Even when it was business as usual for the Jesus Christians, I felt a constant need to be judging myself, to be sure that I was not abusing my role as leader. David Mckay NO David.....with the caveat that you tolerated those who obeyed you on demand, and behaved "pleasantly" enough to those who kept you with their own labour, otherwise you ABSOLUTELY abused your role as lead
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

An interesting observation on the (genuine) Apostle Pauls part....an "any press is "good" press" take on wider circumstances..... Speaking of "bad press" however....by utter chance, while browsing through a book store the other day, I chanced upon Jon Ronson's "Out of the Ordinary"....the very volume with the little episode concerning the JesusChri
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The entire "Stanford Address" was a very inspiring passage of thought, I however take particular note of Mr Job's comments, that: Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma -- which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inne
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I feel as though there were some genuine "good times" mixed up in the (occasionally) "good old days".....those episodes obviously gradually petered out. This is an interesting remark...an observation McKay claims that he made about himself in 1967... I could not answer that one except to say that I would have to accept what others were saying, i.e. that I was deluded, an
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The path of righteousness.....yes difficult for one to walk with consistency ..... ...perhaps akin to a camel inadvertently blundering through the eye of a needle.... someone like McKay though, who sets out to TURN AWAY those he can persuade, from the "path of righteousness", (however you may define it) would then seem unlikely to regard the said path with much genuine resp
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

One day, sure enough....there'll be a "dead Dave"....his former flock probably now, closer than ever to psychologically "disowning" him, as they grow more independent of his tutelage...and old "Rumplestiltskin" growing ever more delusional in his self justifying, white-washing of the past.... ....the deliberate employment of pejorative terms such as "kid
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

While Chris Butler's odious outfit, seems far more patently venal and opportunistic than the JesusChristians, do the discussions on the Chris Butler thread re the "Dharma Farms" in Hawaii remind you at all of what may well have been the recruiting strategy behind the JC Kenyan operation?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That was certainly an interesting read about the "splitting"...thank you Zeuszor! I would like to discuss that at more length, in a future posting.... If you'll permit me to make note of a tangential observation in the meantime though, I see that "Dappled Light" has been the sole contribution to the McKay "soap box", almost 11 months following (what I take to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I am very heartened to see by the abysmmally low "calibre" of thought that ongoing David Worship (referencing McKay directly and faithfully regurgitating his idea's, as an "exercise" in exegesis) necessarily engenders in any individual, that the graduates will no doubt completely fail to win a convert (forsaking all to them and working voluntarily to "spread the word
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hmmm....thank you Apostate! Quite an impressive memory you have there... Well we DO certainly know what David claimed then....I'd be interested in hearing Jame's and Ufuoma's side of things (alternatively, the account of any of the existing members in the JC's at the time of this "donation"....I've no doubt McKay would have bragged off his "generosity"
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

