Quote
My Good Name
Does anyone believe JH's motives were more than just sexual and monetary? Does anyone think he believed what he taught? Why did his teachings become more and more insane as time went on?

I'm not sure. I honestly think he enjoyed "pretending" to be living Revelations. He was altering of his perception for life to feel more intense, and his part in it more important (this is often how supporters describe their experience within the group). And I'm not really talking about gaining followers and being the one people turn to in all matters, I mean "pretending" that god has been waiting for you to rally an army of spiritual warriors, that the forces of evil are plotting against you, that the world will soon be laid to waste as the messiah comes to rule the nations. Conspiracy theorists live under the same mentality.

Other than greed, power, money, sexual exploitation....what other motivating forces exist? Altruism? Might Jack/Gary be motivated by a love for humanity and a desire to protect them from a falsely perceived threat? First of all Jack Hickman was in his right mind as is Gary Coons.
Jack and Gary never eperienced a reality break which left them incapable of daily interactions and/or self maintainance. They were not/are not incapable of discerning fact from fiction.
Gary and Jack had/have all of their faculties. A person who does not have all of their faculties could not care for themselves. These leaders care for themselves. That's a fact. Jack took such good care of himself that he died as an extremely wealthy man who did not even need to lift a finger in the end... he surrounded himself with other human beings who would do anything to satisfy his every whim. No one who has lost touch with reality lives and dies in such comfort.
Secondly, as far as altruism, they don't believe in it. Period. How could someone who preahes AGAINST altruism BE a caring humanitarian? For example Jack used to preach that the christ who died 2000 years ago, died as a failure; and that the reason for his 'failing' was because of a psalm...something like...'the love of my father's house will consume me''....so ....Jack said that by flipping out in the temple jesus destroyed his ministry and so he had to endure the cross....
Jack was NOT altruistic. Jack and Gary taught/teach that self preservation is of god and self sacrifice is a failing.
So now let's be reasonable and consider this. If a person is TEACHING that self PRESERVATION is of god...they must be a person who ''self preserves''. That is ....what's the word...um...uh...oh yeh...a self-centered narcissist.(however spelled)
If the leaders of the cult believe in caring and giving then why are they always receiving.
Others are taught to give time and money.....to them...they RECEIVE the tithes??? For what? For the lepers overseas? NO. They keep and spend the money.
I'm ready to laugh myself into hysterics again because I almost think there is a belief that Jack/Gary were deluded into wanting to ''rescue'' others from what they truly believe is a threat? Is that it?
no..
no no no...
They are not self deluded rescue heroes of the sort found in mental hospitals.
NO.
They lived together for decades.
Worked as a team. Now Gary is solo.
Exploiting and deceiving.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2009 12:04AM by Sallie.

I don't know. I just can't see Gary that way. The money maybe, but not the rest of it.

I do think JH was a self absorbed narcissist, even possible a sociopath. However I also think he was increasingly less lucid and out of touch with reality, demonstrating grandiosity and delusions. This got worse and worse and started as far back as 1997 or even before. I remember once leaving the room because he was babbling nonsense. Other people, including GC were hanging on his every word. My mother was there as well and also left the room. She said, "He's crazy" I said' "I know" People always explained away when others didn't understand him saying he was too deep and spiritually advanced so others who weren't ready or who were spiritually less evolved didn't get it. This caused people to feel inferior and to try to act like they did get it to prove themselves. It was totally self perpetuating. This had a trickle down effect among followers. I remember socializing with a "prince" family. The husband and wife described themselves as exceptionally superior, were very condecsending about their own spirituality compared to the sprituality of those visiting and also described their son as a "special" chosen one, who saw visions. Their superior attitude did successfully make many people feel "less than" and would cause them to grovel. JH was the master of this and his elevated ones grandeized themselves this way also. Pathology begins when people believe their own lies, starting with JH. That is one of the awful things about this. Parents were pathological in their beliefs. Many of their children grew up and said, "my parents are delusional, they actually believe this garbage and they have raised me with delusions"

Gary is no different than Jack. Gary is not suffering from the Michael Jackson syndrome(I'm just a child). Gary is a 50 year old man who corroborated with Jack. If Gary hung on Jack's every word during Jack's delusional babblings then he did so in order to help give the allusion of credibility to Jack.

Gary may not have been an actual child, but he did begin serious involvement in the home of JH at a very young age. He was "adopted" as first born around 18 years old, so that suggests a serious prior involvement to the extent that his adoption was desired by JH, when he turned 18. In my opinion his "relationship" with JH began, to a serious level, as a minor.

Confused,
You are demonstrating a concern and caring of Gary Coons as if he were a victim. This is a forum where I was belittled and it was suggested I stop posting and ''get over'' past wounds. Now the possibility that Gary Coons had been bruised three decades ago is somehow so relevant that we can use it to excuse his present behavior? Leaders and princes can been scrutinized but Gary can't?
Ridiculous.
If we are going to re-visit 30 year old wounds then let's do it whole heartedly. Thirty years ago Gary Coons was in his 20s and legally of age. He helped Jack HIckman decieve and seduce others into what he knew was a scam.
Let's re-visit the past whole heartedly or, not at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2009 03:13AM by Sallie.

I copied thia post from Corboy from the Cyberpaths thread
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Check out the list of resources on the right hand sidebar of Fighter's site.
Fantastic.

And some great great quotes about the futility of forgiving people who are still predators, still comitting crimes in progress.

A heart warming story from a very intelligent lady who got away. This site is listed as one of the resources on Fighter's site.

[dontdatehimgirl.com]

I hope it's ok that I'm quoting him on this thread.

Anyway.
Corboy also posted on the Cyberpaths thread...
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Amateur psychoanalyzing is a form of 'intrigue.' A lot of psychopaths con us into mourning their wounded miserable childhoods for them.

We get conned into fretting about the buried humanity of the abuser, caring more about their 'potential' and thier 'latent talent' than about our own current well being.

Many of these crooks hang around in therapy just long enough to learn its concepts so as to run mind games and con good hearted people into parenting them.

Or, those who think they've escaped from a con artists clutches spend YEARS trying to psychoanalyze the con artist, as if the person had some stable core or conscience.

If someone begs you to help them figure things out, tell them to work on it.

If they beg you to recommend a shrink, dont do it. Let them find one.

If they beg for one more chance to 'make amends'

tell them,

'To make amends, treat your next (partner, spouse employee, etc) better than you treated me.'

DONT TRY TO FIGURE THESE PEOPLE OUT

JUST GET AWAY FROM THEM AND KEEP UPGRADING YOUR OWN BS DETECTOR.


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I perosnally think this is brilliant insight and advice which should be applied to this cult's present leader

I don't know what happened with that last post but I'll rewrite it. GC may not have been an actual child, but he did begin being invited to the home of JH as a minor under 18. He was "adopted" as first born at around 18years of age which suggests a "relationship" occurred prior to age 18 that would make JH desire to adopt him as first born. Thought reform, abuse and control as well as the so called "special relationship" began under 18 which is a minor.