Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
maui
()
Date: January 05, 2007 10:00AM
Quote
cultreporter
What you say about PADA may well be true, although it seems quite well funded for one person. Perhaps he is rich. If I had the resources he has to publish a regular magazine and send it free all over the world (and I know this is true because I have received stuff from them) I would be a lot more active.
Are you sure it's from PADA? I don't recall him having a regular magazine, I know he has an online newsletter. The IRM (anti gbc people) had/has a magazine called "Back to Prabhupada" which they give away through the mail. But maybe Pada was mailing something at some time. But yes PADA is one person, there are people who support him but it is not an actual organization.
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[b:fc655c1c78]If you know such details of Siddha's history with ISKCON then I wish that you would post them.[/b:fc655c1c78] I know that it is Siddha's claim that he left in 1978, and I don't take his word for it, but there has been no information for me to disprove it either. What I was told by one of his former disciples was that he was offerred the co-GBC appointment but did not take it. I have seen minutes from a GBC meeting sugguesting that he be offerred a position, but no follow up information about it as yet. That Tamal threatened him is an elusive rumor and if you were there and privy to a lot of information then I would like to know what you know if anything about the temple sale/s and the story that Siddha fell down with his secretary and had to marry her. I know he had the Hawaiian temple so what happened to it when he left? Do you know who took it over and maybe I can verify with them if they are still living. Do you know or the existence or have any copy of formal records to that effect? Can you name any close associates of Siddha or any dedicated critics of him within ISKCON?
Siddha had a lot of problems with ISKCON. In 1976 he was appointed co-gbc of Hawaii and Japan with Gurukripa Swami. That was when Siddha left, so he never really got to be gbc even though he was appointed, by ACBS. By that time Siddha was getting ready to leave for a few years. In fact in 1973 he left for awhile. Here is a letter from ACBS from 1973
"I have not heard from Tusta Krishna or Siddha-Svarupa Goswamis nor do I know anything of their plans to return to New Zealand. Try to convince them to return to our Society and work co-operatively. That they have gone away is not good thing and it is a deviation from our line of parampara. Rather, avoiding faultfinding and anarchy, they should keep our standard and work maturely and not cause factions and splitting. I am not at all pleased at what they have done."
(to Madhudvisa, 73-12-15)
"News has come to me that you want to sell our temple to somebody else which I cannot believe. Even that you have been in charge of the New Zealand centre, now you have taken it as your personal property and you have demanded from Madhudvisa Swami the price of the temple. This is all amazing to me. I do not know what is your decision. Tusta Krishna has already left and is in Hawaii with Siddha Svarupananda Maharaja. I never believed that again you would go back to your old habits, giving up the Krishna Consciousness Movement in a whimsical way. Please do not do this mistake [...] Now all of a sudden you have changed that program and taken to your original ways? I am so much aggrieved to receive all this news. For Krishna's sake, do not do these things. I request Tusta Krishna to go back to New Zealand and take charge of your duties. Please do not leave Krishna. You will not be happy. That is my request."
( to Tusta Krishna and Beharilal, 73-10-15)
"So far I have studied Siddhasvarupa, he is not a bad boy, but he has his own philosophy, from the very beginning."
(to Paramahamsa, 75-07-16)
There is some more, specifically a recorded room conversation by ACBS in may 1976 in honolulu about Siddha leaving ISKCON. I couldn'r find it online. I have heard that he was threatened by Tamal Krishna and possbily also Gurukripa Swami who was the more likely type of person to threaten someone being that he was a a thug and many people were physically afraid of him. I had no personal experience with Siddha because I joined after he had left. He left in the first part of 1976 and I joined in december 1977, less then a month after ACBS had died. I was told about Siddha at that time because for a short while he was a hot topic of conversation where I was (hawaii and california) because he was the first and only disciple of ACBS to start his own organization and take disciples during the time ACBS was still alive.
