Dear Nichijew,

The funny thing is, other members told me to write to him. I finally relented and wrote to him twice. He never replied, just like Santa.

I'd like to think I scared him when I wrote about the famous Zen argument between Huineng and Shenxiu and asked his opinion on the first letter, then quoted the Tao Te Ching and compared it to ichinen sanzen.

Nah, he probably just never picked it up. Most likely both letters were thrown in the burnable trash bin by the time they reached Tokyo.

And a nam-myoho-renge-kyo with a plate of cookies to you, Santa!

Hello y'all - I too would like to give a before and after of what life has been with both during and leaving the practice. I never knew what a before was as I was born into it. From what I'm reading I had no "pre cult" identity. I praticed from a young age and practiced continiously till I hit my early 20's. I stopped for a few years due to my anger at my family. When I cam back in it was 2005. I then started the process of having my identiy apart from my parents. However now I have left for a second time in 2009. I have no intentions of returning. I find myself much more in touch with the reality of my life. That is to say less clueless. I was worried that someone would come up with crtical words about my decision to leave and they have. Buy I don't care anymore.

I feel free and happy and open and even more excited about daily life. I'm glad that even though I heard negative things in the past, I was creating a new identity for myself. My point is that I haven't had more or less luck than usual. My mental faculties are still in tune with the real world. I am even thiking on trying out a new faith. I won't jump in head on. I'm just taking classes on a faith that was a large part of my extended family. So I'm not trying to convert, just learning something new, I have had to deal with the God issue and am learning from that experience. So my life hasn't ended and I am actively looking at this other faith.

When all is said and done and regardless of what will come out in the end I am happy just going through the process.

I haven't been struck down by lightning. Yup - it seems that I feel good. The first time I tried to leave I didn't have enough stregnth to make the break. This time my resolve grew and grew. Still have problems of course but my outlook on life drastically changed. The overall gist of this story is that I believed I was capable of leaving, I did it, and have been successful through my conviction that Ikeda was evil. How could I practice for a man that thinks his is contending for world domination.

All my benefits growing up were because of my practice - school, friends, love.Didn't get what I wanted - that was cause I wasn't chanting enough Now I have to use my mind (which was look down upon) and my mind is doing a good job of it. I've calmed down. I don't get bent out of shape anymore. Things come to me and I firgure out what to do based on my own heart

After two attempts to leave I am finally being successful at leaving

@Evergreen-I just want to acknowledge you for stepping out on faith. Although I only practiced for four years I to felt the conflicted and looked down upon when I tried to use my mind. There was even a member who used to wear a shirt that said "Don't Think". And yes it is true that life is unpredictable and you don't know what is going to happen at times but I often felt confused and alone when someone would say to me that I was not "using the strategy of the Lotus Sutra. I to was encouraged not to use my mind or think from time to time. I remember one day my sponsor and I were riding in the car and I told her (this was about 8 months into my practice) that I felt as if I were in a cult. She asked me to explain why and I told her it was because I felt as if I was not free when it came to expressing my feelings with members as I was always told that it was fundamental darkness. She then replied that if I was in a cult then I would be told that I could not leave against my own will and that at any time as an SGI member I could choose to go anytime I wanted. I told that h that may be a possibility and she would always use those mind control sayings to get me to stay. In time as the healing goes on, I have faith that I will be able to report many good things that are going on with my life, as a result of leaving the organization. The most important thing for me was to have my mind right. I struggled with that so much. For everyday that I was in the SGI if I thought one negative thought then I thought something was wrong with me. I would create scenarios in my head of situations that I would get into with people and if I got angry (and mind you in real life I had a right to be angry) with someone then I would feel so negative "because I did not have a right to be angry and should have taken it to the Gohonzan". That f----- with me a lot. As I've stated on this post before I came from a very abusive background. My mother and father were very emotionally abusive even while I was in the organization. I remember standing up to my mother and even separating myself away from my mother. When things like this would happened I was often told that I chose my parents in a different lifetime and in this lifetime this was the life that I chose. Linda Johnson actually told one of my friends that the reason why a family member molested her as a five-year-old child was because she actually chose that life. I was angry!! How dare she say that to someone who was a victim of sexual abuse. My friend was so hurt when she heard that yet so far gone that she eventually gave in and agreed with Linda, yet I could still see the hurt in her eyes.

