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sushigrl
Nichijew, He did say that didn't he....Nichiren made no mention of a gigantic lay organization taking over his religion did he....thanks for reminding me.

Nichiren didn't say this, either:

------beginning of quote, www.fraughtwithperil.com, Kempon Hokke blog, Mark Rogow---------

December 10, 2009

Daisaku Ikeda versus Nichiren Daishonin

"I ask you to become people who are trusted even more than before. Toward this end, you should base your lives on the oneness of mentor and disciple. You must decide that pursuing THE ONENESS OF MENTOR AND DISCIPLE IS THE PRIMARY QUEST OF YOUR LIVES." (World Tribune, 11/06/09 p.1)
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Hmm, "I ASK you"? Smooth! I'm not commanding you....I'm just asking nicely! (Byron Katie often says "I invite you to......" See, the choice is yours! ) But is it really?

Become trusted "even more than before"? Oh, DID you trust me before? How sweet! Trusted by whom, leaders who don't tell the truth themselves? Trusted to do what, give all my time and money to SGI?

"Toward this end"? WHAT end are we going for? The end of a person who gets taken for everything by SGI?

"You must decide that pursuing THE ONENESS OF MENTOR AND DISCIPLE IS THE PRIMARY QUEST OF YOUR LIVES."???????????????????????

I MUST decide this? Why MUST I? Who says? If I MUST DECIDE this, then, I don't really have a choice -- do I?

In other words, the biggest and most important thing in your life must be devoting yourself to a man you most likely will never even meet. A man who doesn't know you, and cares nothing for you, except for the money and unpaid labor that you can give him. How is Ikeda different than Kim Jong Il of North Korea? Kim only wants the people of North and South Korea to adore him -- Ikeda wants the whole world!

Ikeda loves to compare himself to the late Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now, Dr. King, as a Christian minister, may have asked his congregation to devote their lives to God, and Jesus Christ. He may have asked his followers to devote their lives to justice for all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot recall Dr. King ever saying, "Devote your lives to ME!"

Likewise, Nichiren Daishonin tells his followers to "follow the Law, not the person." He strongly advises AGAINST following teachers of incorrect doctrine, corrupt priests, evil friends.

I remember the days of "Soka Spirit," when SGI kept telling members that the high priest Nikken Abe was so evil and wrong because he was telling members that enlightenment came through following him (Nikken) rather than the Law.

And here Ikeda is, telling members that their enlightenment is going to come through following him (Ikeda.) Doing exactly what he criticized the priests for!

The sheer narcissism of that sentence: "You must decide that pursuing the oneness of master and disciple is the primary quest of your life."

Patricia Evans, in her book "Controlling People," writes:

"The person who has defined your experience seems to have failed to grasp that you are a person with your own reality." (page 5)

"When people encounter controlling behavior, they often feel "erased," as if to the perpetrator, they don't exist." also page 5.

"Without a psychic boundary, we would be like drops of ink diffused into a pool of water -- easily absorbed into other people's definitions of us, even other people's purposes. We would come to believe that they are our own without even realizing it."

Toward the end of my time in SGI, I was just starting to feel strange, irritable, spacy, confused, almost dissociated, when I went to SGI meetings. When I read Evans' book, I began to understand why. I felt as if I, Tsuki, were being erased....that my leaders and fellow members could not grasp that I was an individual with my own dreams and goals. They wanted me to be absorbed into SGI, and make its goals my goals....this was making me very uncomfortable, especially this "oneness of mentor and disciple." I began wanting to scream everytime I heard that -- which, actually was a sign that I was HEALTHY, not difficult, nor a doubter, nor a slanderer!

Sorry, leader, you've failed to grasp that I am a person with MY OWN reality, not a drop of ink in the murky pond of SGI!

