Guys I just have one BIG problem - what are we going to DO about it though?

Simply Copy & Paste the infromation won't do the trick in the long run. I too was unaware of the whole financial aspects and yes by all means we should get the information out.
At the moment its like "oh look what I just read, look what I just found". I can just imaginge how SGI officials read this saying we are a bunch of uncontent ex-members.

Do not get me wrong we need this information too (like the finacial aspects). But what does SGI base itself on? The experiences. So I just do not hope that anyone out there feels that his/her story is irrelevant just beacuse it is not about SGI's real estate affairs (boy and I would want this being made public). I say this so the info we gather here stays in balance in terms of what realy is going on behind the scenes (the big money) and the little things that people out there can relate to saying 'hang on - that was the same for me'.

It was a sentence in Evergreens coment that made me think a bit you know ... her parents. Evergreen wondering if they had difficulties to socialise with others, as Evergreen just knows them as having been in SGI for ever.
I just thought to myself ... no Evergreen they propably did not have those problems. Not more and not less than anyone else at least. Its just that in SGI (at least thats what it was like for me) you do get to meet people from all walks of life, some in fancy professions - that attracts people. Slowly, very slowly (an I resisted to that during my time as a member) your 'old' social life is being replaced by the life in SGI. You do not meet freinds - you have to go to a meeting. Weekend with the family - might come over, but I will be late due - to a meeting. Going out partying having fun and heck with it even get drunk - now you do not want to do that, but spend this valuable time idoing activities for Kosen-Rufu instead. Sometimes I think its like a story from the twilight zone so many people in SGI are in different reality. People who actually did go out and left out a meeting for a socialsing event were slightly looked down at as being superficial and not devoted enough.

So many single men and women (no matter which orientation) desperate to find a partner - what is the guidance? Chant for a partner you can do Kosen-rufu with. So they sit for hours and chant, go to an endless row of activities (time goes by and they are politely asked to leave the Youth divison) and end up wasting the best years of their lives to SGI ----- most of the time still single. Singles that can devote their time to Kosen-rufu now.

You want a better job? Chant for it. Years later they are still in their (what they felt) was a sh..y position, but now for the sake of kosen-rufu and content that their hard earned money will contribute to world peace - my a... Instead of placing their butts in maybe evening classes and quality themselves they go to meetings and expensive training coures which of course does not allow them to take a weekend off or go on a nice holiday (and even - maybe - meeting their future partner).

They go out and consolidate members who are having 'difficulties' - giving a rats a.. to maybe some of their closest family mebembers having even more sever problems like cancer etc ... the only consolidation they have for them is to chant and read Mr. Ikedas giudance and SGI experiences - there is something illogical here by the way.

THIS is what really makes me angry. After leaving SGI I found a partner (now having the same old problms in apartnersip that everyone else has with ups and downs, qualify myself not knowing if it is worth it - but I live again. and I am still a Buddhist finding out their is value and truth in every faith).
I am not surprised that SGI grows on a slower rate - they are so occupied with themselves to the extent that some are not in contact with the real world anymore - and that worries me big time.
Sorry folks if this was a long one.

Sorry Anticult and Nichijew by no means I want to minimise your contributions - hope you do not take it the wrong way what I am trying to say. I still have family in SGI and I am worried for them.

Rothaus, you ask what we are accomplishing with our posting, and cut and paste? Well, it's true SGI is not going to just disappear any time soon. Even if every SGI member in the world up and quit and nobody ever joined again, Ikeda would still have his billions and the power that goes with them. Nor will we sway the True Believers. As Nichijew said, it doesn't matter how much evidence there is against SGI; they will never believe that SGI could be wrong about anything.

What we CAN do is provide support for those who are considering leaving, or who have left. For those who may be thinking about joining SGI, we are at least presenting information that SGI will never tell them. I think that helping even a handful of people avoid SGI's trap is accomplishing something. (Dare I say -- "a good cause"?) And who knows, it could even end up being more than a handful. This information can be on the Rick Ross site for years. Who knows who, or how many people might eventually see it.

