Facet: I've been absed in ISKCON too, and you don't know diddly about what happened to me. No, I was not born and raised in it, but so what?? I am a victim too, in my own way. All I am trying to really say, facet, is that I am not willing to throw the baby away with the bathwater. It's like I got hurt in an abusive church, but I still consider myself a Christian. Same thing.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You can do this as others and myself have :-) even > though it’s not all pro krsna. Another Straw Man from you, facet. It's never been my agenda here to be either "pro" nor "anti" Krishna per se, nor to preach anything to anybody. It's always been my agenda to present Krishn
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You can keep the scripts, it’s not for me or > anyone else to try to remove unless it is your own > choosing however, it is also not for you to push > on others and apologise for the abuse that came > from it to so many people... > ...Very best to you. People matter, everyone posting > on this t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here's a cool story for you all: I was awarded diksa on the day of Ratha Yatra in a certain American city, some years ago. There was a procession of devotees walking down a certain major thoroughfare in that city. I was among them. We were chanting and all that. We were passing out fruit and candies to the crowd who were lining the streets in that city. There was this one Indian
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thank you, Ian, for your support and kind words. > You have shown much humility in this, what you > have written. > > Until I began reading and trying to understand > Bhagavad-gita As It Is, I too was an atheist. > Prabhupada, through his writings, shook my atheism > and made a theist
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Truth Wins: no hard feelings, I hope?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I just want people coming here to not be afraid they will be bombarded by what they are already used to from being in the cult, which is just the parroted dogma they are likely disillusioned with. Agreed, and I would like the same. Well, IanKoviak, I do not reckon that I am "parroting" anything (in the sense of robotically preaching, as if by rote). I am trying to explain and des
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and everything that goes on it, and he never claimed to be. I am not a fanatical Hare Krishna. I'll just leave it at that. The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > He was raised to believe that the Earth is no more than > 6,000 years old and that every single word of the &g
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: I'd rather be a materialistic atheist than give credence to a god of love that gets thier kicks abusing kids in his most special sanctum. This is a complete misrepresentation and mischaracterization of the truth, Ian. Where does it say in the Vaisnava Scriptures, or in the teachings of the acaryas, that Krishna gets his kicks through abusing kids? Who ever said (or w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak: You remind me of my best friend, in a way (not that I know you personally at all). My best friend was raised in a Bible-based cult. Back in the day, his parents were hardcore fanatical Christians, close disciples of a man named Hobart Freeman. As a child, my best friend was homeschooled through most of his schooling years (this was in the Seventies and early Eighties, long bef
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: > However, I WOULD encourage people in general to a) > take up vegetarianism, and b) to chant the Names > of God according to their tradition. There's a > BIG difference. And I do not hate Prabhupada, > either. The main idea is that "Krishna" is A Name of God, but not THE Name of God. Of course, we hold "Krishna" to be the h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: > It's no wonder people like you have chosen to > water it way down and propose a simple > happy-go-lucky version. The former simply lends > itself to a cultish expression no matter how you > slice it. It's definitely not "universal" and by > any means, nor easy to comprehend, follow and > apply in any meaningful way. > >
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Say Ian: I am describing the mystical forces that drove me to Krishna Consciousness. You are griping about a group and a theology that you do not like, as well as griping about theistic belief in general. For the record: I think ISKCON is a cult too, and I would not encourage people to get very involved with it, in general (at least, not in Dallas). However, I WOULD encourage people in gen
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: > > If you boiled down, distilled Prabhupada's > teachings to just two points, corboy, the sum of > it all is this: a) chant God's Name, according to > your tradition (Allah, Jesus, Christ, Yawweh, > Jehovah, or what have you) and b) stop eating > meat. That's really about it. This is "Krishna > Consciousness". &g
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here's another couple of quotes: "Just like the Muslims call Him Allah, the Jews call Him Jehovah, or somebody calls Him something else. That doesn't matter. If you think that 'Why should I chant the Indian name Krishna, Sanskrit name Krishna?' So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says that there are millions and billions of names of God. If you think that this Krishna name is not
