Since I left the SGI I am less neurotic. I don't yell at my kids as much and I don't try to fake being a perfect parent either. I seek information and encouragement from fellow parents rather than from "senior leaders" or Ikea. I also clean my house and realize that what is going on in my daily life is manageable and can be improved by me without hours of daimoku or humiliating guidance. I have changed poison into medicine by myself without daimoku. I learn important life lessons from mistakes even when the realizations are painful. I have much less guilt about everything, and much more empathy for other people without filtering everything through Gagkai glasses.

Yeah, there isn't that instant crush of people that you would get at meetings, but the people I do have as friends are open and honest without all the chanting sessions and judgment of "are you working for Cousin Rufus? are you being a Bodhisattva of the Earth? (bullsh***er of the Earth was more like it).

We really and honestly can improve our own lives and contribute to a peaceful world without the gross misinterpretation of Buddhism from the SGI. Great posts everyone!

sushigirl, you are so right!

Since my husband doesn't post here, I would like to tell about HIS after-SGI expereience (hope he doesn't mind!)

My husband joined about 25 years ago in Chicago (maybe he knew you, wakatta1!) He became a junior hancho, a district leader (he skipped hancho), and then a chapter leader. For the last few years, he has not been happy with SGI. He was always so angry. When he came home from leaders meetings, he would always be angry, ranting and raving about the things that had gone on at the meeting. Or he would just be astounded at some of the nonsense. In his personal life, there was also some anger. He hated his job, and was very angry about everything that went on at work. He also frequently ranted and raved about his job! He constantly was going on job interviews, but couldn't find anything. Then he got "fired" from being a chapter leader. Everything changed. The anger toward SGI melted away, since he didn't have to deal with those losers anymore. He is very relieved that he doesn't do ridiculous meetings/activities anymore, and swears he will never go back! He cares for his former members and wishes they could see that SGI doesn't practice Buddhism. Two months ago he was offered a new job, so he was able to quit the job he didn't like. He really likes his new job, and comes home every day with a smile on his face, eager to tell me about what went on at work. His life has really changed!

When I read others' experiences about their lives without SGI, I notice the theme of anger while in SGI floating through all of them. I know that I myself was so mad that I had to do activities when I didn't want to, was angry about leaders giving me unwanted advice, was angry about petty relationships/ lying, was angry about having to try to believe in things that I just couldn't accept anymore, etc. Anger towards SGI spills over into all aspects of your life, and people have plenty of things to be angry at SGI for!

Hello. I am new to this. I have been reading your boards for a month. I have been with the Soka Gakkai (SGI) since 2006. I am really starting to feel weird and unhappy about being apart of the SGI. I would like to leave this SGI, and not be bothered by them any longer. I would appreciate any advice on this since I realize that if I leave, there will be a gap in my life where this was once SGI activities. I am wondering how you built your lives, or reframed your life post SGI? How much support will I need to do this. Is it recommended to see a therapist who specializes in deprogramming? Since I have been reading these boards, I feel I have learned so much from all of you. I wonder if anyone can relate to what I am writing about.

I would like to write about why I am wanting to leave. One reason is that they say there is no "guilt" in Buddhism, however, if you don't come to enough meetings or activities, then the message is sent to me that I am not standing up for my life enough. To me, I am realizing this is guilt. I believed at one point that because I didn't go to my district meeting, I really wasn't standing up for my life. That is kind of sad. I would always end up feeling guilty about this and getting more depressed due to the guilt. Sometimes, I would say: chanting doesn't work. The leaders would say: this is like you are saying you don't work. This is BS to me now. I am taking my blinders off, and it isn't easy...but it is very freeing.

When I state my unhappiness with certain members, I am told I am not working hard enough on my human revolution, and not participating enough in SGI activities. I also wonder if my leaders have taken advantage of the fact that I have shared with them that my self esteem is low, or that I tend to get depressed. I wonder if they have been able to turn this around on me.

I no longer want to see my life in terms of my Gohonzon and the practice. I think the Gohonzon is something to be respected, however, I am so tired of feeling like the SGI/Gohonzon is the only way. I appreciate religions that say they are one of many ways to find truth/God. I got the message when I was home visited: why would I want to read about other religions when the SGI encompasses all religions. In other words, it wasn't necessary to have to read anything else than the World Tribune, etc.

I believed chanting was the way to reach my dreams, yet, I see many people everyday who are extremely capable individuals who are reaching their goals without daimoku.

