First off I'd like to thank every one for their support (tSukimoto,Awaken7,Rothaus,quietone,the anticult and others) because this forum has become somewhat of a safe haven for me, given that I decided to leave I decided to leave 96 hours ago. A lot is still going through my head and in some ways I still feel brainwashed even though I know bad things will not happen to me since I've decided to leave. I can honestly say without a doubt that, at some point and time or another I have experienced or seen everything that some other member has gone through. Mav, you are so right what the leaders did were emotionally cruel and at that time when the breakup was painful that is when I really began to feel like the SGI was my anchor, in spite of the fact that I never felt right about their guidance. It was also a painful time in my life becasuse, the person who shakabukued me was feuding with me as well and I had another friend who was using me as well. When they say it comes in threes it really does. I suffered a lot because of those events as a result at I lost a lot of weight, pulled out my hair and suffered the worst case of anxiety that no one should ever have to go through. It got to the point where my doctor put me back on prozac. Eventually I healed but not fully. I thought the only way to ease the pain was to immerse myself in SGI activities, sometimes it helped but for the most part not really. To this day I still have a lot of pain over this. Not because I was dumped- no I could have dealt with that. That is part of life but because of the way it happened and the support that I got from my members. I may sound melodramatic but it is a feeling that I would not wish on my worse enemies. I can honestly say this though, ever since I have made my decision to leave, the pain that I've felt about that whole situation has subsided some, almost to the point where I am not as angry anymore. I know I am going to be okay. Will I still chant? Maybe. Everday?
probably not, but I know there are some people in the Bay Area, who used to practice and only chant now, so I will reach out to them.


Quietone said: A couple of years ago, the "Mentor-Disciple" relationship started being cramed down our throats. I always enjoyed reading President Ikeda's writing, but I never was a fanatic, not even close. Actually, I didn't understand why people were so nuts about him. It just got worse and worse. Articles in the World Tribune focused on subjects like "when I first accepted President Ikeda as my saviour-opps, I mean mentor". About a year ago or so, I went to a big meeting, and Danny Nagashima said "The only way to true happiness is through the mentor-disciple relationship." So many people at that meeting looked enthralled. I felt very alone. I was a member of SGI, not a disciple of President Ikeda! I liked to chant and do gongyo. Those are two subjects that SGI doesn't talk about much anymore.

I can definitely relate to this. When I was introduced to the practice back in 06, president Ikeda was not the focus. 4 months later he became the entire focus of the organization. I remember in March of 08, I had brought my sister to a youth rally at this big Theater in Oakland. All of the seats on the lower half of the theater were fill and hordes of people walking in all directions were going up to the second part of the balcony. At the entrance where the ushers seat you, they began to cram this little piece of paper down our throats asking us to fill it out for Sensei, while we were standing. Nothing was organized. No tables to fill out the piece of paper. I explained to one of the ushers that with everyone rushing this could present a safety hazard with people crowding around. Also, when you get to the top of the 2nd floor of this theater, if you made one false move, you could have fallen to your death. I told her that in this crowd, I did not feel like feeling out the paper, to which she looked at me with disdain and said, "Oh so you won't do it for Sensei. I did so, but with relutance. There was always something like that going on. If you were having a bad day and you explained it to anyone, not just leaders, they would say something to the effect of "Fight with Sensei, if you immerse yourself in activities then you will win for Kosen-Rufu". That was always the catch line, which is why I decided to leave. I did not feel a connection to President Ikeada and I did not want to. I got sick and tired of living a lie. Issues with my sister and I having problems or a bad grade on a term paper have nothing to do with world peace. I support world peace to the fullest, but not this way.

Quote
Mav
On a day like this, I feel really appreciative of being alive. And I feel that without chanting or attending SGI meetings! :) Like quiet one, I enjoy the spiritual aspect of the Nichiren Buddhism and enjoy chanting. I can really relate to her about not wanting to cut the spiritual connection completely. Does anyone feel like that? One thing I have to say that SGI does (or did) well is that they are good at getting you to practice your spiritual faith on a daily, consistent basis. That’s what I feel is missing from my life now that I’m not a member anymore. I have a need to “hook up” with the spiritual or the universal mind/power, but can’t motivate myself to do it alone. My girlfriend is a Christian and used to go to church actively in Ohio, but out here in LA she hasn’t gone to church in years. I also don’t know if I’m ready to just show up at some Christian churches here.

I feel grateful to be alive when I work in my garden -- and today was a great day for that! Just the sunlight, the breeze, the flowers blooming, the greenery...it's incredible that all this beauty even exists.

Mav, your post made me think about that spiritual connection. I miss that a lot too, just being able to chant with others. I don't know when I'll have that again. The online support has been great to have, but I would also love being able to actually meet with other Buddhists and chant with them.

