QuoteThis is how karma works for false gurus. Ah Gaudiya, it has been said that Bhaktisiddhanta was given poison and locked in a room. So by your own logic he is another false guru. Bhaktivedanta was poisoned over many months and treated very badly so he is a false guru and this is their karma. I find it strange when devotees (ACB down) claim that another person is such a great devotee i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Siddhavarupananda stated in Sai Speaks that he was experienced in many forms of yoga. These yoga methods were (as research on several gurus shows) throughout Hawaii so he could easily make the claim of seasoned traveller of the spiritual realms - hatha yoga, raja yoga, kriya yoga, Nidra yoga, kundalini. He mentions meeting various Swami's and zennists. According to Sai speaks he wrote Si
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotejust-googling:D I suppose their last straw final counterargument would be that the moon and Rahu may appear the same to our eyes but they are both in different dimensions... that the Moon may be more distant than the Sun in spiritual miles rather than material miles ??? ... that it is not possible to reach the Moon with material spaceships in the same way that one cannot build a stairway
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotejust-googlingThanks for the beautiful photo of the Moon, emntk! Awesome! Yes, if the moon was further in distance than the Sun, there would be no phases of the moon (i.e. new, crescent, quarter, gibbous, etc) ... But their thinking may go on like this: "This is not the Moon that we see with our eyes, but Rahu!" If so, then why do they themselves call it the Moon??? Th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Repost of message due to large image size: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I concur with cultreporter that there is no issue with others. I was very specific not to state any other than ACB teaches this and yes he takes all that is stated in the scriptures to be literally true. Siddha's group also teaches the same despite how little
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I concur with cultreporter that there is no issue with others. I was very specific not to state any other than ACB teaches this and yes he takes all that is stated in the scriptures to be literally true. Siddha's group also teaches the same despite how little Siddha may speak on this issue. Many of his disciples and students believe the Rahu eclipse story as fact and I have witnessed RKd bei
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Lunar eclipse The lunar eclipse is another one. Which happens 2-4 times per year although often it is not visible with the naked eye. You will notice that the lunar eclipse usually occurs once every 176-177 days which is equal to six orbits of the earth. Penumbral eclipses can occur three or four times a year but these are not visible with the naked eye. The total eclipse only occurs twice a y
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

All in Siddha's group and anyone else coming in the (His Divine Grace) ACB line: I'm sorry to break it to you but you are following a false guru because A.C. Bhaktivedanta stated that during... ...a SOLAR ECLIPSE it's not the MOON eclipsing the SUN: ~AS~ the MOON is supposedly a FURTHER distance from the EARTH than the SUN. ~THAT~ it is actually a planet called
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Harver Cohen (intiated as Haridasa in Jan 67) an artist who had offered ACB the artist's loft in NY early 1966, shortly after his arrival in the US, had become a regular visitor, like Allen Ginsberg, at ACB's chants held in his home and later in the shop front. Also like Ginsberg he had travelled to San Francisco at some point in later 1966 and Cohen had plans to open the SF RKd temple.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