Who knows what post might be the one that makes someone reconsider joining SGI. Some people may be more influenced by personal experiences. It really affected me to read about Ikeda's billions. When I first posted, I thought of SGI as just clueless, leaders making decisions that alienated many members. "If they just realized," I thought, "they wouldn't act this way."

Well, I was the one who didn't realize -- SGI's like an iceberg, with that little part sticking up from the ocean surface -- and this whole mass that we can't see under the surface. I thought of the senior SGI leadership as clueless, bumbling...when the truth is, they're anything but that! They knew exactly what they were doing. They can get people who are struggling to put groceries on the table -- and con them into giving money to a billionaire -- and feel good about it!

I thought I wasn't brainwashed. How could that be, when here I am criticizing SGI!? And yet I go to that stupid GakkaiOnline and on one level, I can see how manipulative and awful some of those posts are. There was the one where this little kid chanted for her friend's earache to go away, and of course it did. There was the one where this person went to the temple, Nichiren Shoshu, for a service, and just felt the life force drain out of them....just felt the presence of eeeevil. Part of me was laughing at the cheesier experiences....and yet part of me was buying into some parts of some experiences, and was missing SGI! Damn, if that's not brainwashing, what is?

Rothaus, I am sorry about your family worries.

And the truth is, SGI, DOES warn members away from "anti-SGI sites." Why? Same reason the government of North Korea does not allow internet. Cult leaders and despots DON'T want people to know what they're really doing. With SGI, it's interesting not only that they were (and I would expect still are) monitoring what was said about them -- but that this was a secret. So many secrets to hide.

This is from Mark Rogow's Kempon Hokke Blog on www.fraughtwithperil.com

-------------------------Begin Quote-----------------------------------------------------------------------
With the increasing popularity of the Internet, SGI found itself with a
potential problem. No matter how much brainwashing is done at the SGI
meetings (zadankai), the members with the access to Internet may be
exposed to all kinds of alternate ideas and opinions as far as Buddhist
doctrine is concerned and, what's worse, they may be exposed to the
truth about SGI and its leader Daisaku Ikeda. These things, while
carefully suppressed within the SGI cult, may find their way in through
the back door of the Internet and possibly corrupt the unity and
dedication of the followers which the cult leaders are trying so hard to
achieve.

I was involved in starting the "Intenet Commitee" in Philadelphia. SGI
purchased a separate telephone line and a Netcom account. Several
"dedicated" members with the Internet access were recruited to monitor
a.r.b.n, collect "weekly statistics" (exactly like what Soren is doing)
and the offending posts. All data was sent on a weekly basis to Ian
McIlraith (I think he is SGI USA Youth Division chief) in LA. The whole
operation was done in secrecy and no one was supposed to be aware of it
besides the members of the "Internet Commitee", Joint Territory leaders
and some leaders of Anti-Danto group (eventually the AD and Internet
groups were combined). In the beginning all the posts were e-mailed to
Mr. McIlraith for approval (I still have his letter praising these
"efforts")

It is curious to consider the degrees of the "offense". While any issue
regarding the Buddhist doctrine was TOTALLY ignored and considered
irrelevant, the most offensive articles were considered those that
criticized Daisaku Ikeda, and then the SGI cult itself. The TRUTH was
not even an issue at all. The most important thing was to defend Ikeda
and SGI, no matter what.
-----------------------End of Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------

Cutting and pasting some stuff is very helpful in many ways.
First off, there is so much info, one can never read it all.
Also, tons of stuff gets deleted from the internet, so its good to have an archive of it in a safe place, like this thread.
SGI has tried to get information like this deleted from the internet, but its here.

A mix of personal experiences, as well as factual data is a good mix.

And for any SGI propagandists who monitor this thread...
Its the terrible behavior of SGI that has created your problems.
Its the lies by SGI about their financials, which have created the issues.

Its the sickening egomania of Ikeda that is the real problem. Ikeda is truly a sick person, to the level of malignant narcissism.

