facet Wrote: "The book has been intentionally placed there by an adherent. It is no mystical force." The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here's a question for you, facet: say you knew > somebody who had a bad experience in an abusive > church, but this person who still considered > himself to be a Christian. Would you
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From SSR, Chapter Four: 'Yes—in the animal kingdom. But the civilized human being, the religious human being, is not meant to kill and eat animals. If you stop killing animals and chant the holy name Christ, everything will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but only to request you to please chant the name of God. The Bible also demands this of you. So let’s kindly cooperate and ch
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

PS: Speaking of "Science of Self-Realization" (SSR), facet, you have once again proven your ignorance of what Prabhupada actually taught. Have you ever actually read "Science of Self-Realization", facet? I doubt if you have (but, I myself have). If you had read that book, then you'd already know that Chapter Four explains and outlines the truly non-sectarian nature of K
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > We defend what we love, but to believe that > attempts by people to manipulate that for > deceptive means is a foolish folly. > > Even loving an abuser, they are walked away from > and discredited all the same. To defend abuse is > abuse. Fact. Facet: I made it clear that I do not for a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > PS: Prabhupada never said that one has to take an > ISKCON guru, a Science of Identity guru, or even a > Vaisnava guru, corboy. Prabhupada said that one > must take a LIVING guru, who comes in a bona fide > line of disciplic succession. The only two > criteria are that guru must a) be living
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Christian religion teaches > God-consciousness. Jesus Christ preached > God-consciousness. He represented himself as a son > of God. So we agree to this principle. There is no > controversy. Yes. Anyone who teaches > God-consciousness, we agree with the principle. > Muhammad also, he
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Christian religion teaches God-consciousness. Jesus Christ preached God-consciousness. He represented himself as a son of God. So we agree to this principle. There is no controversy. Yes. Anyone who teaches God-consciousness, we agree with the principle. Muhammad also, he preached God-consciousness. So we welcome. There may be some difference in the process. That does not matter. But we tes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To whom it may concern: I do not personally believe that ISKCON is Prabhupada's body (in a manner similar to the relationship Lord Jesus shares with His Church). The reason for this is that there is no recorded instance of Prabhupada having expressed that idea, and it's not written in any of his books. I reckon that if Prabhupada wanted devotees to believe that ISKCON is his mystical bo
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > PS: Prabhupada never said that one has to take an > ISKCON guru, a Science of Identity guru, or even a > Vaisnava guru, corboy. Prabhupada said that one > must take a LIVING guru, who comes in a bona fide > line of disciplic succession. The only two > criteria are that guru must a) be living
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

No hard feelings I hope, Truth Wins?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > The Whirlwind, I also respect that your faith is > something very dear to your heart, as you > demonstrate. It is love. Perhaps not a benefit on > this forum as it is discussing the other side of > things so to speak and I appreciate that some of > the things that you see written up here may tou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Truth Wins: I've been lurking on these forums for some time now, and I read a lot about what others have to say about Krishna Consciousness and those who preach it. Sometimes, some of the things that others have to say about "the Hare Krishnas" are just not factual and/or is based on outdated information coming from people who left the Hare Krishnas a long time ago. For exampl
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The name of this thread is "The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness", not "The mystical forces that drove ME to Krishna Consciousness". I am explaining the mystical forces that drove ME to Krishna Consciousness, since I am one of "us". What is the problem, Truth Wins? The first time I heard the maha-mantra being chanted, I was an athei
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy: In my estimation (and to put it in some of the simplest terms possible): "Krishna Consciousness" is a form of Unitarian Universalism, which originated (in historical and secular terms) in medieval India. That's the most basic way I could explain sanatana-dharma philosophy to others, in a nutshell.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

IanKoviak Wrote: > > all that aside, I agree with you, people should > find inspiration and spiritual guidance in the > guru tattva principle, not a specific personage or > lineage. The "living" part is also subjective > considering many devotees hardly spent much time > with Bhaktivedanta in person and most followers > these days are not associating wit
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

