This is an excellent list to consider for anyone who feels they are involved in an unhealthy AA group or self proclaimed "guru" type of AA "know it all."

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist

[b:296bbfbaf3]Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.[/b:296bbfbaf3]

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.


[b:296bbfbaf3]Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader. [/b:296bbfbaf3]

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.


[b:296bbfbaf3]Ten signs of a safe group/leader.[/b:296bbfbaf3]

A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.


Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.
You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.


Thanks to RR for putting that together

Colter

Thanks - that's a good list for evaluating any kind of group, Colter. I thought this Forum might be cult related somehow. My first thought was of Moonies! My Mom always had this dreadful fear that when I went to California I might join the Moonies. Don't know if I've ever met one or not though.
Maggie

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree.
People do learn how to "work" their group; I have heard many stories of "seasoned" predators and gurus, and there are many posts here about that problem.

Alcoholics may be self-centered, as you say, but they are not always primarily "working to stay sober". Some have "ego-mania" that sends them out looking for whatever they can get, be it sex, money, or the admiration of those who look up to them.

While it is nice that those who are looking for information about how to protect themselves from coercion can find it here on the "cult forum", it won't be of much use to the vulnerable newcomer to AA in general.

The newcomer needs to be informed beforehand of what he may be facing in AA.
The idealistic language used at meetings is an incentive for the newcomer to drop his guard. He, (or she), can easily be led to believe that the older members are more highly moral and compassionate than is truly the case.

Glossing over the realities of AA meetings and membership in order to paint a more rosy picture may work for purposes of recruitment, but it does not seem to be in the best interests of the newcomer, nor does holding him solely responsible for his own protection.

I really think the organization should reveal the pitfalls to those who are looking to it for help, particularly since it claims to have "helping the alcoholic who still suffers", (in other words the "newcomer"), as its primary purpose.

Barbara, are you basing your opinions on going to AA, being a member, a new member, what? I've just never heard views like this about AA. It certainly is saving my neighbor's life!
Maggie

My views are based upon the experiences of people I know in AA, others I have worked with, books and articles, and many sources from the internet.
I have also spoken with various mental health professionals about these problems.
I have been to numerous AA and NA meetings and functions in order to see for myself and confirm what I was told.

Different people have different experiences of AA.
Certain personality types do well in 12 step programs, others do not always fare as well.
In particular, those who are self-deprecating, designated "scapegoats" in their family of origin, and people who are naive prior to attending meetings are at the highest risk for predation and psychological harm.

AA and the other 12 step programs are neither all-good or all-bad. They do help some people, just not everyone, regardless of how well they "work the steps".

Hummmmmmmm....

Doubt anyone will get any help anywhere if they don't want it! Some people are not ready to quit drinking or drugging, and they can really pull the wool over their loved ones' eyes. Think you might have a dose of this, Barb. Alkies can be slick as glass...
m

True.
They can also be extremely fanatic about what they believe, and have a great capacity for denial.
They also adamantly refuse to look at evidence, even when it is presented in such a way that it cannot be ignored.
That is how they are able to poison their bodies for so long.
Fortunately, I have much experience with addicts and alcoholics, and much training, and much education about the subject. Not many people can pull the wool over my eyes, but you're welcome to try.

Therapists, psychologists and substance abuse councillors can also be quite possessive of their clients and the theory that alcoholics and drug addicts can be "educated" out of addiction. What we see is the EGO's of the therapists getting "tweaked" a little bit just as religions do by the fact that the 12 steps have been able to do something that they cannot. AA has even been called the anti Christ by organized religion. The founder of Rational Recovery refers to AA as "the personification of the beast," a comparison to the metaphorical character of Satan or the devil in the book of Genesis.

AA says bring you "big Book" and councillors say "bring your check book." AA is up front about the fact that there is no cure for alcoholism. Therapist may lead clients to believe that "self knowledge" can cure them.......and for a stiff hourly fee. AA would say that we are not cured of our alcoholism but rather [i:1dd76b758a][b:1dd76b758a]we have a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition[/b:1dd76b758a]. [/i:1dd76b758a]

Periods of sobriety are attainable on fear alone or even the enthusiastic response to certain discoveries about self in or out of the therapeutic environment. The baffling reality of alcoholism is that even after long periods of sobriety and a restoration of health the addiction prone individual often returns active using.

Therapists who come from disfunction are often in the field as a vicarious attempt to "fix" those that they could not fix in their families of origin. This however in no way negates the service to the community that such councillors provide. Councillors who have themselves worked the 12 steps and "understand" the truth are in great position to provide a doorway into real recovery.

Colter

oops double post

All you have to do is delete the double post. It goes away.

You certainly seem to have a deep resentment against the therapeutic community.
Most of the therapists I have known work in charity situations and do so for free, or a very reasonable salary (under $30,000/annum).

But yes, there do seem to be those who are more concerned with profit.
That really doesn't have much to do with AA though.