Yes Tsuki, we became not individuals pursuing our proper individual goals and life paths but people vying for position and status in the organization. I remember being asked for experiences at meetings, and if we didn't have anything that was fresh, we had to concoct something that would be deemed appropriate. I had been to many many many meetings where the only bright spot would be when our favorite "senior leader" would show up with some new "guidance" from President Ikeda that would "inspire" us for a while. Then we would be scolded for our "lackluster results and slipping in faith" attitudes.

My calmest and happiest memories are of New Year's gongyos at the temple..(when I didn't have to do byakuren of course..) don't know why, but there was a serenity and power.

sorry I'm so bitter! Need to get past that.

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sushigrl
sorry I'm so bitter! Need to get past that.

Sushigrl, is it that you are bitter or that you are angry? The truth is, SGI gave us a raw deal! When I joined, I thought I would be studying about Buddhism, chanting, and helping other people. I didn't know that I was going to be manipulated and guilt-tripped into giving time and money to a multibillion dollar corporation!

It sounds like your experiences were much worse than mine (though I did experience the hours in the hot sun practicing with my kotekitai group for the Boston Convention.) But Lord! -- manipulation, shunning, being publicly humiliated for heat exhaustion, hours without food or water, hypocrites with inappropriate sexual boundaries....what a dreadful way to treat a young person! If people did this to my daughter, I'd be furious!

I'm not saying, "be bitter and resentful for years." That'll just make you miserable and do nothing to SGI, but I think at this point, being angry at SGI is reasonable and healthy. I was very angry for about a year after I left. Time, and posting here, has helped me. When I was in SGI, it did not feel safe to be angry or critical of SGI -- here, it is safe to feel whatever I feel, and to have my own opinion.

I do remember the pressure to have an experience to present at a meeting. The attitude seemed to be, if we were practicing properly, we'd have TONS of experiences, testimonials. That's not much help if you are trying your damndest to solve a problem, and nothing is working! I suspect that the pressure just led to lots of exaggerated, concocted experiences.

And as far as experiences are concerned, didn't the Daishonin warn his followers not to expect an easy life? He certainly had a brutally tough life. His practice of Buddhism did not give him easier circumstances, but made it possible for him to persist through hardship -- would that kind of thing qualify as an experience at an SGI meeting?

Sorry I haven't been on lately, been busy with other things . . .

Let me tsukimoto that Nichiren lived in the harsh, bitter conditions while in exile to Sado. In fact, if I were him, I would be tempted to crawl back and say, "No, I was wrong, you guys were right . . ."

But Ikeda, on the other hand, lives in a nice mansion in Tokyo and (as I just found out five minutes ago in this forum) he lives it up like Hugh Heffner once in a while.

At least Heffner publishes a decent magazine (with better articles).

Are we allowed to talk about doctrines and the different schools of Nichiren? I ask because I'm at the point where I would like to live as a real buddhist. Don't get me wrong, I do learn from the postings. I am glad to see that I am not alone.

Also, is it possible that Ikeda is just an ego maniac and that he wasn't being coniving or cunning about things such as how to be a fascist dictator - his extreme, overinflated sense of self naturally has led him to be a cult leader? I ask because I don't know if he actually consulted a manual on how to comand his legions.

Oh, and the SGI is currently promoting "oneness of mentor and disciple" big time, as tsukimoto pointed out. Members are being told that the Western view of him, that of believing he is our mentor and there is a power differential, is incorrect. Now members are being scolded for their so called confused view of "oneness." All one has to do is look at the publications. Ikeda makes comments like "you, my disciples'' all the time! I can't believe people are being scrutinized for extolling the very thinng they are taught. Now I'm fuming!

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evergreen
..
Also, is it possible that Ikeda is just an ego maniac and that he wasn't being coniving or cunning about things such as how to be a fascist dictator - his extreme, overinflated sense of self naturally has led him to be a cult leader? I ask because I don't know if he actually consulted a manual on how to comand his legions.
...

