yes, it is easy to discern dave's spirit

if any jc's are still reading this

consider understanding rather than judgement
consider softer on others and harder on self
consider gentleness rather than harshness

try and see it from the other person's perspective

consider love rather than law

Quote
apostate

Dave's response:

[i:6d1b9f438f]What're you on, mate? You got a bit carried away there! Lol.[/i:6d1b9f438f]

Have a good laugh Dave. The laughter at the end of the so called moderation of the above railing shows what you really think. We can all see what type of person you REALLY are, and it certainly isn't godly.

Y do you hate Dave so much? Jesus spoke about love? Y cant you reach inside whats left of your soul and dig a bit of love out?

Lotus

You have to understand the reason why cults or non-mainstream religious groups operate.

The governments of the world who are run by Satan encourage religions, cults, sects and non-mainstream religions with tax incentives, less paying tax and a whole bunch of other things that make the church/cults exempt or any religious organizaton exempt from paying tax.

IF YOU TRULY WANT TO HELP THE SITUATION. U MUST HELP THE CHURCH WITH THEIR LUST OF MONEY BY HELPING THEM TAKE AWAY THEIR LUST OF GREED.

MAKE THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD STOP SUPPORTING CHURCHES. And dont give me that crap that they need this and that to help the poor when any wild alley cat can see that the church has investments ranging in the billions.

LEAVE THE CULTS ALONE, if you are not going to address the REAL ISSUE of the CHURCHES then buzzzzzz off!

Another issue is that churches are run by Satan and they have gone against Christs teachings, thus causing an explosion in culs, sects who seek the real truth on God. And if this was not true, then why do we have over 20,000PLUS cults existing all over the world today. 12,000 alone in Africa.

U WANNA STOP CULTS??? U serious about?

Take away the greed of the church (which is impossible) through changing government legislation that makes Churches accountable for their disgusting lusting of wealth.

Did you know Churches now own Car Parks, Rental Buildings, Pizza Places, Restaurants, Laundrettes, shares in casino's, BIG share portfolio's etc.... I mean wake up and smell the roses.... IF Jesus came back today, which there is just no chance, he would throw up....

David Koresh may have been a maniac but he was right about one thing, the purification of the churches is paramount. Until the real issue is addressed within the church about money then as a progressive society we are all DOOMED!

What is one thing that is worse that cults you ask? Churches! They are worse! If you don't address the bigger issue, the little issue will grow bigger than the church... which of note throughout history is getting weaker.

God Bless the Invisible Church of God,

The only perfect church is Gods Church.... the rest is main made evil of self-righteousness. Jesus was perfect... man is not... so its impossible to proclaim the rightous church of god.

Lotus

AKA Al-Antony Jesus Christians

Luk 17:20 ¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

There are some people who may object to hearing the truth about David. They say it doesn't demonstrate love, even when we speak the truth. But it is our love for the Jesus Christians that compels us to tell the truth, no matter how unsavoury it may be to them, Eph.4 tell us...by speaking the truth in a spirit of love, we must grow up in every way Into Christ.

Unfortunately, there are some who are not telling the truth about David as well. Those who let their anger get in the way of sound judgement. They make assumptions or accuse him of things that are defamatory. This of course is wrong and plays into his hands. It makes him stronger in the eyes of his followers and he can dismiss his critics as liars.

The answer lies in obtainig the truth. Think like a detective, what facts do you need to establish a case? If you can't come out with what you know publicity, consider speaking to Centrelink or the Australian Tax Office, both who have fraud hotlines.

A good counter cult ministry that at the very least understands David's scripture twisting is Concerned Growth Ministeries in Australia. Consider letting them know in confidence what you know. Only when a strong case, built with appropriate evidence is put together, will you be able to make an effect on McKay and his group.

American law is different from Australian law. In Australia people can easily sue for defamation, but as I have previously pointed out, it's made harder for the aggrieved party if they already suffer from a bad reputation.

However, the threat of a suit, often forces people to back down and make acts of compensation. We've seen some evidence of that in the past few days on the Jesus Christians website, if the comments there are to be believed.

So what's the answer?

Obtain the evidence, so that you can argue strongly that what you have said is the truth.