Ithomas - for me there is some truth in us having chosen our lives. However, I would have never chosen to have pain. I would have never chosen to be poor. I would have never chosen many things. On some spiritual level there is a reason I have problems. But when you tell someone they chose to be molested/sexually abused - thats just being an asshole. To tell someone that - Its not being a Buddhist, and its not deep and profound. It is some leader or member who has warped Nichiren's teachings. I would tell someone (although I was never a big leader - always to much of a troublemaker) that it sucks, its horrific, and unfair. I might then ask someone if they gained something from the experience that could help them later in life or help others. karma is not something that is black and white or is supposed to be punitive. Its what you do with the hand you are dealt! It took years of therapy to see how warped these people were and I am glad you are also seeing this (saw this). I hope that your friend sees these things too. For anyone who doesn't think SGI is a cult, all one needs to do is see a story like the one you told.

BTW I posted my story above cause DrJesusEsq said it might be a good idea for fellow travelers on the forum to see our experience. Can we see some others? Just an idea. I think a box of chocolates is calling my name....

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lthomas
In time as the healing goes on, I have faith that I will be able to report many good things that are going on with my life, as a result of leaving the organization. The most important thing for me was to have my mind right. I struggled with that so much. For everyday that I was in the SGI if I thought one negative thought then I thought something was wrong with me. I would create scenarios in my head of situations that I would get into with people and if I got angry (and mind you in real life I had a right to be angry) with someone then I would feel so negative "because I did not have a right to be angry and should have taken it to the Gohonzan". That f----- with me a lot. As I've stated on this post before I came from a very abusive background. My mother and father were very emotionally abusive even while I was in the organization. I remember standing up to my mother and even separating myself away from my mother. When things like this would happened I was often told that I chose my parents in a different lifetime and in this lifetime this was the life that I chose.


Linda Johnson actually told one of my friends that the reason why a family member molested her as a five-year-old child was because she actually chose that life.[/b] I was angry!! How dare she say that to someone who was a victim of sexual abuse. My friend was so hurt when she heard that yet so far gone that she eventually gave in and agreed with Linda, yet I could still see the hurt in her eyes.

lthomas, I showed this post to my friend Mary, who is a licensed social worker -- ie, she got her Masters' Degree in Social Work from an accredited university, did an internship under the supervision of a licensed social worker, passed tests, and completed all the work to be licensed by our state's board. She also continues to take courses to keep her skills and knowledge current. In short, Mary is actually qualified to counsel people on issues like anger and abuse.

Mary was appalled by what these SGI leaders told you and your friend. Here's what she had to say:

"Anger occurs when you don't get what you expected. I advise people to really look at their anger -- what happened, and what they're telling themselves about the situation or person that is making them angry. Sometimes the person's expectations are not realistic. If the person can develop more realistic expectations, they may have more peace of mind, and be able to interact with others more effectively."

"Of course, sometimes the other person really did violate the person's rights. If a person has been treated unfairly, it's important that they express their anger -- and take action to avoid being victimized again."

"In any case, anger is an important signal that something needs to change. Telling people that they don't have a right to be angry is bad advice. If someone is treating you in a mean and unfair way, anger is a healthy response. It can lead you take action to keep yourself and others from being victims. It sounds like this SGI is telling people to just repress their anger, which is unhealthy -- the key is to look at the anger and make conscious choices about how to most effectively handle it."

"As for telling someone who was sexually abused at age five, 'You chose this,' -- that's just horrible! Children who have been abused -- whether sexually, physically or emotionally -- DO blame themselves for somehow bringing on the abuse -- and they shouldn't. No child deserves to be abused, ever, for any reason! Who is this Linda Johnson, that she is telling people crap like this!? She surely can't have had any training in counseling people who've been abused! She's a lawyer? Well, she should stick to practicing law, and refrain from giving advice about things she knows nothing about! If she's a prosecutor, why does she prosecute rapists, murderers and other violent criminals? Doesn't she believe that these victims of violence chose to be victims too?"