Siddha ddin't own the ISKCON temple. In 1974 Ambarisa Das (Alfred Ford) said he was going to purchase an estate in honoloulu for a new temple. I am not exactly sure when that was done, but he did buy a mansion with large grounds in an exclusive neighborhood, ACBS spent a lot of time there working on his books. That is still the temple today. There are lots of people who know Siddha who can answer your questions there are various forums and blogs, just search google for gaudiya or hare krishna blogs and forums.
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Also I am curious as to what are the origins of the chants that Siddha's followers chant as I have not heard them anywhere else. Are they traditional or did he make them up himself?
(Please excuse that my Vedic spelling is not very good. When I am not sure of a word I have tried to write it phoenetically.) If you can correct the spelling or translate the words for an article I am writing I would appreciate it (PM or email if you prefer)
Namo Om Vishnu Padaya Krishna Presthaya Bhutale
Srimate Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa Iti Namine
That is the guru pranama mantra. It is what is chanted in ISKCON and in the gaudiya math organizations by many people. He simply changed the name of the guru. It is what you are supposed to chant once when bowing to the diety or to your guru or sometimes for other reasons. Many guru in ISKCON have done the same thing
This is what ACBS's disicples would say
nama om vishnu-padaya krishna-preshthaya bhu-tale
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namas te saraswate deve gaura-vani-pracarine
nirvishesha-shunyavadi-pashchatya-desha-tarine
I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krishna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet. Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Chaitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.
The other mantra is this
sri-krishna-chaitanya
prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara
srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda
I offer my obeisances to Sri Krishna Chaitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Sri Advaita, Gadadhara, Srivasa and all others in the line of devotion.
That is chanted in kirtans and also when giving pranams.
[blog.myspace.com]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
maui
()
Date: January 05, 2007 10:13AM
Quote
emntkQuote
cultreporter
They would love to discredit me.
I tend to agree that Maui seems to be playing a game in order to cast doubt on your research. It may also appear that he may be attempting to cast doubt on your well researched veiws on SOI also.
We only have the word of Maui that none of the suspicious information about ACB is true so I would like to question some of the information that Maui has offered on another thread that is more relevant to the ACB topic. So Maui I direct you to continue this conversation on the thread titled 'Hare Krishna' and my post is located here:
[board.culteducation.com]
That is ridiculous. Go back to all my posts and see what I have said about Siddha. My point about credibility is that while cara may not think Siddhas followers believe themselves to be also followers of ACBS, I know that is not the case from my dealings with them. I was never in the group but I had a roomate who was a member and I knew members from going to some of their public programs. They definitely see themselves as gaudiya vaishnavas with ACBS as a major inspiration. What cara has done is made a lot of mistakes and my point was that the long time followers of Siddha will spot those mistakes right off, as any long time gaudiya vaishnava will as well. If she and you want to be effective in your truth telling about Siddha you have to make sure that what you say about common knowledge amongst devotees on ACBS and ISKCON isn't wrong consistenly, otherwise you lose credibility as an unbiased voice and will come across as biased against their belief system and as someone who is not being objective, and therefore not to be taken as a credible critic of Siddha. Of course if you persist with this fantasy of me trying to help Siddha because of pointing out your mistakes, then by following your bruised egos you can only harm your own cause. Is your cause to trash ACBS or is to expose Siddha? Or is it to convince us that you are spiritually superior to me or anyone who disagrees with you? Get your priorities straight.