I've heard of other former SGI members who meet independently to chant and talk about Buddhism. Other former SGI-ers have joined Nichiren Shu. There is no Nichiren Shu chapter in my area, and other ex-SGI members in my area have not been interested in getting together. At this point, I'd even consider checking out Nichiren Shoshu, though I don't know about following a priest -- might be too much like SGI. But, we don't have Nichiren Shoshu here either. I feel no call to be a Christian, despite the prayers of a couple of my Christian friends. So, for now, here I am practicing alone, and I accept that.

I don't regret joining the Soka Gakkai. As Mav said, it did get me to practice my faith on a daily basis. I had good experiences, along with the bad. Maybe I'd have left a few years sooner if I'd known then what I know now. Leaving is not easy -- whether a relationship or a group. Even when you know that things are not working out. Maybe the person or group has different values and goals than you, and they're just not a good fit for your life. Groups, like individuals, can also be abusive. Still, you can see a group or a person's faults and still feel a sense of connection that makes it hard to just leave.

Something makes you want to stay. Fear of change? Fear of being left with a huge hole in your life? Love? That even a bad relationship or organization still meets some of your needs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2009 06:00AM by tsukimoto.

I was wondering for those that have quit SGI, and continue to chant, do you still chant with the same Gohonzan the organization gave to you? Or have you gotten another one? The reasons as to why I ask this question is because, from time to time I would still like to chant. Not twice a day but maybe once a day or 4 to 5 times a week. Please get back to me ASAP
possible with this answer. I was also wondering because, an Area Leader who comes to my district meetings sometimes says that, the Gohonzan is not really ours it belongs to the organization. I really don't want to give it back.

Thanks
lthomas

I kept my Gohonzon, and still chant to it. Nobody from SGI has ever contacted me and asked for it back. If they did, I would tell them that I'm keeping it. I know of former members who have chosen to give their Gohonzons back to SGI -- but this was the choice of the ex-member. They did it on their own initiative; nobody told them to. If you don't want to give your Gohonzon back -- then don't.

@lthomas

I think you are not the only one in this forum continuing to chant. I can only pass on my experience that the reason for me to leave SGI was also because I undertook my own studies – not sticking to the SGI sanctioned curriculum and study material.

I would strongly suggest to get a hold of a book called “Fire in the Lotus” by Daniel B. Montgomery. As it is out of print by now, you should be able to find a copy in a library (or inter library exchange programme). It gives a good overview of Nichiren Buddhism and its history from a more objective point of view.

@tsukimoto
Please allow me to say something about joining Nichiren Shu or Nichiren Shoshu. Again, it most be underlined, that the differences in doctrine between Nichiren Shu and Nichiren Shoshu/SGI are quite substantial.

Certainly one chants in Nichiren Shu, which is called Odaimoku there, and they do issue Gohonzons, but only after a period of thorough studying – I am also in the process of joining Nichiren Shu, but it will take quite a while as the next temple is a distance away. But I am fine with that, to me chanting with others is not the main focus anymore and I doubt it was something Nichiren was worried about. And I rolled up my SGI Gohonzon years ago, did not hand it back yet though.

One difference is that Nichiren is not regarded as a Buddha in Nichiren Shu, Shakyamuni is held in great esteeem and the Lotus Sutra, studying and practising it in your daily life, is the focus. There is no large organisational structure in Nichiren Shu and coming from SGI it is basically back to square one.

For that reason I would also suggest to look into the Nichiren Shu's translation of the Gosho its called “Writings of Nichiren Shonin” by University of Hawai’i Press (Volume 1-5). Not all Goshos being used in SGI/Nichiren Shoshu are being regarded as authentic by Nichiren Shu. Do not start with volume one right at the start, the new Volume 5 seems quite good. Each volume has a theme to it.

So lean back for a while take your time and study Buddhism and if you do have an interest in Nichiren Shu contact them or get a hold of their reading material. It is not a Buddhist school, that will have branches down the road, the effort has to come from you, nobody will pest you or run after you – it is after all a traditional Buddhist school that by the way is quite engaged in religious dialogue.
If one seeks Nichiren Buddhism one should not simply look for a school that has everything SGI may have had just without the SGI in it, but rather take this oppertunity to get the big picture right. You may find that what was preached in SGI as fundamental is being interpreted totaly different by I would now call more traditional Nichiren Buddhists. Espescially the history after Nichirens death is extremly interesting in respect to Taiseki-ji and later SGI. Its ab it laborious but I found it to be worthwhile during the "detoxing" process.
Gassho