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

corboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Whirlwind, I think I understand your concerns and > no, even.if you could tell all and remain safe, > I'd not think you crazy. > > I've been through some bad shit myself. People > would think me crazy. > > The worst abuses happen when a group has > successfully established a pi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: > > Your above quotes about Bhaktivedanta saying that > you can chant this or that name of god from > assorted traditions to equal effect is called > pandering. He didn't believe that nor do his > scriptures. Ian, you are entitled to your views and I respect your position. However, you misrepresented Prabhupada, as well as the philosophy he taught
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: > > Your above quotes about Bhaktivedanta saying that > you can chant this or that name of god from > assorted traditions to equal effect is called > pandering. He didn't believe that nor do his > scriptures. That's not true. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.6, and Bhagavad-gita 18:66 (to name just two examples), for example, bear this out. There are
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"'THE WORLD STANDS IN NO NEED OF ANY REFORMER. The world has a very competent person for guiding its minutest happenings. The person who determines that there is scope for reform of the world, himself stands in need of reform. The world goes on in its own perfect way. No person can deflect it even the breadth of a hair from the course chalked out for it by providence. 'When we p
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As an aside, most devotees I know are nice folks > and genuinely sincere and as far as cults go, I > think it's become more mainstream like Morman's to > the effect that many practice it outside the > temple/ashram structure which is often where a lot > of the cult aspects are more prone
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thank you, Ian, for your support and kind words. You have shown much humility in this, what you have written. Until I began reading and trying to understand Bhagavad-gita As It Is, I too was an atheist. Prabhupada, through his writings, shook my atheism and made a theist out of me. That is the "mystical force" which drove me to Krishna Consciousness. That is a true story, and is m
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The stuff I know that could get me hurt or worse is not illegal (and it's not a mandated reporting matter, either) so it's not THAT terribly bad. But it's grossly unethical in nature, would damage the reputation of a certain prominent ISKCON guru if made public knowledge, and would embarrass the hell out of certain people. Internally, it's not a secret at all and I've t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak, corboy: I got screwed around so badly by some of these ISKCON cultists that if I told you what happened, then you probably would not believe me. It's THAT crazy. Someday, when my circumstances are different, I will write about it publicly but for now I cannot, since I would fear for my safety if I were to do so. It's not cowardice on my part, it's just smart of me. I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here's a question for you, IanKoviak: say you knew somebody who was sexually abused as a child by a Catholic priest, but this person still considered himself to be a Catholic. Would you tell him that if he were to defend the basic tenets of the Catholic faith, that he was in fact defending abuse and abusers? Would you encourage this person to stop believing on Jesus, and/or stop reading his
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anybody who says that I am here to act as a troll can kiss my ass, corboy. I do not defend these people or their abuses for a moment.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anybody who says that I am here to act as a troll can kiss my ass, corboy. I do not defend these people or their abuses for a moment.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: > Anyway, you're in the wrong place if your defense > for this cult is copy and pasting prabhupada > quotes. I can paste some of those too and they > ain't pretty. ...and speaking of logical fallacies, IanKoviac, you just committed the "Straw Man" fallacy. I never defended "the cult" and in fact I made it very clear that I do no
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect > to the material world and all that goes on in it, > and he never claimed to be. > > Just because he had some opinion about this, that, > or the other matter pertaining to the material > world and what goes on in it, this does not m
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and all that goes on in it, and he never claimed to be. Just because he had some opinion about this, that, or the other matter pertaining to the material world and what goes on in it, this does not mean that I have to conform my opinion to his. This does not mean that I have to conform all of my opinions about any given topi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yadda yadda yadda. Facet does not know what facet is talking about. This is called the "Cult Education Forum", not the "Ex-members support group forum", nor the "Make groups you do not like look bad forum", nor the "Preachy atheists who believe that anybody who believes in God is in a cult forum". IanKoviak Wrote: > Anyway, you're in th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"