SGI deserves to be lumped in with Scientology. As a matter of fact, SGI is far bigger than Scientology, and far richer, and smarter. In reality, SGI is even more dangerous than Scientology to the average person.
SGI hides itself behind its perversion of "Buddhism", when in fact its just a money-maker for Ikeda and his family and cronies. SGI is a huge fraud.

The way to expose SGI, is to expose the SGI indoctrination techniques, and their financial exploitations.

When Ikeda dies, then Ikeda II will take over, and keep promoting Ikeda #1.
With the amount of assets of SGI, unfortunately it will be around for many years, it will be self-propagating for a long time. They could put a gorilla in charge of SGI, and it would keep running, its a big machine.

The SGI billions are managed by professional hired money-managers, who literaly earn millions a year. That is a fact.
So SGI is really just a multi-billion dollar investment trust slush-fund for those who own it, for now that is Ikeda and his inner circle.

But the facts are clear, SGI-USA is hiding its financial information, means no one should ever give them $1.
The internet information about SGI has exposed what is really going on.

Many hundreds of people are reading these threads, and thousands will over time, and the meme of the TRUTH of SGI will spread, based on the facts.

also, what could bring SGI down to size, is when former SGI insiders come forward, and tell what has really gone on inside of SGI.
Some Ex-SGI could come forward with documents, and do a full whistleblower on SGI, with some news reports, like 60 Minutes and exposes like that.

It won't end SGI, but could really cut it down to size.
But of course, SGI still has their billions and billions they are going to be sitting on for many years.
Whoever wins the war to take over SGI after Ikeda dies, will be the new king of SGI.
The inner fight for the SGI billions will be unbelievable.

Its so weird that I wrote this whole diatribe earlier and my internet connection to this site was cut off....I digress

Nichijew - I am sitting around thinking about psychosis, PTSD, and mood disorders. I used to work in the mental health field. Also, my parents are of Jewish descent...again I digress. I am now wondering if I will recover from allowing myself to be brainwashed. Did I see more mental health problems in the SGI? There are more people that are open regarding their diagnoses during the last couple of years, myself being one of them. Unfortunately, it runs in my family so I can't entirely blame the SGI. Although I can see how the SGI aggrevated things for me. I don't remember seeing more than a couple of members with schizophrenia, or enhanced psychosis. I did see of lot of people with mood issues, dependency issues, delusional or grandiose thought content. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. Its my karma and I am successfully working on it.

Rothaus - I am also thinking what is my role and what should I do. Should I be blunt and strict the way Nichiren was, or should I adapt to the modern era. I also don't want to be as militaristic as Ikeda is, denouncing this and condemning that. That has alienated me as much as my problems with Ikeda being promoted as our saviour.

What to do, what to do.

another fascinating thing about this thread, are the very very few posts by SGI apologists and propagandists. There have been a few, done in a fairly subtle way, to try and discourage posting and research.

But the reason they are not posting, is the SGI internet apologists know they can't get away with their standard methods on this type of forum.
Also, there are too many FACTS in this thread, and they cannot touch them.
If they try to dispute the SGI financial can of worms, SGI cooks its own goose.

So someone instructed them to not post anything, which is very common in these groups.
And of course, many SGI members don't read anything other than SGI material.

For Evergreen:

From Establishing the Correct Law and Securing thePeace of the Land:

"How can we do any good thing without criticizing them?"

"We should rather eliminate (this one sided teaching) than perform ten thousand prayers."

"You should stop the fountainhead, you should cut out the root."

"If you wish to realize the peace of our country quickly, you should eliminate them (mistaken doctrines) from our country."

"If the four kinds of devotees of all the countries of the world stop making offerings to the bad priests and take refuge in the Good Law, no calamity will take place."

and finally, in conclusion (very last sentences).

"I will not satisfy myself with the pleasure of believing the Right Law. I will lead others by correcting their mistakes."

Were Nichiren alive today, I have no doubt he would focus his attention on the SGI rather than the Pure Land, Zen, True Word, Precepts, and Tendai schools.. The non-members here, people like Anti-cult, are no different than benevolent Wheel Turning Kings or Buddhist Gods who have come to assist us.