PS: Prabhupada never said that one has to take an ISKCON guru, a Science of Identity guru, or even a Vaisnava guru, corboy. Prabhupada said that one must take a LIVING guru, who comes in a bona fide line of disciplic succession. The only two criteria are that guru must a) be living and b) be from a bona fide lineage. Guru does not necessarily even need to be a Hare Krsna (or a Vaisnava) of any
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Truth wins Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Sciense of Identity teaches Krishna > Consciousness. They do not teach Scientology. "Krishna Consciousness" is not limited to any organization, institution, or tradition of human origin. Neither is guru. No one organization or institution has a monopoly on "Krishna Consciousness" and
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

PS: this is a very important point, so I will repeat it...Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and all that goes on in it, and he never claimed to be.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Iskcon has created its own bad reputation." You got that right. ISKCON brought it on itself. I think I've made my opinion of ISKCON clear here, and am hardly an apologist for them. It's pretty much a Hindu cult. And with that, Truth Wins, I bid you a good day. Peace be with you. vancha-kalpatarubhyash cha kripa-sindhubhya eva cha patitanam pavanebhyo vaishna
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

PS, Truth Wins: if I am "attacking" anybody, then it would be facet, who asks questions which reveal a real ignorance of the matters at hand, and who seems to be here only to make Krishna Consciousness (and those who preach it) look and sound bad. But even then, it's not a "personal attack" against facet, not an "ad hominem" attack. For it to be an ad hominem
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Truth Wins, I have not "attacked" you, personally or otherwise. I do not know you, or anything about you other than your experiences in your old group. I even said that I do not blame you for feeling hard done by. The name of this thread it "The mystical forces that drove some of us to Krishna Consciousness" and not "The mystical forces that drove some of us to Sci
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here is a quote from a longer read via the > following link: > > > > It demonstrates well the scale of abuse and how it > has been passed down the line straight from the > top. > > It may have already been quoted in one of the > other threads. > > Take care when reading
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > QuoteYou make it all sound so sinister, > facet. > > > > Merely sharing the experience from this point, it > doesn’t sound sinister.. it is sinister. That is > the reality. That's your opinion, and it's not a very qualified one, either. Meaning no disrespect.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

facet Wrote: > > Why are the pretty books simply not on a drop down > menu and pumped out free via the web? If it’s just > word? No offense, but this was just a ridiculous question. Anybody who knows the first thing about the Hare Krishnas in the 21st century, would already know that all of the books are online, free for the taking. It's obvious (to me, at least) th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Truth wins Wrote: > This forum is mostly here to expose the > destructive sides of groups as well as > narcissistic type, misleading leaders. > Arguing about philosophy and beliefs lead > absolutely nowhere. > It is truly liberating to just honor where we > stand and let others do the same when it comes to > their journeys. > Honor your own path and whatever
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Whirlwind Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Facet, I hear ya. I am hardly trying to act as > some kind of apologist here. However: I do chant > every day, and am a vegetarian. These things are > part of my life and are very much a part of my > personal spirituality, and I'd recommend them to > just about anybody. For my own part
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Likewise, facet, thank you very much. Personally, I find these practices to be helpful in more ways than one, and I believe in a Personal God. But that's just me, and my experience. Others' experiences and beliefs are, of course, different and I respect that.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Facet, I hear ya. I am hardly trying to act as some kind of apologist here. However: I do chant every day, and am a vegetarian. These things are part of my life and are very much a part of my personal spirituality, and I'd recommend them to just about anybody. For my own part, I have little to do with mainstream ISKCON and (once again) regard it as (pretty much) a quasi-Hindu cult. And
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Now, facet, that's not to say that the local temple where I live is not without its abuses. In their way, the management of it is quite abusive and almost completely lacking in meaningful accountability. I hate to say it, but it's definitely a Hindu cult. They assemble and distribute files, dossiers on devotees who they've targeted for abuse (the management in Dallas, I mean).
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Why are the pretty books simply not on a drop down menu and pumped out free via the web? If it’s just word? Targets must be spotted, and chosen. It is not the other way around. They are free via the web, every single one of them. Obviously you are not familiar with the Vedabase. Every single word that Prabhupada published is right there on the Web, free for the taking. What planet have you
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"