[blog.myspace.com]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 05, 2007 12:01PM
Quote
mauiQuote
That is ridiculous. Go back to all my posts and see what I have said about Siddha. My point about credibility is that while cara may not think Siddhas followers believe themselves to be also followers of ACBS, I know that is not the case from my dealings with them. I was never in the group but I had a roomate who was a member and I knew members from going to some of their public programs. They definitely see themselves as gaudiya vaishnavas with ACBS as a major inspiration. What cara has done is made a lot of mistakes and my point was that the long time followers of Siddha will spot those mistakes right off, as any long time gaudiya vaishnava will as well. If she and you want to be effective in your truth telling about Siddha you have to make sure that what you say about common knowledge amongst devotees on ACBS and ISKCON isn't wrong consistenly, otherwise you lose credibility as an unbiased voice and will come across as biased against their belief system and as someone who is not being objective, and therefore not to be taken as a credible critic of Siddha. Of course if you persist with this fantasy of me trying to help Siddha because of pointing out your mistakes, then by following your bruised egos you can only harm your own cause. Is your cause to trash ACBS or is to expose Siddha? Or is it to convince us that you are spiritually superior to me or anyone who disagrees with you? Get your priorities straight.
Who on earth do you think you are? How dare you accuse anyone of being unobjective when it is you that bows down to ACB as if he is a god the initiator of child molestors and drug runners among other immoral scum? You can make excuses all you like he founded ISKCON he initiated these people including Siddha whether they fell down which I know many of them did he forgave them. All roads lead back to him. I am not the one who is preaching and I have never ever alledged that I am spiritually superior to anyone. I accept that I am a woman and as such am not spiritually superior by birth in accordance with the scripture and I have stated this. Get your priorities straight?? - I am not your wife and I do not take orders from you - the sheer arrogance to come in here as an anonymous coward who has no reason to protect your identity from Siddha and attack me for trying to expose him and dictate to me what i should and should not accept when you cannot answer or even acknowledge questions that are put to you in response to your assertions. All excuses and no reasons. I do not take orders from anyone who defends child molestation as you do. I may not know anything at all about Scripture and you may well be able to prove that but I am not a defender of child molestation nor do I sanctify those who turn a blind eye to vile and disgusting behaviours. Maybe if we are stepping out of line in your opinion you could follow the modern equivalent of the Hindu tradition that you are so fond of and preachy about and come and throw acid in our faces?
If you think that you can do better than me in exposing Siddha then by all means get off [i:6cc95a7e7a]your[/i:6cc95a7e7a] arse and do something, I am not stopping you. Pretty pathetic to want to ride on my back and make me tow the plough for your beliefs.[/color:6cc95a7e7a][/size:6cc95a7e7a]
Furthermore if you send me any more abusive PMs or e-mails as you have this morning either or I will report you to the moderator for trolling.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
emntk
()
Date: January 05, 2007 01:08PM
Maui has bidden a hasty retreat from the other thread after making the requisite excuses pardoning ACB for anything that his disciples have done.
Rama who was raised in SOI has made similar statements to the ones which Cara has made as have several other posters who are people that were actually there, which you admit you were not. You have not attacked them :?
I have had years of association with SOI (which you have not) I have met Siddha on several occassions (which you have not) my closest relatives are in his cult (which yours are not) His followers are primarily concerned with chanting and blindly accept whatever Siddha says about ISKCON. They consider all his lectures to be forgeries because Siddha says they are and are discouraged from reading his books because in Siddha philosophy all you really need to do is chant. They do not even generally know as Cara pointed out what Gaudiya Math is or what it represents, they just think that it is bad because it is not Siddha.
Attack Cara all you want. All cult activsts get attacked and vilified by cowards hiding behind the doctrines of large organisations it just means that they are on the right track. Treating her like a stupid woman worked really well for the people in SOI didn't it? :wink:
Rama who was raised in SOI has made similar statements to the ones which Cara has made as have several other posters who are people that were actually there, which you admit you were not. You have not attacked them :?
I have had years of association with SOI (which you have not) I have met Siddha on several occassions (which you have not) my closest relatives are in his cult (which yours are not) His followers are primarily concerned with chanting and blindly accept whatever Siddha says about ISKCON. They consider all his lectures to be forgeries because Siddha says they are and are discouraged from reading his books because in Siddha philosophy all you really need to do is chant. They do not even generally know as Cara pointed out what Gaudiya Math is or what it represents, they just think that it is bad because it is not Siddha.