DrJesusEsq, I think it's a great idea to post about how our lives are better since leaving SGI. My perspective, after 3+ years out:

1. I don't ever have to see another Ikeda video. This would be enough of a benefit by itself!

2. I have more free time, and chances to explore other activities. I'm taking a class related to my work. I've joined a book club, and am trying other new activities that I didn't have time for before, even a drumming circle. When friends invite us to plays and concerts, I actually have time to go, rather than being already committed to SGI activities.

3. No more hanging out with phony people who say that they're my friends but don't act like it.

4. The biggest benefit, though, is the feeling of freedom.

I no longer feel guilty about not doing SGI activities several times a week -- and I no longer feel resentful about doing SGI activities that I really didn't want to do (but did so that I wouldn't feel guilty.)

I can just enjoy listening to other people talk about their religion and spirituality without immediately feeling that I must drag them to an SGI meeting.

I feel more real, more true to myself. Recently, I was talking with two gay men at my book club meeting. They faced harassment for coming out as gay. Some family members will not see them, and their neighbors throw eggs at their house. I asked them, "Are you sorry you came out, given the negative responses you've gotten from some people?"

They both said, "Not at all! I'm glad I came out, and I wish I'd done it sooner! Of course, we wish we didn't have to deal with our idiot neighbors, and our relatives' rejections. But it's worse pretending to be something that you are not. It's terribly stressful putting on an act, trying to convince others -- and ourselves -- that we were interested in women, when we were not."

"Bingo!" I thought, as they said that. That was EXACTLY how I felt toward the end of my time in SGI...just this terrible tension of trying to convince myself and others that I believed SGI's teachings -- when I didn't. I was pretending to myself and my fellow members that I bought into Master/Disciple, SGI is the one true faith, I'm helping to bring about world peace by supporting SGI activities, I can make anything happen if I chant about it.

I sort of knew that I didn't really believe all this --- but I didn't want to know it back then. Just like my friend knew that he was really attracted to men, not women -- but he didn't want to know it. I had another friend, not in SGI. She'd try to discuss SGI with me, and I'd always tell her, "I don't want to talk about it!" Why didn't I want to talk about it? Well, she asked insightful questions -- and I knew I had no answers.

You think you can avoid the truth and pretend that everything is fine -- but that is actually very stressful. Facing the truth -- that SGI is not what I thought it was, that I just did not buy into the nonsense they were peddling -- was painful, and yet freeing. It is SUCH a relief to be able to tell the truth now about what I really think -- rather than try to push myself into SGI's mold.

@tsukimoto and Evergreen now that I think about it they're are some benefits to quitting the SGI. They are:

Not having to watch Ikeda's video
Not having to read that biased, very boring World Tribune
Not having to feel pressured to buy the boring World Tribune when you don't want to
Not having to do another Byakuren shift for one of those big and/or smaller meetings
Not having to suppress my feelings
Not having to wake up and do Gongyo-also not feeling guilty if I did not do it and being told that I am out of rhythm
Not being around fake people who say they are my friends as well Tsukimoto, Only to not even acknowledge my presence at all when I say hi to them.
Not having to get my house read for another toso and/or YWD meeting.
Not having to hear leaders bickering and telling each other to shut up at District and/or leader's meeting over some interpretation of what Ikeda's writings are.
Not having to listen to Ikeda's poems that he puts out in the World Tribune.

The list could go on and on. I don't miss the people from the organization and I am sad today. I've made a lot of changes in my life however, I feel as if in some ways I am right back to where I started before joining the SGI because I did not really have any spiritual practice. With time and patience that will change. Like I have said before I am taking it one day at a time.

