Quote
Sallie
Exfollower,
You understand my sarcasm.

How does that make you feel Ex????

sallie-

"understand your sarcasm?"... i guess i don't... but then again, i've been misunderstood also.

"How does that make you feel Ex????" -

well, i actually read what was written... and didn't read things into it... so,i feel OK! pretty good actually - thank you for asking.

Please avoid petty bickering.

It is neither helpful or on topic.

Jack is dead
Gary is alive
Wouldn't it suit Gary Coons' needs if anyone interested in his story or history, believed he was always innocent in all things? What if we believed that Gary began as a young man who was too innocent to do wrong? Then we believed that he innocently thought Jack was harmless because of Jack's physical impotence. What if we believed that during the years in which Jack was known to be harmful, Gary alone had physical contact with him? What if we believed that now, as an adult, Gary is a little off-beat but sincere and just ''trying to hold things together''?


.
Gary the Leader was NEVER Jack Hickman's victim. Gary wasn't born into the group. His parents were never a part of it. He didn't ''become'' a homosexual because of Jack. Gary was a young man who developed a May/December romance with a powerful cult leader who he liked. Gary liked Jack a lot. Gary was happy in the big house in East Islip. Gary enjoyed a power trip that he shared with Jack. He liked it so much that he decided to corroborate with Jack in what GARY HAS ALWAYS KNOWN is a scam . Gary Coons is keeping up the scam for purely selfish reasons.
Money.
Power.
What other motivation would a sociopath need?


Didn't/Don't Gary Coons and other leaders still operate in a way that Jack Hickman taught them to?.
Didn't / Don't Gary Coons and other leaders ALWAYS

1) take informtion that was ALREADY IN CIRCULATION and then...retell it.
2) ''retell'' the information that is already out there in a very COLORFULl and exciting way. As if it was some type of ''revelation''.
3) ''retell'' the information in a way that suited them?Let's consider this:


So now this article is written about Jack Hickman which
1) reveals nothing factually new. It reveals those things which are already public ifnormation.
2)While some of Gary Coons' behavior is described as bizarre , it is surely not illegal. Everything can be justified. Gary believes and teaches weird stuff sometimes? Well...so does Oprah and Shirley McLain. Gary uses 25% of the tithe money as a salary? Well...that's not much worse than some priests.
3)During 1983 - 1996, according to this article.....Jack and Gary Coons were alone...away from physical contact with others....just receiving tithe/and or charity
4)JACK BECOMES IMPOTENT.....(oooohhhhh....I get so mad at that one).......
5)They re-gather....

Well it sounds as if it was written by some of the same people who post on this site. Some. Not all.

to all:

does any one know for certain when gary was first 'taken' by JH?

i'm wondering how old he was. as i recall he was the same age Lou was (16?) when JH 'started' with him. i didn't really know gary except for hockey.
(at that time, i was busy raising my family, so the people we hung out with were mostly couples w/ kids.)

not that i believe, after all this time, that being a victim, is an excuse. there comes a point when even so , you are responsible for your actions! after all, Lou was a victim... and JH was either born crazy, or he also suffered some childhood trauma. (prob. sexual abuse) becuase i don't believe people are just 'born evil'.

Exfollower,

Fawn? Was that one of Jack's mastiffs? Ok, you say you used to hang out with Jack in small groups. Sometimes just you and Jack? In 1981 when the article came out Gary was about 21. So you ''hung out'' with Jack during his honeymoon phase with Gary. They were newly involved. Poor Lou was being pushed aside. You didn't know any of that?
You ''recall'' Gary being ''taken'' at age 16?
Gary was in H.S. and already a homosexual before he even came anywhere near community members. Prior to age 16 Gary had never even been to a meeting. When he showed up at Shoresh it was of his own free will and he was already a homosexual and he met Jack...the well liked, financially secure, powerful leader of a cult.

How is that being ''taken'' ?. Jack didn't ''take'' Gary. They met. They met on Jack Hickman's turf. Gary showed up at Jack Hickman's door basically..... Gary wasn't particularly interested in religion. You didn't know that? You thought he ws seeking religious fulfillment?
ALL of the inner circle members that I knew were DELIBERTELY hypocritical. NONE EVEN TRIED to keep the kosher/sabboth laws. Including Jack Hickman. You think Gary the young homosexual showed up at Jack the rich and powerful homosexual's turf looking for......spiritual guidance?
I don't.
I think Gary arrived at the turf of a wealthy and powerful homosexual. They liked each other. They became lovers. How complicated is that?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 02:59AM by Sallie.

Darlene is Gary Coons' sister. Richie Green left the cult. He posted about Darlene
Then Brainwashed who says he was a ''youth'' of the cult writes this........
He writes that Gary's sister Darlene....

[...][/quote]
Darlene doesnt have a shred of involvement in the community so your powerful political move would have gotten you nowhere near the power structure. Did you even have a relationship with Darlene? Or would you have just decided to marry her one day? Anyway, those are rhetorical questions. I really have no desire to really discuss this I just thought it was funny.
===========================================================================

So Brainwashed felt that even an insinuation that Gary's sister is involved with the group is laughable. Something to be mocked.
Really?