Attack Cara all you want. All cult activsts get attacked and vilified by cowards hiding behind the doctrines of large organisations it just means that they are on the right track. Treating her like a stupid woman worked really well for the people in SOI didn't it? :wink:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: January 05, 2007 01:32PM
[b:848327f3cc]"Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." ~ George Santayana[/b:848327f3cc][/size:848327f3cc]
Can you guys keep on topic and stop arguing please. It's really annoying. Maui, you also do not have your all of your facts straight. So much of what is written here is based on conjecture and Cara has always asked others for clarification. Even these oft quoted letters from ACB are questionable. ISKcon leaders did fabricate these communiques on occasion. If you were not there personally, it is difficult to put the stories together in a cohesive way. Even if you were there personally, it is difficult!
Maui you said:
You have to understand something. No one wanted to splinter away from ACB. There were serious cultural differences between us and them (I also had been in an ISKcon temple). The aggression was clearly coming from ISKcon. We wanted to follow ACB to the T, but not ISKcon style. We wanted to eat whole grains and honey and not white rice and sugar. We weren't interested in glitz and jamming people with our beliefs. We just wanted to study and work, advance spiritually, and turn people on in a natural way. We thought our leader was the real deal --- which is the real subject of this thread. We are all here to share our experiences and question, offer opinions, reveal our disillusionment and the truth as far as possible.
From the 1973 letter attributed to ACB:
I was with them in 1973. They did not go back to the "Sai" ways or druggie hippie ways. They continued with feasts and temples (picture dieties -Nitai/Gaur) and congregational chanting. They chanted the guru praises to ACB and studied his books. It was really kosher back then. Interesting thing about these letters. You never see follow-up letters or letters from Tusta or CB to ACB do you? You never hear of phone conversations between them either. They were communicating. We were drying mangoes for ACB and shipping them to India for him.
Oh yeah, and CB took these threats very seriously. It was no paranoid joke. (that came later - but CB is provacative and has a tendency to attract this sort of response from people). Who made the threats? Only their hairdresser knows for sure.
Maui, please be a gentleman. You risk getting kicked off of this forum. You have made some valid points.
Can you guys keep on topic and stop arguing please. It's really annoying. Maui, you also do not have your all of your facts straight. So much of what is written here is based on conjecture and Cara has always asked others for clarification. Even these oft quoted letters from ACB are questionable. ISKcon leaders did fabricate these communiques on occasion. If you were not there personally, it is difficult to put the stories together in a cohesive way. Even if you were there personally, it is difficult!
Maui you said:
I think this may have been prior to 1976 (the appointment). An ISKcon guy who was married to a rich Japanese heiress came to our very simple and primitive Koolau temple. It was during the rainy season and the paths were really muddy. It was so funny, they wore the richest silk robes and he chanted on pearl japa beads. They were appalled at our humble place in the country. They were looking for property to confiscate. They had heard that CB had this huge deal. It was just rented shacks (or a house sitting situation) and just a few guys who put on feasts wearing rubber boots and humble dhotis on Sundays. There were only a few householders. These people were clearly used to more elegant domiciles. We were living like real saddhus in India and put on feasts that the hippies from the commune down the road and a few young surfers and tourists would come to. It was really funny. CB owned nothing at the time --- not even a health food store. He got wind of these guys coming and left the island or refused to meet with them -- I forget which. We wrote a sign on the door of the storefront temple in town, "Sorry, we close today". Above the store was a sign in hippie lettering "Krishna:Beyond Mystic Liquid". I watched from accross the street laughing my ass off as Mr. and Mrs Toyota were puzzled by this place, banging on the door. It was just a funky storefront like from an old western movie. Nothing modern, nothing plate glass. Behind the small space lived a Filipino man who made fishermen's nets on his porch all day.Quote
Siddha had a lot of problems with ISKCON. In 1976 he was appointed co-gbc of Hawaii and Japan with Gurukripa Swami. That was when Siddha left,
You have to understand something. No one wanted to splinter away from ACB. There were serious cultural differences between us and them (I also had been in an ISKcon temple). The aggression was clearly coming from ISKcon. We wanted to follow ACB to the T, but not ISKcon style. We wanted to eat whole grains and honey and not white rice and sugar. We weren't interested in glitz and jamming people with our beliefs. We just wanted to study and work, advance spiritually, and turn people on in a natural way. We thought our leader was the real deal --- which is the real subject of this thread. We are all here to share our experiences and question, offer opinions, reveal our disillusionment and the truth as far as possible.