Hello everyone, I just decided to join this group just to discuss about SGI. After reading several observations from members here, like Anticult, tsukimoto, Mav and others, I just decided to quit SGI with no turning back! I want to tell briefly my experience with Soka Gakkai.
I am originally from Chile, a country that sadly is kind of christian(thankfully as time goes on, this empire is decaying slowly) and I just came to the US in April 2007. Days after I arrived first to NY, I met a Mexican that did Shakubuku to me, and the Nichiren Buddhism seemed great to me! He told me that There were no leader, no one have a higher position that others, everyone was equally as a Buddha and they didn't forbid anything, no specific diets or to go to some so far spiritual places. Just chant Nam myojo Rengue Kyo for anything you want in your life. Pefect!
When I moved to California, I heard about SGI, an organization that enhances Kosen rufu(world peace) through this chanting. That looked nice, so I started attending meetings. Everyone was so nice, they said to ask whatever I wanted, everything was pretty nice.
But after 3 months in the practice, I already started doubting myself. The first thing that bothered me was when one meeting we just went and some members ask me to leave because it was a meeting just for leaders. HOW COME?! I was told no one was higher than me, no matter how long I have been a member, yet we left. Then the merchandise pressure, to read the SGI Newspaper, the Human Revolution, Ikeda’s video, and out of nothing, I was being promoted to do activities to SGI. I was being told that supporting the SGI will bring us good fortune, for we are doing good causes. Then I got stuck with the idea of studying at SUA, WHOAAAA I CAN’T IMAGINE HOW BRAINWASHED I WAS! That was even a better reason to start doing causes for SGI(not for myself). I did gajokai very early, when to the Soka Spirit meetings, even an SGI club in my college! Also, I took classes to practice for the application. Then, a month ago I was supposed to give the May contribution. It was supposed to be totally voluntarly within from our hearts, yet almost everyone insisted to donate, every meeting PLEASE DAM IT DONATE! I ended up donating 5 bucks.
Well, this may sound ironic, but that donation really became my benefit, for after that, something hit in my mind telling me that something was wrong with all of this! Everything in SGI sounded way too good to be true! (ALL THAT IS GOLD DOES NOT GLITTER!)So I began my personal research of SGI, and I came here!
After reading most of your stories of leaving SGI, today I announce my indecency from any religious group. No wonder why instead of studying the Gosho or the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, most of the time we studied what Pres. Ikeda wrote. You call his writing poetry? I bet even in Japanese would sound more like statements rather than “pieces of poetry”! SGI truly has brainwashed so many nice people, it makes me sad to think such great people are being use for a business rather than improving the world, it is very sad indeed. Another thing that somehow bothered me that to most of my questions about Buddhism or life in general, they will have either of these 2 answers:
1) If you want to know, chant so you will get such wisdom that the answer itself will show up
2) Whatever Science says.


They call that a wise answer to every problem that society faces today? I felt that was somehow sick, with no further backup for such arguments

As this discussion keep going, I will give more specific experiences that bothered me during my 2 years at SGI. I will like to congratulate for those who managed to outcast yourselves from this cult, some members here took 2 years to realize all these things, which I find quite amazing. You gave up such institution that was giving a very expensive placebo that takes away our soul as customers, rather than a human being. Peace to all, and hope to keep contributing this topic.

Hi Yzak!
I'm so glad you found this group.
Anticult, Tsukimoto, Mav, etc, are very respectful and I was so glad to find them also.
I had a lot of doubts about SGI, and many things didn't feel right about it. I only attended two meetings and I was lucky to find this group before I went any farther.
But I did learn good things from SGI:
1.They are very constant in their practice which is very important. If we want to be fit we need regular exercise. If we want to be in harmony with the Universe we need to CONSTANTLY chant, meditate, pray, or whatever we do!
2.I used to do only silent meditation, but I've learned now about chanting and different mantras that I can use.
3.And if somebody tells you they are the truth and the only truth you better do your research, because I think nobody has the total and absolute truth about everything (not even me).
The chanting they teach is great, but they use it to manipulate and brainwash people to stay with them, to buy only from them and use only their methods, magazines, materials, etc. I think this is wrong.
This group gave me a big conviction to say “No, I don’t want to join, I’m sure about it, and you aren’t going to manipulate me making me believe that something bad is going to happen to me if I don’t join!” (I never actually told my friend this). At the end I really don’t blame her; she is just being manipulated into bringing new members with the fear of bad karma, and I’m grateful for the good things I was able to learn from SGI.
Thank you ALL!

Welcome to the new Ex-SGI folks. Hope you are able to take the time, to honestly share what happened in your SGI experience.
Honesty is the best policy for all concerned. It helps the person writing, and also the other people who read it, as they can then have accurate information on SGI, to be able to make up their own mind without peer pressure.