Let's look at finances. Who collects the mail, how much comes in from donations on average? Where is the money banked? Who controls the accounts? Is money declared for tax purposes? Can you obtain afidavits from ex members who can say how much is collected each day in literature sales? What are the sales targets anyway, etc?

Obtain the evidence, build your case first and then do the talking.

David's really only a part time cult leader. His first love is his (working for money?) job as author/editor. He delights in using his writing skills againgst people, so in order to make an impression you need to build a strong case.

The summit of ex members may be a start.

Quote
apostate
Bully boy Dave up to his old tricks with the mother of Ashwyn. Note this snippet from his forum.

[i:ac5affa6b8]Anyway, we've asked her to get Nick to contact the ABC and have the lies about me making $200,000 a year deleted from their forum and guest book, and to get Nick to sign the jesuschristian web sites over to us, on the understanding that he will not do this again. If there is any sincerity at all on their part, this should be considered a very generous offer on our part.

Kate has also indicated that she will no longer post on the Rick Ross web site. She says that she has not had direct contact with any of the other posters on that site. We find that a bit hard to believe, considering what others have told us; but we will await further action on her part and on Nick's part before we decide how we will proceed from here.[/i:ac5affa6b8]

Whatever happened to freedom of speech and association? It is obvious in Dave's world there is none. I really feel for these guys. Dave is an absolute bully. It looks like the mother was subjected to a JC in-terror-gation and forced to comply under threat of legal action, but I would not be surprised if it was more an act of desperation to get to see her son.

I assume that you are saying here that people should be free to spread as many lies as they want, but never free to retract them. Sounds like a liberty that could cause more hurt than reconciliation to me.

And if someone wants to take back things that they have admitted are hurtful to others, why would you assume that this could only happen as the result of 'bullying'.

____________________________________________________________

The cynic is one who never sees a good quality in a man and never fails to see a bad one. He is the human owl, vigilant in darkness and blind to light, mousing for vermin, and never seeing noble game. The cynic puts all human actions into two classes - openly bad and secretly bad.
Henry Ward Beecher

Please stop blaming Dave. Its the Churches and Governments fault as I explanied before.

Dave is a great guy who has differencing opinions on doctrines.

What Dave is doing should be commended and loved. He standing up to the system to like jesus did and is being viciously persecuted like Jesus was.

Lotos

Al-Antony Jesus Christian

We should embrace what Dave has to say, if you do the quiz you will know what I mean.

LotusTheHandmaiden:

Dave McKay is not "Jesus," nor is he similar to Jesus.

McKay is instead known as a "cult leader."

That's his reputation, which the press reports repeatedly.

Even though Mr. McKay has repeatedly tried to manipulate the media it has consistently backfired on him.

Apparently McKay thinks if he can manipulate and use his followers, he can somehow do the same with news reporters.

As the old adage goes, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of time."

McKay seems to rely upon the usual cult leader's bag of tricks to get what he wants.

See [www.culteducation.com]

McKay uses a form of intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance.

He also uses an organized peer group

He applies interpersonal pressure to promote conformity

McKay then manipulates the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified

Without these tricks Dave McKay is naked and his manipulation exposed.

Something like the fakery of the "Wizard of OZ" when Dorthy's little dog Toto pulled back the curtain to reveal a pathetic little old man pushing buttons and flipping switches to create an illusion of power and importance.

Dave McKay is little more than a con man, but sadly unlike the typical con man that moves on after running a con, he runs the same scam on the same people day after day and year after year.

The best respons to someone like McKay is to recognize him for what he is and move on.

ashwyn:

You have been blessed with loving parents that only have your best interests at heart.

McKay is using you as he once used his own children, to selfishly promote himself and in an ego driven need for attention.

Eventually, some of the McKay family apparently saw this, and walked away from Dave McKay and his group.

Rather than being Mr. McKay's sock puppet, wouldn't it be better to walk away from the group and prove that you can act independently?

Give yourself a break for a year.

That is, no contact or communication with any "Jesus Christian," including its notorious leader, for one year.

Do you think you can manage to do that?

This would mean trying to think on your own for awhile.

You might like it.

True faith is strong enough to endure without group support or a leader coaching you.

God is everywhere and not restricted to just one group of believers.

And there are true believers everywhere around the earth.

God won't turn away from you if you turn away from Dave McKay.