From the 1973 letter attributed to ACB:
Quote
Tusta Krishna has already left and is in Hawaii with Siddha Svarupananda Maharaja. I never believed that again you would go back to your old habits, giving up the Krishna Consciousness Movement in a whimsical way. Please do not do this mistake [...] Now all of a sudden you have changed that program and taken to your original ways? I am so much aggrieved to receive all this news. For Krishna's sake, do not do these things. I request Tusta Krishna to go back to New Zealand and take charge of your duties. Please do not leave Krishna. You will not be happy. That is my request."( to Tusta Krishna and Beharilal, 73-10-15)
I was with them in 1973. They did not go back to the "Sai" ways or druggie hippie ways. They continued with feasts and temples (picture dieties -Nitai/Gaur) and congregational chanting. They chanted the guru praises to ACB and studied his books. It was really kosher back then. Interesting thing about these letters. You never see follow-up letters or letters from Tusta or CB to ACB do you? You never hear of phone conversations between them either. They were communicating. We were drying mangoes for ACB and shipping them to India for him.
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. I have heard that he was threatened by Tamal Krishna and possbily also Gurukripa Swami
Oh yeah, and CB took these threats very seriously. It was no paranoid joke. (that came later - but CB is provacative and has a tendency to attract this sort of response from people). Who made the threats? Only their hairdresser knows for sure.
Absolutely not true. CB never initiated anyone until months after ACB died. You are correct in that at least 20 years ago, that ACB was respected and many of CB's students were ACB disciples. He did not re-initiate them. Pictures of CB appeared on alters only after the death of ACB. Most altars also had pictures of ACB with CB.Quote
I had no personal experience with Siddha because I joined after he had left. He left in the first part of 1976 and I joined in december 1977, less then a month after ACBS had died. ........because he was the first and only disciple of ACBS to start his own organization and take disciples during the time ACBS was still alive.
This property was leased for $1.00 a year from the Fords to ISKcon.Quote
Siddha ddin't own the ISKCON temple. In 1974 Ambarisa Das (Alfred Ford) said he was going to purchase an estate in honoloulu for a new temple.
Maui's answer to this question is correct.Quote
Also I am curious as to what are the origins of the chants that Siddha's followers chant as I have not heard them anywhere else. Are they traditional or did he make them up himself?
Maui, please be a gentleman. You risk getting kicked off of this forum. You have made some valid points.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 05, 2007 05:59PM
Ladies and Gentleman and Trolls (mostly gentleman I believe)
If I wanted to waste my time being arbitrarily condemned on a personal level by those who do not know me nor what they are talking about, who cannot answer questions or qualify their statements in any way shape or form (rendering them incapable of providing correction or education that they claim I so require) and have no courage of their convictions to even show themselves [i:8b8dc1de23]and[/i:8b8dc1de23] spoonfed bullshit and contradictory theology then I would have stayed with Science of Identity. I would have been much happier there too.
What we have here now is the full circle - Siddha wanted to follow ACB but ISKCON wouldn't allow it, therefore Siddha was right to leave - this how his current followers see it and why he continues to be seen as a bonafide spiritual master.