Even if this stuff is beaten into your head from childhood, there's still hope of getting away relatively unscathed. I officially joined the SGI around 6 months old, learned gongyo (prayers) at 7, and can remember having a photo of Ikeda in my room around that same age. In fact, my first name was actually given to me by Ikeda. I believe it's a fairly common thing in Japan to request Ikeda to name your expected child. I've briefly considered changing my name, but it would be a hassle at this point since I'm well into my thirties.

I was very active in the SGI: being in the brassband and doing gymnastics at conventions, shakubuku, various leadership positions. But, even after all of that, I had no problem walking away. It was a combination of seeing deception and corruption with my own eyes, reading plausible things on the Internet, and being turned off by the ever-growing worshipping of Ikeda (the guy who named me!). I don't harbor any ill feelings toward my parents. In fact, I feel kind of sad for them. They've given a lot of their time (and money) to the SGI but are far from living what I would call quality lives in their golden years. So where is all that good fortune they were supposedly building up by fighting for kosen-rufu?

And then there's my sibling, who is a completely different story from me. My sibling is way into the SGI (and I mean WAY into it). We can't even have a conversation without the SGI or chanting or Ikeda being brought up. And this sibling gets offended if I even say the slightest negative thing about the practice.

Like I said, reading things on the Internet was one of the things that helped me in my decision; a decision I am so glad I made. So I agree that posting this stuff is very important. And a lot of times I just post things straight out of the World Tribune - they aren't transcriptions from any secret SGI meetings. The SGI can't protest - it's all propaganda that they themselves regularly shove down the members' throats (and encourage you to share with others).

Hi everybody. This forum is interesting. I joined the SGI (NSA) in 1974 when I was 15. I was indoctrinated like everyone else, and had some pretty nasty experiences along the way with activities and the leadership etc. I left about 15 years ago in 1994 having developed a mental disorder which I believe was partly due to the unreasonable expectations of SGI tenets.

If I was an active member, any problem I had was due to my karma or my imperfect "faith". Any paranoia or disillusions I had about leaders was only due to my own "dirty mirror". Honestly, I'm amazed that I didn't commit suicide at some point because the level of gossip due to trusting unscrupulous leaders with private and very painful information for "guidance" purposes was almost too much to bear. During all my years with SGI, I think I met one or two people that I could possibly trust, and even they betrayed my confidence.

In all sincerity, the manipulation and fawning over a young woman who was admittedly very vulnerable showed to me the sick side of people and the SGI. One experience which defined this was that once after a chapter meeting, the young people were encouraged to jump naked into a pool during a "pool party" by the shibucho. We of course declined, but what a thing to do given the "precious" status we had as YWD.

Many other experiences led me to distrust leaders, especially when we learned that the general director was having an affair with the then national YWD chief, and they both subsequently "disappeared".

Everyone is human yes, but that same YWD leader had given me guidance to be a "good girl" and don't do anything she wouldn't do, as I confided that I had some personal problems with a YMD.

How laughable!

Sorry for the rant, it's been pent up for a while.

Because I wouldn't follow guidance, I was "disowned" by my HQ chief, who was a japanese transplant. Consequently, I was shunned by many of my fellow members. I guess they wouldn't be following guidance either if they associated with me.

It was a rocky ride at best, being praised as a wonderful byakuren and then ostracized as the worst Byakuren because I got lost..

My most poignant memory was as a kotekitai, we were marched for HOURS in blazing hot sun with few breaks. When we arrived back at the kaikan, I collapsed with heat exhaustion. My japanese territory leader scolded me over the PA system for not being better "prepared" and asked if there were a doctor in the house. This made me feel like the lowest of the low. I also gave many hours of service as a byakuren(what would be the english term for this...andy frain maybe) going without food or water for hours at a time in horrible conditions, only to be scolded that I had not chanted enough daimoku to get me through.

I'm sure this type of abuse is not as bad nowadays, but that it even existed was so dangerous.