I am also weirded out that almost every book at the SGI bookstore is written by Daisaku Ikeda. To me this smacks of a cult. I remember at a district meeting I went to, someone was angry afterwards that Daisaku Ikeda wasn't brought up in the Explanation of the Practice. I didn't think it was a big deal, but they said it is very important to the guests.

Apparently, the SGI believes in religious freedom. However, it seems like they are for religious freedom when it benefits their practice. It is a contradiction to me, that they believe in religious freedom, but want people to chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, and join the SGI. They want world peace, but the practice of shakabuku is not honest, nor peaceful.

It just doesn't sit well with me that there is so much push for new members. I get sick to my stomach thinking about it.

Recently, someone called me and asked me to read President Ikeda's message at a district meeting. I declined. I told them that I am not in a place right now where I want to do that. She said to me that she would send me some daimoku. I really don't want members to send me daimoku now because I really don't want to get sucked back into the practice.

Some people in the SGI are nice, but I want to leave and get away. Would they truly be my friends on the outside of this practice. I am sincerely doubting that now. How have some of you done it? Do you agree with some of the things I have written about? Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. I am now thinking there are other ways to be happy and not be apart of the SGI.

@quiet one

I can relate to your husband's plight, you are sort of describing how things were for me during one phase of my practice and the leadership. I felt like a hamster on a wheel. Every day pushing harder and harder, overcoming "obstacles" and slamming into problems that I considered unnecessary (created by leader's arrogance in some instances) I think I am safe in saying that I was in the far western suburbs of the city for a long time during my practice and if he was in the leadership then we probably crossed paths. I reached my peak around the same time as the Temple was dedicated in Aurora and slowly drifted away in the ensuing eight to ten years thereafter.

Yes! The anger was certainly contagious. There was the passive-aggressive posture that members took towards the han/chapter leadership, and that same passive-aggression directed upwards from the leadership levels. At my level I was at was kind of caught between shifting continents. Above I had Kool-aid drinkers in the upper leadership (you know, they whisper "yes sensei" when his picture is shown), and underneath I had people with serious doubts in the practice and the organization on one hand, and on the other, the cadre of Japanese wives who lived to do activities and who relentlessly picked away at the american members for not "being serious enough". I got tired of being a referee, being pressed to deliver ridiculous shakubuku numbers (and having my arm twisted to set goals that were unreachable). Overworking and getting burned out on Daimoku knowing that one set of missteps and the District/Chapter position would be taken away. Yep, there were plenty of reasons to be angry I'd say.

@findingmywaytoday

I can guarantee you that if you keep one foot in NSA and try to shift your weight outward you'll get dragged back in both by the guilt-trips and your own doubts sown by the organization. When I split with the organization I told myself that when the SGI/NSA split with the temple and began to manufacture their own Gohonzons, pocketed the money intended for Kosen Rufu and started up their "cult of the personality" that they broke the lineage with Nichiren and lost the protection of the Buddhist Gods. For me that was enough to justify my severing of ties to the organization and it certainly kept me from looking over my shoulder. Years later I don't regret the decision one iota and based upon what I've learned, it seems to have been a valid choice.

So what I'm trying to say is that you are capable of making your own decisions. Don't look to your peers in SGI/NSA to validate your choice, because they will certainly tell you to chant more, do zange, contribute more zaimu and read the ningen kakumei (human revolution). In the meantime you'll be taking a 1 to 2 year detour but will wind right back where you started. When the organization has been compromised you end up doing all of the right things for all of the wrong reasons. The purpose of shakubuku is to help lead people to enlightenment, not to enslave them to an organization that will blow smoke up their dresses and bleed them dry just for the sake of an organization half way around the world which is solely interested in Power and Wealth.

Now, for a little balance. There are many fine people in NSA/SGI. At the core of everyone there you'll find people who are conscientious, and spiritually moved to accomplish positive things. But if the organization itself is warped, even the "good" people will end up pursuing bad ends.

Example - I don't know how many times I was advised to tell members that if they 'stretched' and donated more than they could afford, that they would absolutely get a big benefit or a breakthrough. The inferrence was if my "faith" was strong enough I would somehow "know" that was the truth. In actuality, I was no more able to crystal ball gaze on that than anyone else in the organization. It was not encouragement, it was to mislead people under the guise of faith. I couldn't do that. But during the campaigns, those kinds of guidance were thrown around all of the time.

I'm ranting now so I better stop <grin>

Wakatta1

For findingmywaytoday:

I say go with your gut feelings.