There is no question whatsoever, that Ikeda very carefully studied and copied countless specific techniques of how to command the masses.
Not from a manual, but how things work in the real world.
SGI has literally copied many old-school methods, and added many modern methods.
Its right by the book, and very obvious.
People in that field go out and COPY others who are the best at it.

Same as how when Ikeda manages his billions of dollars he HIRES financial experts at millions of dollars a year.
He hires the best in the world to do his important work for him.
He also clearly has hired some of the best persuasion experts on earth as well, but you won't see their names in annual reports.

SGI is a system of techniques of managing and controlling very large groups of people and billions of dollars. There are many aspects to SGI, most of the real SGI is hidden.

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evergreen
Are we allowed to talk about doctrines and the different schools of Nichiren? I ask because I'm at the point where I would like to live as a real buddhist. Don't get me wrong, I do learn from the postings. I am glad to see that I am not alone.

Dear evergreen:

You don't need an organization to be a real Buddhist, what the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin term, a Bodhisattva of the Earth. There are however both loose and tight associations of Bodhisattvas of the Earth and the Lotus Sutra, unlike the Soka Gakkai, does not differentiate between a "solitary" Bodhisattva of the Earth from one who leads a retinue of billions. The last post on my blog is,

Guidance system fosters doubt

Our Enlightenment and the Buddha's Enlightenment is the same. It is Namu Myoho renge kyo. Unshakeable faith in Namu Myoho renge kyo is itself Buddhahood. Giving and receiving guidance from other "Buddhas" is untenable. The guidance system that some Nichiren sects adopt, especially the Soka Gakkai, whether it is guidance from a priest or a layman, fosters doubt not faith. In one's deep subconscious, one seeking or receiving guidance "says" to him or herself, "If I am a Buddha, a supremely enlightened being, why is it that I need guidance?" This is one reason the Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin stated over, and over, and over again, '"Follow the Law and not persons."

The Bodhisattvas of the Earth, "All Come together to the Buddha" [Lotus Sutra Chapter 15]. One goes to the Original Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni [Gohonzon], the origin of all Buddhas, for guidance.

Just another piece to add to the mentor & disciple propaganda: The 11/27/09 issue of the World Tribune has an experience by a member in California entitled "Always a Victor" where she reminisces about a series of meetings Ikeda held during a 1981 U.S. visit. It reads:


"When SGI President Ikeda came to Malibu, Calif., in February 1981, I was working behind the scenes as a member of the stage crew. I was constantly amazed at how President Ikeda never forgot those of us working behind the scenes, and, as a leader of millions, how he never put on airs. In the middle of a movement, refreshments would suddenly appear for us. President Ikeda would also send messages of encouragement and even come stand backstage with us. I remember thinking 'This is the oneness of mentor and disciple. You stand together, of the same mind, working toward the same goal - kosen-rufu - with each person acting in his or her distinctive capacity to fulfill that mission.' From that time on, I went from being a fan of Daisaku Ikeda to being his disciple."


It concludes:


"I do not regret one moment of my life with President Ikeda as my mentor. I think we can either be a victim in life or a victor. President Ikeda has taught me how to be a victor."


I find it a little hard to believe that the exact phrase "The oneness of mentor and disciple" came into this lady's thoughts back in '81, a full 28 years before the SGI came up with it. She even had the foresight to use the word "mentor" when everyone back then was using the word "master." Interesting...

I think its important to mention that the relationship between a master and a disciple is important in buddhism. Although normaly this relationship is a personal one. The sutdent asks questions the teacher answers, Sometimes this relationship may come to an end the student moves on to another teacher. On the other side the teacher may reject a student. But its a personal relationship 1 to 1.

WE all know that the Ikeda worship is making a joke of this concept. But how should the average SGI member know this. They do not even know of the boddhistwa vows, taking refuge in the buddha, etc etc. The only know what SGI tells them, and what they tell them the "this is buddhism"-sticker is bein attached to.

Also in other buddhist schools which gained popularity in the west this concept is being misuesd as for example in some Tibetan subsects.