ACB is not to be criticised because he is perfect but ISKCON is fair game and rotten to the core (please note the core is not their founder and leader ACB but someone else :? ) Any indication that he is not perfect is a fabrication by those naughty ISKCON boys who were initiated by ACB, cashed up by the organisation he founded and via this organisation given authority over people including small children (who were raped) but then again not ACB's fault.
So only Siddha stayed true to the teachings of ACB therefore making him a perfect disciple and Science of Identity wholly valid. That is where this forum is up to to save you having to read the other 76 pages.
I look forward to seeing what Maui who is [i:8b8dc1de23]so much [/i:8b8dc1de23]more qualified [i:8b8dc1de23]and[/i:8b8dc1de23] spiritual than I and so wants to see Science of Identity exposed that he comes in here to attack me and prove that I have no credibility is going to do about it. I am sure it will be a whole heap of nothing - and you will see who lacks credibility in the end. SOI will no doubt go on as it always has while all these people that have years on me will wonder [u:8b8dc1de23][i:8b8dc1de23][b:8b8dc1de23]when[/b:8b8dc1de23][/i:8b8dc1de23][/u:8b8dc1de23] someone is going to do something about it.
For the record I think that Sai was actually right. Caring about anything is always pointless in the end and you do only open yourself up to suferring by giving a shit. It is, I can hear him say it, the nature of this world. I gave a shit to give up everything to go to be his student and his followers ruined my life and took all that had any value - my spiritual life - away fom me. I love Brendon Rice more than anything, I would take that pill in the story for him, although I am certain he would not do it for me, but because I love him I wouldn't want him to anyway. Now I think because I care that I should try to help people not go through the same thing and what do I get? more shit.
No one should bother trying to stand behind me anymore (as the sources of most of my information have) so I guess they will have to do their own dirty work. I am going to go back to standing behind Siddhaswarupananda if not infact on a formal level because I have no chance of being taken back unless he is as forgiving as his followers and the Scripture says that he should be then in spirit.
Thank you and good night.
If I wanted to waste my time being arbitrarily condemned on a personal level by those who do not know me nor what they are talking about, who cannot answer questions or qualify their statements in any way shape or form (rendering them incapable of providing correction or education that they claim I so require) and have no courage of their convictions to even show themselves [i:8b8dc1de23]and[/i:8b8dc1de23] spoonfed bullshit and contradictory theology then I would have stayed with Science of Identity. I would have been much happier there too.
What we have here now is the full circle - Siddha wanted to follow ACB but ISKCON wouldn't allow it, therefore Siddha was right to leave - this how his current followers see it and why he continues to be seen as a bonafide spiritual master.
ACB is not to be criticised because he is perfect but ISKCON is fair game and rotten to the core (please note the core is not their founder and leader ACB but someone else :? ) Any indication that he is not perfect is a fabrication by those naughty ISKCON boys who were initiated by ACB, cashed up by the organisation he founded and via this organisation given authority over people including small children (who were raped) but then again not ACB's fault.
So only Siddha stayed true to the teachings of ACB therefore making him a perfect disciple and Science of Identity wholly valid. That is where this forum is up to to save you having to read the other 76 pages.
I look forward to seeing what Maui who is [i:8b8dc1de23]so much [/i:8b8dc1de23]more qualified [i:8b8dc1de23]and[/i:8b8dc1de23] spiritual than I and so wants to see Science of Identity exposed that he comes in here to attack me and prove that I have no credibility is going to do about it. I am sure it will be a whole heap of nothing - and you will see who lacks credibility in the end. SOI will no doubt go on as it always has while all these people that have years on me will wonder [u:8b8dc1de23][i:8b8dc1de23][b:8b8dc1de23]when[/b:8b8dc1de23][/i:8b8dc1de23][/u:8b8dc1de23] someone is going to do something about it.