Also, some of us do need more support than this forum. Although. this forum is one of a kind for English speakers. You won't find anything else like it. I feel very lucky (see I didn't say fortunate) to have found this discussion. Additionaly, I found a workshop for former cult members through the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA). Actualy the one I am going to attend is for adults that grew up in a cult. But they sponsor local montly meetings for all former cult members. I also do a group therapy for formal cult members through someone who is specialized in deprogramming. I think I needed a little more help. Some people are fine with this forum (or the yahoo group). I couldn't separate from SGI successfully the first time. I would like to get it right this time around. If you feel you need more intensive intervention, I think a therapist would only help the transition. It doesn't have to be a therapist who does deprogramming neccessarily. It can be someone who can work with you on the core issues such as self worth and depression.

If you use the logic or worldview of SGI then you will be sucked back in everytime. They want you to be dependent and not to have a brain of your own. They want you to feel guilty. It benefits them to keep you in their midst. Not all the members are vicious or coniving. But they all have a weakness somewhere where they need a cult. I don't have those weaknesses as much as I used to. But I had to own up to the two way street of being a former cult member and what may have tied me to a group like SGI. No I am not beating myself up. But if I don't change my behavior I will end up in another cult.

Please keep us posted on your progress

evergreen

@findingmyway, please listen to what evergreen is saying. I should also, like to note that I to started practicing in 2006 and experienced everything in your post that you just wrote about. I can certainly empathize with the way you feel as far as feeling a sense of loneliness in your life once you decide to leave the SGI (or if you decided at all, I don't want to make it seem as if I am pressuring you because that is not what I am about) I did and I still do, yet I am taking it one day at a time. As I write this to you I am almost shaking because you sound just like me in the post that you wrote. I too as almost everyone in this post revealed a lot of personal things to the SGI and had it used against me. There are times when I still regret but that is slowly going away and in time will go away with you to. Will there be a sense of sadness, guilt, and loneliness as times goes by? Probably yes. I say probably because I don't want to assume on your part and make it seem like I know you inside and out. I can tell you this, the more and more you get away from it the more you will see how free you are. As I myself realized this, feelings of justified anger overcame me because I knew I had been sold a dream and knew in my heart that some that convinced me to get my Gohonzan knew damn well what they were doing when they kept rushing me to get it. In other words they really did not have my best interest at heart. This is not to say that everyone in the organization was like that, because I believe that they are/were just as much of a victim as I were to and did not or still don't know any better. But, trust and believe I know in my heart that some knew (my sponsor most definitely) knew that it was only a numbers game, and also on their behalf they wanted to get a "benefit" for introducing me to the practice. I also agree with evergreen as when he (or she?) says that this is the best forum in English to discuss our afflictions and the way that the SGI has impacted our lives. I will say this. For awhile I could not bring myself to say that I was in a cult because I was somewhat ashamed and foolish to admit that this could happen to me, however a couple of weeks ago I was talking to my therapist (who is an awesome man, who has allowed me the freedom to put things in perspective while helping me, to help me find myself (notice how I did not say he helps me find myself, that is something the the SGI used to preach) who finally admitted to me that I was in a cult. I had never felt so free before he finally admitted to me what I already knew. I am in a good place right now yet I am sad. It's ok as I have stated before in this forum yet at times I get scared and lonely because there is a part of me that feels as if I will never feel that rush of "happiness" as I did as a result of being in the SGI, but I know that it is all a lie and that I have been brainwashed. In spite of the mind tactics that the SGI used to keep me in I know that things are going to get better as time goes by. If someone ask me if I am happy I don't know what I will say. Happy is a word right now (I am so serious) that has been barred from my vocabulary. It is sad that I feel this way but it is what it is. I don't know if I will ever be sincere using that word again, but I know that I am going to be alright and if I cannot use that word again then can always say that, "I'm in a good place right now". As I write this post findingmyway. I am filled with emotion and really want to reach out and give you a hug. I am grateful for everyone's post but there was something about yours that touched me in a way that reminded me of everything that I went through during my four years in SGI.

Quote
evergreen
For findingmywaytoday:

I say go with your gut feelings.

Also, some of us do need more support than this forum. Although. this forum is one of a kind for English speakers. You won't find anything else like it. I feel very lucky (see I didn't say fortunate) to have found this discussion. Additionaly, I found a workshop for former cult members through the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA). Actualy the one I am going to attend is for adults that grew up in a cult. But they sponsor local montly meetings for all former cult members. I also do a group therapy for formal cult members through someone who is specialized in deprogramming. I think I needed a little more help. Some people are fine with this forum (or the yahoo group). I couldn't separate from SGI successfully the first time. I would like to get it right this time around. If you feel you need more intensive intervention, I think a therapist would only help the transition. It doesn't have to be a therapist who does deprogramming neccessarily. It can be someone who can work with you on the core issues such as self worth and depression.

