A can of coke and a pen and pencil set does not alleviate the pain of 14 hours on one's feet for a "mentor" who has luxury digs. We were taught to be so appreciative of those tokens. President Ikeda probably has a sense of failure when it comes to the U.S, because few of us really bought into that hype for long. Japan and the asian countries are better at herding people for kosen rufu :)

I found this entry, written by dsm, on the "Coercive Persuasion and Undue Influence" Board --rrmoderator's "What are indications that someone is covertly using trance?" thread:

-----Begin Quote, dsm, Coercive Persuasion Board--------------------------------------------------------

When I was studying child development (went into curriculum design for a while) this issue of adrenalin came up. The teacher was really strong against children watching tv because of the study that showed that every single cartoon, including the "nonviolent" ones, would show a sudden impact of sound or image just before the commercial break, and this was deliberately to trigger the adrenalin, which then causes the child to suspend all thought and simply "recieve" a brief message, exactly like that moment so many of us remember from the Kennedy assasination, when we were all hit: that is why we remember insignificant details...

anyway, the adrenalin trigger is a survival mechanism that would not happen normally as often as it does on television, and so we have overloaded children with adrenalin shots before they even reach kindergarten.

This same research that has been used by children's tv programmers could certainly be used by cult-leaders, couldn't it? I think it is always good to step away from the contents of a sermon or speech once in a while and watch the tone and rhetorical techniques.
----------------------------End of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This intrigued me, so I read some more about adrenalin -- a hormone released when a person is startled, or believes that he or she is in danger. This causes both physical and mental changes -- rapid heartbeat and breathing, more blood going to the muscles -- the whole "fight or flight" syndrome. When the "fight or flight" syndrome is activated, you become more alert to your environment -- but your "critical thinking" is turned off. You need to act, notice, remember, react to what's going on in front of you. You don't have time to THINK about what you should do, or why you should do it.

You don't have to be in actual danger; the kids watching the cartoon were not. A loud noise, being startled, being angry, feeling stressed, stage fright -- can be enough to trigger the adrenaline rush.

So how would this apply to SGI? Well, I was thinking of some of the conventions:

--Rah Rah Rah atmosphere, like a pep rally, lots of loud cheering and loud music.

--Many members are performing, so many would be feeling some degree of stage fright. Then, there are the young men who were doing the pyramids on roller skates, which is physically dangerous -- both to the guys who are doing it, and to friends and relatives who are watching them!

--Behind the scenes workers also have anxiety about doing their assigned tasks properly; they're probably tired, dehydrated, hungry, and their leaders may be bawling them out, triggering more anxiety and anger.

At an ordinary SGI discussion meeting:

--Members are encouraged to speak at meetings -- giving experiences, being emcees, giving explanations of various parts of the practice -- many people have anxiety about public speaking.

--Again, sometimes leaders berate the members, which can cause members to feel stress, anxiety and anger.

--The leaders' rants about the Nichiren Shoshu priests also seemed to agitate many members, stirring up rage and even fear toward the priests. Ranting about "disloyal members" serves the same purpose.

So certain SGI activities CAN trigger the release of adrenaline. A person under the influence of adrenaline is going to be more focused and attentive to any message that is given at that time. AND they are less able to think critically about the message. A cult leader's dream! No wonder you see so many people at rallies just cheering mindlessly, no matter what idiocy is being put out there -- it's the brain on adrenaline! And that's not even accounting for influences like the group mentality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2009 04:57AM by tsukimoto.

You're right Tsuki! Also, it's amazing that we would do almost anything to change our karma and "build good fortune" not expecting sometimes for fortune to appear for many years to come until we needed it! We could be broke, ill, homeless, etc and all those conventions would serve as a fortune life insurance policy for sometime in this life, or the next. Don't participate, and you would be damning even your remote relatives for generations backward and forward to the hell of incessant suffering. Imagine...what mind control, what superstition. I'm still hounded by those thoughts.

This forum is very helpful for me. I have just stuffed alot of things inside for so long hoping that they would go away.

Thanks everyone!

no need to thank sushi

comming out of a cult is like detox. it helps to share --- looking at the forums of other cults I come to think that SGI realy IS underestimated at least rick ross offers a forum.

I'd like to add here that coming to this forum made me realize my suspicions as well about the SGI. This is especially true when most of the experiences I have read from other ex-members were almost similar, if not the same as mine.

Here is a thought I'd like to throw out and see what is your opinion.

I have noticed that while SGI is certainly lacking in academic study, they do make up for it in hammering the same principles over and over again. We all talk about mentor-disciple, but I am also referring to other things such as "Who is Shijo Kingo", "What are the 10 worlds", "What does ichinen-sanzen mean?"