So umm.. These eleven discipls/Ritviks (Initiating disciples) were all involved in corrupt behaviors. This does not instill one with faith that ACB was a pure devotee, given that he appointed such degraded men into such an important role, and then these men took this role to suggest that they are bona-fide gurus. Then you have Jayapataka Swami, Tamal Krishna Goswami, Bhavanda Goswami, Bha
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Oh! There was no order from Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa to mess with Cara's personal life. But you said it was a direct order from Chris. How am I to make up my mind whether you were lying then or later. Just like when a person joins SOI on a lie only to be told some other truth later. How is a person to know which is the real lie? Perhaps they are all lies, some are half truths and some
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Timothy Leary may have had a connection with CB's father or grand father as Leary was a psychiatrist doing studies on LSD and also believed the drug to be a cure for alcoholism. The Butler's thought marijuana to be a cure for alcoholism. Timothy Leary Like Willis Butler Jnr. attempted to legalize marijuana. He had been to India several times and studied hinduism and had become
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ACB in sept 1965 moved to the US and by dec artist Harvey Cohen (who became one of his disciples) had found him an artist studio appartment in the hippy area and ACB started holding chants for the local lsd users. During the next year he had a shop front where he held chants 3 times weekly where Allen Ginsberg (LSD advocate) was a regular member who came and played a musical instrument. He also b
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well according to Sai/Siddha you can ask Jesus to take your sins but not as a repeated weekly thing. It is meant to be a serious decision to change your sinful life rather than get away with begin a regular materialist at Jesus's expense. Jesus apparently walked on water though and Butler needs a surf board to do that. :P ...And Bhaktivedanta was an 80 year old man and he had over fo
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You are too much RK das, I thought you were too imperfect to be speaking for your guru but here you are again. Don't stop I find your posts amusing. Your assertion that your beleifs are just that 'beliefs', contradicts your own spiritual master again. I won't try to impose YOUR beleifs onto YOU but you know what the teachings say about contradicting your own spiritual ma
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteI hope Cara is okay, this post seems really strange and there is nothing on her website now, either... Did some SIF storm troopers storm the fortress and hijack her computer? Yo, Cara! DON'T DO IT! Whatever is going on right now, your best bet is KICK HIM IN THE BALLS AND RUN! Just kick your way through as many balls as you have to and get the hell outta there. RUN! I think C
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well I'd been waiting a while now for this topic. It is scarcely suprising that this highly contentious issue has been discussed as regularly and repeatedly as Maui claims. It would take a lifetime to excuse the fact that at least over 1/3 of disciples given the position of representing their spiritual master and initiating other disciples would be engaged in activities such as murder, ch
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Maui has bidden a hasty retreat from the other thread after making the requisite excuses pardoning ACB for anything that his disciples have done. Rama who was raised in SOI has made similar statements to the ones which Cara has made as have several other posters who are people that were actually there, which you admit you were not. You have not attacked them :? I have had years of associ
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotemaui That statement was written in 1978 and is no longer accepted by ISKCON. In the mid 1980's ISKCON underwent a "guru reform" period and they rejected their previous interpretation outlined in that paper. They called it a big mistake and they changed the system. That list is not in any type of order that is supposed to show closeness to ACBS, it wasn't written by ACBS a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotecultreporterThey would love to discredit me. I tend to agree that Maui seems to be playing a game in order to cast doubt on your research. It may also appear that he may be attempting to cast doubt on your well researched veiws on SOI also. We only have the word of Maui that none of the suspicious information about ACB is true so I would like to question some of the information that
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Maui, I find it interesting that you claim that Tamal and Kirtananda were not close disciples of Bhaktivedanta Swami when in June 1977 they ranked numbers 1 and 3 a mere 9 months before he departed ('passed away' in common language). So are you saying that these two were thrown out of ISKCON during this 9 month period for child abuse or other inappropriate behaviors? Bhavanda w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I've been interested in the Hare Krishna movement myself in it's authenticity since Cara mentioned a few things to me. Others on this forum have made comments about ACB's behavior and as Siddha is not above reproach neither is anyone else. Apparently he was also poisoned by his own disciples. It is all well and good for you to say that he was an 80 year old man (Although that seems
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This also maybe why he disagreed with his spiritual master that a person's sexual preference was relevant. Any form of sexuality is a form of material attachment. Sex for procreation does not require attachment but homosexual sex is a purely a material attachment by this logic. Therefore following Tukarama's teaching any relationship in the SOI cult must be heterosexual and non-sexual o
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotemauiTukarama was not teaching the exact same thing as Chaitanya, the main difference was that Chaitanya stressed more the relationship of romantic love of god whereas Tukarama did not. But these are very esoteric points, in truth there was little difference. It appears these esoteric points are the key to Butler's Cult being so harmful. Tukarama taught leading a highly austere life a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Butler's teaching are surprisingly similar today as in the Sai days. It is not difficult to see why he burned these books given the immaturity of his philosophy. The difinition of a spiritual master is not based on being God's representative which he is now that he is in disciplic succession and this book suggests that he might have only sought initiation to claim the title of bona-fide
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotezelig BULLSEYE emntk! All the facts match up. Molokai childhood. Oh great to hear! I thought I'd lost it on the Molokai detail. There is also a Bruce Butler who works in local politics Oahu. He also is quite the scientist. Does anyone know if he worked in a scientific field? Quotejust-googlingHow do you get all this info?? Actually this pdf file I have been trying to open f
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotezelig BULLSEYE emntk! All the facts match up. Molokai childhood. Oh great to hear! I thought I'd lost it on the Molokai detail. There is also a Bruce Butler who works in local politics Oahu. He also is quite the scientist. Does anyone know if he worked in a scientific field? Quotejust-googlingHow do you get all this info?? Actually this pdf file I have been trying to open f
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

http://honoluluweekly.com/wp-content/042606bookbarb.jpg There is quite a resemblance to Chris in Barbara although A book review stated they were raising 4 children although not sure if they were all their own. hmmm..?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Dr. Willis Butler Jnr (Physician, Activist, Author) had lived on Molokai and currently lives back in Kailua Oahu if he is still alive. He was alive at 87 in April 2006 so some of the dates Cara posted had refered to Willis P. Butler Snr. He also took the US of A to court for disallowing a peaceul protest when Nixon visited Hawaii. In this newsletter there are three photos of him. It men
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It still is circumstanstial at the moment but there is a Willis Butler senior and one would suppose Willis Butler junior must follow. Some of the dates in Cara's last post may refer to WB snr especially around the 1920's giving 60 years between the birth of Dr. WB snr and C butler. Enough time for a second generation of Dr. WB jnr. There is not a lot of information to go on atm but we w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"