If you use the logic or worldview of SGI then you will be sucked back in everytime. They want you to be dependent and not to have a brain of your own. They want you to feel guilty. It benefits them to keep you in their midst. Not all the members are vicious or coniving. But they all have a weakness somewhere where they need a cult. I don't have those weaknesses as much as I used to. But I had to own up to the two way street of being a former cult member and what may have tied me to a group like SGI. No I am not beating myself up. But if I don't change my behavior I will end up in another cult.

Please keep us posted on your progress

evergreen

I would like to add one thing. Make sure the therapist isn't SGI or an SGI supporter. Anyway, I was able to leave quite smoothly with the encouragement and friendships developed on the net, some of whom I have remained friends with for fourteen years, met, had a few beers and a few laughs, even a few fights. One such friend contacted me today and we had a great set of correspondences. I don't even hate the SGI, the sordid leaders, and the brainwashed members [even though I get threats and slanders, nearly on a daily basis]. Were it not for them, I would not be enjoying the wonderful life I now have. I guess that falls into the category of Buddhist paradox.

Nichijew

For Findingmywaytoday:
Reconnecting with friends who aren't connected with SGI in anyway; essentially part of your pre-cult identity, would be good I think. Those friends or relations who can laugh about anything with you can help you feel grounded.
I was just remembering questioning the practice 2 months from starting (many years ago) and being told by someone who had been 'Home visiting' me regularly, that in his experience people's lives go downhill when they leave. They develop 'loser lifestyles'. So, suddenly my life was going to go downhill after 2 months of trying something out? He really wanted me to believe that.
I once stated rather cheerfully to members that I felt I could suddenly see everything very objectively...except the practice. The 8 members in the room stared at me blankly just standing there still as statues as if they had collectively short-circuited. No answer.... Uh, i guess I let that weirdness slide.
I could never tell if anyone was deliberately trying to be manipulative. These techniques spread like a virus. I just don't think it is wise to trust deep life processes with a person or group of persons who are 'winging it' without any professional training in counseling, never mind the handed down agenda!

First of all thanks to all those who submitted their post-SGI experiences and thoughts.
In my case I would say that I had to get used to a new sort of inner freedom. The dogmatic cloud of SGI bigotry was lifted and I opened myself up to the world in general. To be honest I never did shakubuku as I always felt (even since the beginning of my practice) ashamed of the SGI, its intolerant ways, even the so called cultural contributions i.e. performances at meetings I thought of being utterly embarrassing.
I used my spare time since then to move forward on a professional level and taking part in evening classes for a university degree - something which would have been difficult as academics were looked down at in SGI anyway.

Do I regret anything? No! Actually it is sad that SGI missed the chance of a lifetime after the split. May it be in North America or Europe, SGI failed miserably to build up a western style Buddhism. Instead it decided to take the path of religious bigotry and export religious disputes (may it be Nichiren Shohsu or others) to the West.
I know that there are many western Buddhists of all sorts of traditions and lineages who are eager to leave those quarrels behind. Only people who are not firm in their belief are unable to open up and listen to people of other religious beliefs may they be Buddhist or other.
SGI is now based on conflict and dogmatism and its reason to be is SGI and Ikeda nothing more ... nothing less.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2010 05:47PM by Rothaus.

@Rothaus In the beginning I used to shakabuku everyone (the first 6 months of my practice, then very infrequently afterwards) but then I stopped because I did not want to bring someone else into the hell that I had been through. Thank goodness the handful of people that I shakubuked never got their Gohonzans. If that happened I would never feel right knowing that I ruined somebody's state of mind. The thing that really got to me was the fact that some people would actually introduce people for selfish reasons and not accept any accountability. Their excuse was, "so what if I introduce people for selfish reasons, eventually I will work for world peace only and that will prove that their is no right or wrong in Buddhism only the law of cause and effect". I was appalled that someone could actually think that way. Another stupid reason that a person told me that Buddhism worked was when, " a guy was a drug addict and wish for cocaine, and police were actually chasing a drug dealer who was trying to get rid of his drugs. He threw bags of cocaine out of the apartment window and it actually landed in the window of the guy who wanted cocaine! So anyways the guy who got the cocaine actually chanted and got what he wanted, realized that drugs were bad in the end and started propagating "Cousin Rufus'. I could not believe this. I may not have been practicing that long but I knew that that was not what Buddhism was all about. I cannot say this enough, but every time I post something to this forum, I am so glad that I left the organization.