For example, when I was living in South Korea and I went to an SGI meeting there, most of the people in the room were either fortune babies or have had the gohonzon for more than 3 years. Yet, one Korean woman and one American kept on explaining to us "The 10 worlds" concept, as if we have yet to be exposed to them. At that time I was thinking this, "If a person has been a practicing Catholic for 5 years and still didn't know who the Pope was, there would be something wrong there. If a practicing Nichiren Buddhist have been practicing for the same time and still didn't even know the 10 worlds at this point, should that be normal?"

Furthermore, I then wonder if there is another dimension into bringing guests to a meeting. Obviously, we all know it is to get more on the bandwagon, but could it also be a tool to reinforce the basics?

For example

Week 1--

MC 1: Good morning! Are there any guests with us today?
Rumiko: Yes, here is my friend Jen who is here for the first time (yay!)
MC 1: I am glad you are here, let me explain to you the meaning of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo . . . ..

Week 2--

MC 2: Good morning! Are there any guests with us today?
Tom: Yes, here is my friend James who is here for the first time (yay!)
MC 2: I am glad you are here, let me explain to you the meaning of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo . . . ..

Week 5:

MC 5: Good morning! Are there any guests with us today?
Syd: Yeah, here is my friend Johnny (yay!)
MC 5: Let me explain to you the meaning of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. After that, we'll kick out the jams, mother--!
(Stupid punk music joke, there)

It's almost like, whenever there is a new guest, they need to be educated on the basics. While the MC are lecturing on the basics of Nichiren Buddhism, the audience have to hear it again for the 3, 5, or 9th time each meeting they go to.

So what do you guys think?

Sushigrl - I have definitely thought about what countires can boast that they have the "best disciples of Sensei." I found that recently the SGI has been focusing on Brazil. Although, the USA national leaders say that they have the members that are best connected the "heart of their mentor." Recently at a large youth meeting the leaders showed clips of SGI Brazil and their thousands of youth at a convention - crazed out of their minds, crying because they felt connected to their mentor in life. The youth leaders then said something about how the youth of Brazil were leading the way for all of us, then tried to make a connection that the American youth needed to match Brazil's fervor for kosen-rufu, etc.

I used to flirt with boys at the convention instead of listening to Ikeda. I was young and didn't care. Now I think there are a few clips on Youtube that show conventions. Won't post the links here in case someone has already done this in the past.

Someone once sent me a clip of President Ikeda leading a "final song" with a fan. When I saw it after all these years, it was really quite scary. This member thought it would be inspirational! There was nothing about him that even exuded peace or harmony or even happiness to me. But then I thought it was my "devilish nature" coming out. Now I think it's just the rational me seeing things the right way.

And how scaary! they want USA people to be like Brazil? There is no possible way that the youth in this country will ever be as hot headed or passionate as Brazilians. It's just not our nature. Why can't they pay attention and value people as they are! But heh, I'm talking about SGI, not a thoughtful group.

Quote
evergreen
Recently at a large youth meeting the leaders showed clips of SGI Brazil and their thousands of youth at a convention - crazed out of their minds, crying because they felt connected to their mentor in life. The youth leaders then said something about how the youth of Brazil were leading the way for all of us, then tried to make a connection that the American youth needed to match Brazil's fervor for kosen-rufu, etc.

YO, American Youth! -- I'm talking to YOU! You need to be crazed and crying and out of your mind -- because if you are, your logic and judgement won't be working so well! We at SGI NEED your brain to be whacked out on adrenaline! Otherwise, how the hell is SGI going to con you into giving all your time and money to us!? C'mon! Don'tcha wanna be having a blast like the Brazilian youth!? Or do ya wanna be dull, boring, party-pooping, critical thinkers, just sitting around with long faces?

------------------------------------------Beginning of quotes---------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Halley, in the article "Brainwashing and Thought Control In the News, But Far From New," (Rick Ross archives), says this:

"Sargant goes on to explain that emotional reactivity is crucial in thought control and behavior change. When a person becomes emotionally involved, this person enters a state of mind that is wide open for suggestibility. Sargant, a religious man himself, illustrates this with the example of charismatic ministers of all faiths who are skillful at hooking their audience with emotionally-charged messages. Sargant says ministers are more likely "to achieve success if they can first induce some degree of nervous tension or stir up sufficient feelings of anger or anxiety to secure the person's undivided attention and possibly increase his suggestibility."