As for my friend who Linda Johnson gave the guidance to for being molested. I doubt it if she will leave the organization. She's been practicing for 14 years and devotes hours and hours to SGI activities. I did however have some time to talk to her about the abuse that happened to her when she was five, yet we never discussed Linda Johnson's guidance again. When we discussed it it was just about her finally confronting her mother for the first time for allowing it to happen.

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lthomas
As I've stated on this post before I came from a very abusive background. My mother and father were very emotionally abusive even while I was in the organization. I remember standing up to my mother and even separating myself away from my mother. When things like this would happened I was often told that I chose my parents in a different lifetime and in this lifetime this was the life that I chose. Linda Johnson actually told one of my friends that the reason why a family member molested her as a five-year-old child was because she actually chose that life. I was angry!! How dare she say that to someone who was a victim of sexual abuse. My friend was so hurt when she heard that yet so far gone that she eventually gave in and agreed with Linda, yet I could still see the hurt in her eyes.

lthomas, your friend's situation sounds like something that I read on the Byron Katie thread:

[forum.culteducation.com]

------------------------------Beginning of Quote, Anticult, page 251 "Eckert Tolle and Byron Katie thread--------------

A new report here about Byron Katie.

[forum.culteducation.com]
"I watched this woman take an educated psychotherapist who had been severely abused, tied to a bed and beaten at age 5 do a turn around where she assumed responsibility for what had happened. At one point she said to Katie....."Lady you are fucked up in the head", that was the healthy part of her, it did not last long. Katie knew just how to manipulate her. It was as scary as it was amazing to watch. It made me sick to see how manipulative this woman truly is. She knows just who to pick. If you are vulnerable she sucks you in and she gets you, if not she basically implies that there is something wrong with you and tells you to go do the worksheets. A win win for her..."
-----------------------------------------end of quote---------------------------------------------------------------------

Byron Katie is a former real estate agent -- she'd apparently had a lot of psychological problems years ago, and was in a halfway house. She says that this one morning, she woke up on the floor of her room, a cockroach ran across her feet -- and she'd supposedly attained some kind of enlightened state where her mental problems vanished and she was just happy and loving all the time. Since then, she goes around giving workshops on how you can be happy all the time by just accepting what is...even things like the Nazis ripping babies out of their mothers' arms and killing them...because God "is what is" and you have to "love what is!"

Insanity, but otherwise intelligent people believe her -- and pay a fortune to hear this kind of talk.

Anyway, how is this like SGI?

1. Both Byron Katie and SGI will tell you that they have the secret, the solution to all of your pain and suffering -- if you just do what they tell you to, you can be happy no matter what happens! In Katie's case, it is doing something that she calls "the work," asking and answering her questions -- that basically exist to convince you that what you really think and feel is not true. With SGI, it's chanting and SGI activities.

In either case, if you try their solution -- and you're still not happy -- then you are told to do MORE of either "the work," or chanting and SGI activities. Basically, if their solution does not work for you -- the problem is YOU, not that their solution was bad.

2. Both Katie and Ikeda say that their system can bring about world peace and they pressure their followers to convert others and spread their ideas worldwide.

3. Neither Katie nor Ikeda is willing to admit that the world is horribly unfair. To a person who was raped and abused at the age of five, SGI says that the person CHOSE to be born to such a family. Katie has said that the child CHOSE the abuse as a way of getting attention from the abuser! Both SGI and Katie are using a warped, distorted logic -- if you can even call it logic -- that holds the victimized child responsible for the abuse, rather than the abusive adult. This is just backwards!

4. Neither Katie nor most SGI leaders are qualified to counsel people who are suffering from serious issues such as depression, anxiety schizophrenia, domestic abuse, the aftermath of child abuse, substance abuse, or eating disorders. They have NO education or experience with such issues -- and yet they act as if they're experts, giving advice that they're not qualified to give, and hurting the people whom they think they're helping!