$10,000!?!....that would be a first! Given how McKay defrauded the community in Aust. out of $30,000 at the time of separation in '96. Money is "power" and McKay loves power....hence he knows he needs to have his paws all over the filty lucre in the community's keeping! Are you sure it wasn't 10,000 cents, Apollo? (i.e. A hundred dollars!) I'm glad to hear t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I wonder if Ufoma was later blamed for "losing" you.....(disrupting the unity of the witness....we are all of "one mind" in Christ Jesus don't you know, Zeuszor......hence there is nothing Ufoma could say that Fran would not be able to say....only better, being the spiritual leading with McKay's blessing....Ufoma was inadvertently usurping his authority...a habit tha
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ahhh....! Fran faithfully imitating McKay then....Ufoma clearly not a designated leader and hence should not as much as even ("disrespectfully")initiate conversation...Yes, that sounds sick enough to be them!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Was the good Fran kind enough to detail exactly what it was that Ufoma COULD NOT talk about....? (...always interesting to what constitutes a topic of "sensitivity" for them....)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thank you for picking the "article" up so quickly, Apollo! Again, you yet again prove to be very sharp...!!! ....this is of course, a rehash of McKay's efforts to establish "credibility" for himself, by prostituting a "social cause" (Freeganism) for the purposes of drawing attention to himself....(thank you for the earlier National Geographic coverage, that y
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That IS a very interesting hypothesis, about individuals subconsciously "recreating" roles for themselves.....! Jung's archetypes revisited? I agree with you that I would have much prefered to have seen formal charges and sentencing....as the inability to press charges, only enables further "David McKay's" to operate, all over again......the current "David M
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Another gentleman who once posted on this site, has observed that the manner in which one leaves the JC's (or other cult like situations)...greatly impacts on the "impressions" one retains of the experience....I endeavour to (and encourage others to) remain as positive as possible about the influences God may have been able to bear on ones life (Romans 8:28 "And we know that a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Friends in any sense? I was never close to Cherry and can't help but be pleased at the shell of a human she has become, forever repressing herself in order to avoid conflict with her husband....until really she has simply committed psychological suicide. David and I were very close for the first couple of months in the JC's...but it eventually "unravelled" as I failed to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The most consistent, though unsubstantiated, claim against the Jesus Christians was always that parents were being treated unkindly. However, even in the most extreme case, where a Jesus Christian was almost killed in a murderous assault, the core of the complaint was that a 17 year old boy started calling his parents by their first names, instead of calling them Mom and Dad How was hyper hy
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There are a couple of (historical) "nice things" that might be observed.....however "bad things" are all that come to mind, these days.... When McKay writes; The most consistent, though unsubstantiated, claim against the Jesus Christians was always that parents were being treated unkindly. However, even in the most extreme case, where a Jesus Christian was almost killed
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It would be like Patty Hearst's kidnappers, glibly claiming that they selflessly offered the young lady, services of "parental substitution".....
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This clearly shows that cults are not just a magnet for those seeking spiritual shelter from the darkness of this world, but also attract perverts, criminals and other predatory characters that are motivated to prey upon the former who are encouraged by the leaders and the cults themselves to be more open, to let their guards down or to let go wherever the spiritual guidance leads them to, thus b
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thank you for the all information here, Zeuszor....evidentiary issues appear to frequently stymie prosecution in a number of cases.....cults, to my mind, need to be subject to the same quality of policing resources that organized crime merits.....as they are effectively the same thing.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

May I ask Zeuszor what you perceive as the reasons for the decline of figures like "Yoneq" or "Roberts".....in the end what do you think led to the demise of their empires....I'd be interested to compare their fates with McKay (who I think has simply "aborted" his still born empire.....those in it, being no more than "things" that he just tossed aside
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I read on the ex Family forum he said he wouldn't dare suggest David Berg has gone to hell. But of course, he WOULD suggest as much about any individual who has either escaped his clutches or had the temerity to critique him... ...the self-centered psychosis through which he "interprets" the world, thus becoming quite clear to an external observor of his antics.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To deny Berg, was a sexual predator, would be disingenuously implicate himself (hence he "tiptoes" around the issue by either refusing to come to the point or by pointedly implying that no one dare make such "accusations" without hypocritcally defiling themselves....i.e. strategies of avoidance or projection): To concur Berg, was a sexual predator, begs the question, why th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

hmpff....MUCH better (and far more pleasing to the eye)....than those motely spice girls....! No postings on "UK Listeners" then.....? If they fail to "preach McKay" as they were purposely taught all these years.... I can think of one lonely old man, who'll be bitterly dissapointed....and who'll be desperately "rationalizing" it all away, as best
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Surprise surprise eh? He was online last night but failed to post. My God! ...you're sharp Apollo!! Most impressive!!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Oh! ..... something "up to date".... so you must love the new chart music here....then! the superlative dance routines and eye-candy of "K-Pop" (Korean popular) say, Apollo!! Something that might test the lonely foot soldiers in McKay's virgin army of 144,000 (um.....14,400....No, not quite? 1, 440 then...if not...well....144??....How about 14.4?)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The fact that you haven't heard of Donovan tells the world that you're far younger than I (or Zeuszor?) Apollo! (.....although I think that there have been quite a few cover versions, some fairly recent of this little number.....you know none of them??) ...if you don't get a reply (to what David would see as a "loaded question"....anything that requires any de
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"