John Stacey, in his article, "Cults -- Public Perceptions vs. Research" (also Rick Ross archives) says this:

"Emotional control is another means by which cults change people. Cults manipulate emotions in order to gain compliance. The cult's goal is to convince people that within the group, everything is joyful -- while outside of the cult, there is most often negativity, spiritual blindness, misery and despair."
--------------------------End of Quotes-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I first joined SGI in the eighties, I thought Buddhists were calm, serene people. I didn't know what to make of SGI meetings where people acted so excited! Leaders instructed us to behave that way -- especially when guests were present. During the eighties, we also had many conventions and large meetings -- and these meetings made our high-school pep rallies look subdued. This rah-rah-rah atmosphere at meetings seemed manipulative and phony to me...and I wish now that I had heeded my discomfort with it. Why didn't I? Possibly because I'd come from a family that was uncomfortable with showing emotions, even positive ones -- so I felt that my discomfort with SGI was just that I was too inhibited from growing up in such a family. I thought that the problem was me -- that I just needed to loosen up! Well, maybe I did -- but it is also true that SGI DOES deliberately arouse members' emotions for the purpose of manipulating the members.

Biologically, stimulating feelings of fear, excitement, anger, anxiety DOES stimulate adrenaline, and CAN increase attention and receptivity to a message. SGI IS deliberately arousing members emotions at meetings -- in order to make their brains more receptive to SGI's messages.

They do it in many ways -- touching and uplifting experiences, creating situations where members may be hungry, exhausted, or thirsty, criticism from leaders, the anxiety of having to perform or speak in front of a group, hearing talk about the evil Nichiren Shoshu or disloyal SGI members. Just being with people who are very excited -- or angry -- also can push you toward feeling the same way.

Guess what -- it works! At least temporarily. THAT was why I couldn't leave! The emotionality of the meetings felt creepy....and yet hooked me at the same time!

That is yet another weapon and tool use by SGI on its own people.
Fear.
Damnation and hellfire.
Of course, SGI is not the only religion to use those techniques, but SGI has refined those superstitions to their own advantage.
There are many sects and cults who literally tell their members that if they leave the sect, they are going to get CANCER or some horrible thing is going to happen to them or their children.
The cult is using fear to control people, as fear is the best way to manage a population.

Quote
sushigrl
You're right Tsuki! Also, it's amazing that we would do almost anything to change our karma and "build good fortune" not expecting sometimes for fortune to appear for many years to come until we needed it! We could be broke, ill, homeless, etc and all those conventions would serve as a fortune life insurance policy for sometime in this life, or the next. Don't participate, and you would be damning even your remote relatives for generations backward and forward to the hell of incessant suffering. Imagine...what mind control, what superstition. I'm still hounded by those thoughts.

This forum is very helpful for me. I have just stuffed alot of things inside for so long hoping that they would go away.

Thanks everyone!

Many of those exact same techniques are used in LGAT seminars, and that technology of persuasion has advanced greatly over the decades.

Its also directly from behaviorism. They get people into "peak states" and then they LINK those peak states to SGI and Ikeda. Its conditioning with repetition.
Its based on the conditioned response, like Pavlov's dogs salivating when a bell rings.

It would not be surprising if people thought back carefully to older SGI rallies, and they could probably find specific TRIGGERS that were used.

Images, symbols, words, music, slogans, late night rallies.

Its all been very well understood from the early 1900's, and was used in propaganda in the 1930's in Germany, and beyond in the 1950's in Korea and the east.
It would not even be surprising to find something in the SGI rallies, where they even literally ring a BELL at a certain moment, and link that to something they are trying to install in people's minds.
Those SGI rallies were cruder in the past, and more blatant, as mentioned that even had Stalinist propaganda images abd methods being used.

Ikeda and his cronies would understand all of the old school mass persuasion methods going back to the earliest years of the 1900's, 1930's, 1950's and beyond.
The SGI mass rallies could be analyzed and compared to other mass rallies that are used by other groups.

Quote
tsukimoto
... -- but it is also true that SGI DOES deliberately arouse members' emotions for the purpose of manipulating the members.

Biologically, stimulating feelings of fear, excitement, anger, anxiety DOES stimulate adrenaline, and CAN increase attention and receptivity to a message. SGI IS deliberately arousing members emotions at meetings -- in order to make their brains more receptive to SGI's messages.

They do it in many ways -- touching and uplifting experiences, creating situations where members may be hungry, exhausted, or thirsty, criticism from leaders, the anxiety of having to perform or speak in front of a group, hearing talk about the evil Nichiren Shoshu or disloyal SGI members. Just being with people who are very excited -- or angry -- also can push you toward feeling the same way.

Guess what -- it works! At least temporarily. THAT was why I couldn't leave! The emotionality of the meetings felt creepy....and yet hooked me at the same time!