5. The skill that Katie and certain SGI leaders have -- is manipulation. Katie was a real estate agent, an excellent saleswoman. Linda Johnson is a prosecuting attorney. In both those professions, you need to be persuasive, good at using words to twist and spin -- and manipulative. A skilled lawyer or salesperson can sense their customer's, or a witness's vulnerabilities. They know what buttons to push, how to confuse the person, how to mess with his perceptions of reality. The poor customer's buying something he doesn't need or want, or a person's confessing to things she never even did -- and the poor person doesn't even know what hit her! Like lthomas's friend, they may know that they're being bamboozled -- but not how to stop it. The "persuasive" person is like a tsunami wave that just rolls over them.

Someone who is really qualified to counsel abuse victims does the opposite. A qualified counselor would help the abuse survivor explore his or her own truth. The survivor would be given the space to share what he or she really experienced, felt, wanted, didn't want -- rather than having the advisor's scenario rammed down the survivor's throat.

Please, avoid getting "guidance" from SGI leaders! They do NOT care what you want, or what is good for you! They have little or no training in advising anyone with serious concerns. They will not keep what you tell them confidential. And if you ever criticize SGI, they will use your problems to discredit you! All they want is an opening to push their agenda -- to get you more devoted to SGI, just like all Byron Katie really wants is your money and admiration.

It is evil, the way people like Byron Katie and some SGI leaders take people who are hurting, who have been abused -- make fake promises of "Sure, do what we say, and you can be happy!" -- and then re-abuse them.

Tsukimoto, did you tell your friend Mary that Linda Johnson is not just any lawyer, but a prosecutor for the State of California? That ought to be a great scary story around the campfire.

I am actually very appalled that Johnson would talk that way. It's the year 2010, for Ikea's sake! It reminds of the old-fashioned, backward, thinking that rape is always the victim's fault. Who wants to be raped? Who wants to be molested? How the hell any chooses this type of pain??

I am very appalled that this is a highly educated woman talking like this. Where did she get her law degree? University of Phoenix?

As for Byron Katie and SGI, well compare SGI to any other organization. Falun Gong and SGI are very similar (plus both espousing Buddhist ideals), SGI and $cientology as well (money, of course, is the big giveaway, but how about how chanting or an e-meter can wipe away all of the world's problems?). If there is one thing missing in the list, it's the need for an enemy. I don't know Byron Katie well enough to see if she has a scapegoat, but Scientology has psychiatry, Falun Gong has the medical establishment, entertainment, martial arts, and other forms of Buddhism. Hare Krishnas hate the mainstream Hindus. SGI hates other forms of Buddhism, especially Shoshu. The list can go on.

Ithomas, I can relate to the things that you are happy that you don't have to do anymore!

tsukimoto, as usual you have made some very good points! I have liked your recent posts as well as the ones from the others.

I'd like to add my two cents.

Things I have done since leaving SGI:

1) Made new friends.
2) Re-connected with old friends.
3) Bought lots of new clothes.
4) Made more money.
5) Saved more money.
6) Organized my time better.
7) Worked harder.
8) Played more.
9) Become closer to my sister (a non-member).
10) Become closer to my husband.
11) Listened to more music.
12) Seen more movies.
13) Kept my house neater.
14) Been friendlier.
15) Been nicer to people I meet without always thinking about shakabuku or whether or not they might like to chant. Being a member of SGI affects all your relationships with people you see everyday, both members and non-members, as well as with strangers that you meet.
16) Cooked healthier food.
17) Been less quiet.
18) Taken two important trips. The first one was to New York. My sister and I used to spend summers with our relatives in beautiful upstate New York when we were teenagers/young adults. Last year we went on a trip to New York and saw many old friends and relatives that we hadn't seen for many, many years. It was a great experience to reconnect and re-new these friendships from my pre-chanting days. The second trip: we spent the holidays with my husband's mother and many siblings and nieces/nephews in another state. For all these years, I insisted that we spend Christmas here. But it was my idea to go, and for the first time I really became close to his family. We now continue to communicate very often by e-mail or facebook. These two trips really seem significant to me when I think about how my life is now without SGI.
17) etc. etc.

I think in general these small changes indicate that I feel better about myself. I have regained and continue to regain clear thinking, confidence, better focus, and a sense of freedom.