For the record I think that Sai was actually right. Caring about anything is always pointless in the end and you do only open yourself up to suferring by giving a shit. It is, I can hear him say it, the nature of this world. I gave a shit to give up everything to go to be his student and his followers ruined my life and took all that had any value - my spiritual life - away fom me. I love Brendon Rice more than anything, I would take that pill in the story for him, although I am certain he would not do it for me, but because I love him I wouldn't want him to anyway. Now I think because I care that I should try to help people not go through the same thing and what do I get? more shit.
No one should bother trying to stand behind me anymore (as the sources of most of my information have) so I guess they will have to do their own dirty work. I am going to go back to standing behind Siddhaswarupananda if not infact on a formal level because I have no chance of being taken back unless he is as forgiving as his followers and the Scripture says that he should be then in spirit.
Thank you and good night.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: January 05, 2007 06:06PM
ps - Since it has been so thoroughly established that the actions of a spiritual master's disciples and followers are no reflection on him then I accept that Siddhaswarupananda is a bonafide spiritual master since it was only the actions of his followers that led me to conclude otherwise.
I realise my mistake in criticising Siddhaswarupananda and the symptoms of my spiritual suicide that followed as a result of dwelling in fault finding and criticising a Vaishnava.
All of the time put in to these negative and proven to be pointless pasttimes will be better spent in praying for forgiveness and to receive guidance from such a bonafide spiritual master.
I realise my mistake in criticising Siddhaswarupananda and the symptoms of my spiritual suicide that followed as a result of dwelling in fault finding and criticising a Vaishnava.
All of the time put in to these negative and proven to be pointless pasttimes will be better spent in praying for forgiveness and to receive guidance from such a bonafide spiritual master.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 05, 2007 10:12PM
To whom it may concern:
Maui was banned from this board.
Maui was apparently an Internet troll, attempting to subvert this thread and harass contributors.
See [curezone.com]
Maui was banned from this board.
Maui was apparently an Internet troll, attempting to subvert this thread and harass contributors.
See [curezone.com]
Quote
"A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.
A classic...is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. Troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them.
While he tries to present himself as a skeptic looking for truth ... his messages usually sounds as if it is the responsibility of other forum members to provide evidence that what forum is all about is legitimate science."
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: January 05, 2007 10:14PM
Quote
zelig
It's always good to read Rick Ross's list of the [u:e99490e556]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader[/u:e99490e556].
[www.culteducation.com]
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
[u:e99490e556]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader. [/u:e99490e556]
Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
[b:e99490e556]Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader. [/b:e99490e556]
Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
[b:e99490e556]Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided. [/b:e99490e556]
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The following excerpt from Sai Speaks is non-different from his teachings when I was part of the group. It illustrates his simplistic, cynical and bitter world view. Another example of his famous 'straw man' epistemology. sick stuff.[/size:e99490e556]
Comments anyone?[/size:e99490e556]
Thanks for posting this exceprt from [i:e99490e556]Sai Speaks[/i:e99490e556] - the story about the pill is very ridiculous, silly and somehow in bad taste - [b:e99490e556]yes sick[/b:e99490e556]. This story is not taken from any scripture or from the mouth of ACB, but comes from the man called Sai and shows where he was at. He was already convincing people that their family relations were not important...
:arrow: Amazing those ten warning signs for people involved with a potentially unsafe leader - they are all [b:e99490e556]BANG ON.[/b:e99490e556]
Tuco says: There are two kinds of people in this world, Tin men and Straw men. [/size:e99490e556] :D
:D
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: January 05, 2007 10:24PM
Quote
zelig
It's always good to read Rick Ross's list of the [u:2f8c829709]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader[/u:2f8c829709].
[www.culteducation.com]
[b:2f8c829709]Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions. [/b:2f8c829709]
:idea: It was the [b:2f8c829709]EVIL CONSPIRACIES [/color:2f8c829709][/b:2f8c829709]that got me thinking something was seriously wrong with J. Guru and his group.
Specifically, as mentioned previously, the great air-conditioner conspiracy - [i:2f8c829709]classic![/i:2f8c829709]
:idea:
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