Well if Gary Coons is such a sincere guy who really believes all this stuff then, why would cult members laugh at the idea that Gary's sister would be involved in this group? btw...this is also a rhetorical question. I already know what sorts of things make these cult leaders laugh.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 03:21AM by Sallie.

I thought the website, moderndoomsdaycult.com was very good. I think it is important to remember that we all experience things differently. This is just one person's viewpoint and research (it appears to be researched by someone who did not live it in those "early years.") My point is, we cannot expect everyone to perceive things the same as we do, even when given the same facts and experiences. Some people are not perceptive. They are very naive. They don't see things at face value. Maybe people really believed Gary was a nice guy all those years because they were told that he was and they wanted to believe that rather than deal with the idea that he could be a cult leader and sociopath just like Jack. Auto-suggestion or denial can be very powerful.

We've likely all sat in rooms with people chanting and crying hysterically because they/we were praying. Depending on where you were emotionally at the time, you could have been in the back of the room rolling your eyes and smoking or you could have been in the middle of the circle shaking with the spirit. Maybe some people were never the people drinking and doing drugs when they went to meetings. Maybe some people were always the front of the class kids, thinking they were doing the right thing to be "perfect" while they were shaking and crying and praying like crazy. So who is right in the situation? Who has the truth? Truth is relative to your perception. We will never all agree about this.

Myself, I am suspicious of Gary. No one should be that nice all the time. But I don't know if I can wrap my mind around the fact that he was a part of pedophilia. I'm probably still in denial. I always knew inherently that something was wrong with Jack... but Gary.... Something about him didn't fit but I didn't know what. I'm naive. I NEVER thought he was sleeping with Jack. Did I think it was weird that they lived together all those years? Yes. Yes I did. Given that information, and knowing that he and MV went to "slay a beast" does make me sick. It goes beyond people "just wanting to be spiritual" or whatever other excuses we make for the people still a part of this garbage.

I love the sarcasm. Keep it coming. So good for a laugh. But let us not assume we are all emotionally mature or able to accept things that should be blatantly obvious. Have we all not been emotionally retarded by being abused by a cult?

Disillusioned,
You are right. You are right about everything that you've experienced as far as I can tell. In fact I would guess that your perspective about this group is way better than mine and I agree that people will come at this from different perspectives.
I'm suspicious of this article. I'm not suspicious because of my insight or emotional maturity. I'm suspicious because of my age. I'm older than you and witnessed the ''charismatic'' phase of this group. I also experienced what some ''older'' posters on this forum are describing. Their strories do not necessarily jive with my experiences.
That's why I'm suspicious. Not because of insight or intelligence or anything else. But because of personal experience.
I experienced the things and times that they describe. But I was seeing it through a child's eyes at the time.

Too many things did not exactly go down the way it was described in the article. Is this author really a young person who is repeating what they heard ? I don't know.
They are painting a very sympathetic picture of Gary. Why? Is it because that is what they were taught to do?
Again I don't know but regardless, the blame, in my opinion, lies with Gary and the elders. People in my generation and ESPECIALLY those who are older than me should recognize this.
Whether the author is repeating what they were told or whether they are telling it first hand...Gary is described as a victim.
Why?
Gary is described as a nice guy. He's not. He's just not.

Here's my story ....I ''hung out'' in groups where Gary would sometimes be. Here's my best memory of him....
Once these three guys were trying to get me into the car at some camping trip. I don't remember why but I was telling them to get lost. Nothing serious. It was kind of playful but then one of the guys got out of the car and pushed me down...I actually fell off the curb.
I remember so clearly a hand...someone reached out and grabbed me and yanked me off the ground.
When I looked up it was Gary. Gary Coons. Big sweet smile as he gave me a helping hand.

That's my clearest memory of him. Nice? Yeh. Yeh he was. To me.

But I still loathe him.

I don't care how he acted in public. I do believe he corroborated with Jack. I do believe that young men have been harmed by Jack and that Gary also gave them a ''different'' sort of helping hand.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 07:00AM by Sallie.

Quote
Sallie
Gary is described as a nice guy. He's not. He's just not.
Gary Coons. Big sweet smile as he gave me a helping hand.
That's my clearest memory of him. Nice? Yeh. Yeh he was. To me.
But I still loathe him.
I don't care how he acted in public. I do believe he corroborated with Jack. I do believe that young men have been harmed by Jack and that Gary also gave them a ''different'' sort of helping hand.

sallie - believe it or not, we all feel that way!!!

Exfollower,
Well then you need to seriously re-think. You HUNG OUT WITH JACK AND GARY DURING THOSE EARLY YEARS. YOU WOULD PERPETUATE THAT BELIEF THAT HE IS A ''NICE GUY'' TO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING BETTER.?

You had the unique pleasure of seeing how the ''boys'' acted together. I have some insight into this but much of the puzzle is missing for me.
But not for you.
You know the whole picture.
You weren't born into the group. You were an adult. A man. Alone with the men.

I'm having a hard time biting my tongue right now.

I do know of two young boys who are permanently harmed..permanently...no thanks to Gary Coons.
You DO KNOW the whole story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 08:58AM by Sallie.