Groups like SGI use deception on purpose in their recruitment, which is very common in these sects.


Also, as an aside, "Anticult" sometimes has written very bluntly and even harshly in this thread. But that is on purpose.
Most of these culty groups use flowery language, and even Orwellian Newspeak, and fancy words to mess around with the meanings of words.
That is called "Jargon".

So to break out of that Jargon is healthy, to just be a normal person, and use everyday language, which can be BLUNT and direct, and even using curse words at times, or whatever.
It breaks the pattern of using the sects "Jargon".

also, breaking out of any sect like SGI can be very EMOTIONAL, its not all calm logic and perfect objectivity. Sometimes a person can get angry, and most sects try to make that "bad" too.
So its not easy breaking out of these things sometimes, and strong emotions are normal.


One other point, its not a good idea to chant, pray, etc, "constantly".
Of course, that might be a figure of speech.
But people who have a bit of OCD, for example, can start to chant all day long.
Or like in the thread, lock themselves in a motel room and chant all day.

One person from SGI started to chant all day, under her breath, and then chant faster and faster, it really went crazy.
Sadly, it all ended at the psychiatric hospital.
So "constant" chanting is not a good idea.

A bit of meditating a few times a day to relax...that is different.

Awaken7, yes I understand your point. It is exactly the same issue I had, I don't mind the philosophy that Nichiren Daishonin offered, it was great, like Jesus too he was a great spiritual being with lots of good things to learn, but again I got troubled by its organization, the Church, and in this particular case, SGI.
There were quite many things that I like about this philosophy that made me be involved, like admitting that life have both pleasure and pain, that we have the power to change our karma, or life status, that we can actually enjoy our lives TODAY AND NOW,not later after we die..
This bring me to add something else. When I asked to members about what does Buddhism say about death, they just told me WE BELIEVE IN REENCARNATION, PERIOD. Well I though that was good, for I expected to people have the notion of the awareness of the now,to enjoy the present, but when I asked a member about this, he was totally blank! He had never even bother to think about that, he said BUT THE PAST AND THE FUTURE ARE IMPORTANT AS WELL! I though yes obviously, but to enjoy today being with people, not worrying what happened yesterday and what must be done tomorrow, STILL couldn't grasp that notion.
And like you mentioned Awaken7, when people come to you saying that their philosophy is the ultimate experience you will have, it is because something not quite right is happening. The last time I had to do Gajokai, there was a technical issue, but it was rather no big deal, the meeting continued smoothly. Well, after the meeting was ended, the leader of the Gajokai was so furious(I mean, someone could not see his head getting red, but the way hi showed his discomfort with the issue troubled me a bit), he was like THE MEETING WAS SPECTACULAR, BUT BECAUSE X HAPPENED THE WHOLE MEETING WAS A CRAP! I wasn't even close to where the problem happened! After that, this gajokai leader took me a ride(one of the so nice rides....) back home. In that trip he was kind of insulting me, with nice words but insulting, that I wasn't chanting good enough, that we have to work hard for Pres. Ikeda, I feel you are not doing enough for yourself, i feel you are not happy enough,YOU WANT TO BECOME HAPPY? YOU HAVE TO CHANT EVEN MORE! (that was the alert that hit my mind telling me something is wrong here) and he forced me to PROMISE ME YOU WILL CHANT MORE AND HARDER!....
I never saw that guy even with a smile, always prepearing things that the next meeting and the meeting after that were coming. He is younger than me and he is devastated with debt, and here he come and giving orders to me to become happier.
Thats crazy, but thankfully I realized this sooner than later! otherwise where I might be >_>!

also, an outsiders view about the Gohonzon.

First off, if you bought it, you own it, of course.
Even if it was a "gift", you still own it.

If SGI are saying they "really" own it, that sounds like a SGI manipulation tactic frankly, to try and make people NOT leave SGI.
Like a spoiled kid taking the baseball equipment home if the other kids don't do what he says.
They don't own it.


What to do with the Gohonzon from someone who is Ex-SGI, is of course their own decision and business.

But to break free from any sect, it takes a bit of radical action.
And chanting in front of an SGI Gohonzon could be reinforcing SGI each time a person chants, even unconsciously.

Getting rid of the daily reminders of any sect is VERY VERY important to begin to get away from it. For example, you can't really break out of the Byron Katie group, and still do her daily "worksheets", and look at her photos and videos daily, as they reinforce the entire Thought-Reform system.
[IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever] [forum.culteducation.com]

Personally, if it were me, I would get rid of the SGI Gohonzon, and all the SGI baggage, and just go on a trip, and buy a new one from somewhere that is neutral.
Or, even better, design and make one yourself, with your own symbolism.
Or not even use one.

Of course, that is each person's own personal decision.