Quote
tsukimoto
Talking with spirits and seeing dark energy radiating off of people? Wow. And I thought I'd met some bad leaders. Conversing with spirits and seeing energy have NOTHING to do with Nichiren Buddhism. This sounds like a situation that should be covered under the Code of Conduct. If she's charging members for readings, and teaching nonBuddhist doctrine at meetings, why don't her seniors use the Code of Conduct to go after her? If an organization must have a Code of Conduct, that SHOULD be the kind of situation it's used for.

If it were me, I'd be tempted to report this "leader" to the area headquarters. I am not necessarily advising you to; you know your situation better than I do. Perhaps she'd guess that it's you and retaliate in some way? She sounds like she would do anything. Also, if she has gotten away with this nonsense for awhile, then she must be presenting a good face to her leaders. Her followers could be too enthralled with her, or too intimidated by her, to complain. Perhaps she has good numbers for shakabuku (recruitment), can raise donations....and always agrees with Ikeda and SGI policy, at least publicly. SGI leaders are not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer anyway...they're more on the look-out for people who question or criticize SGI. Why should she criticize SGI? SGI provides her with people and situations that she can use for her own purposes...."don't disrupt the harmonious unity of our district by questioning a leader." Don't talk to people in other districts about what's happening in ours.

The problem is she doesn't share this information with everyone. There's a very small group of people that she tells this stuff to. She tests the water by doing a reading for them first. If they buy it, she continues. She told my ex not to tell anyone else in SGI about her, because she doesn't want people bothering her. She is targeting my ex quite a bit, because he's a perfect target. He's young, eager and willing to do anything she says. She's very polite and happy in public. She makes it seem like she loves everyone and everything. She idolizes Ikeda and she tells everyone that if she lost everything in life, she would still be happy, because she still has SGI. I've thought about reporting her, but the problem is I have no proof. She's very careful about who she tells these things to. She makes sure they believe her and trust her, before she lets them in. Plus, it'd be her word against mine and she'a well-known member and I'm no member at all, so either way, I lose. I'd only be trying to save my ex and that would only get him angry at me and push him further towards her. That's the thing about cults, you can't really do anything, unless you can actually remove them geographically from the cult itself. The only true way for them to be free from it is for them to have some sort of epiphany and leave on their own, but that rarely happens.

In spite of the fact that I chose to leave SGI, I really do believe in the power of chanting and the mystic law. But, this is only because I chose it as a way of enhancing my life. Everyone has to find something that works for them. I think I've said it before-It's a shame that the leaders of the organization take something as powerful as Nam Myo Renge Kyo (and this is my opinion, not trying to influence anyone else) and try to make it as their own. I can definitely say that at first, I was drawn to the organization because, where I lived the majority of African-Americans, go to church and believe in "the almighty Jesus Christ". In my experiences as a child and a young woman if you did not believe in God you were doomed to a life of hell. With that being said, I hadn't stepped foot in a church (unless it was a funeral or a wedding) since I'd been 17. Around the time that I was 30, I had been seeking something spiritual, when a lady that I'd met at my job, introduced me to this Buddhism. I went to a women's commemorative meeting, and from then on in the beginning I was hooked. As a result of this, I started going to shakabuku meetings in which the mentor-disciple relationship was never mentioned. I heard experiences from other members about how chanting had worked. Then after four months of joining people started talking about Ikeda. If it wasn't that then it was some chapter leader telling me that I had to shakabuku everyone in my apartment building. I never really stood up for myself and spoke out about what did not feel right, yet I never did anything that felt to uncomfortable to me as well. Finally after wising up about two weeks ago, I began to reason that if I could not speak up in an organization who's whole principle seemed to be based upon courage, then I had no business being there. Since then I have told my shakabuku that I am leaving and ( I think I have mentioned this before) she has basically doomed me to a life of unhappiness. In spite of the fact that I am no longer in SGI, it has taught me that I have a choice. I can choose what feels good to me and what does not. Another thing that weighed heavily on my conscience and made me decide to leave was the fact that I decided to step outside of myself. I thought, "what if I had a friend and I introduced them to this form of Buddhism and they were happy at first, only to feel pressured in the end"? Could I live with myself? No. I knew it was time to leave then. I even brought that up to the person who introduced me and all she could say to me was, "so what still stay". I could not believe that that had actually came out of her mouth. Here she was, always the main one complaining about how the SGI needed to change. Getting dirty looks from so many at meetings for always disagreeing, and now she was just telling me to put up with it. I can recall a time when I wanted to leave in December, and I had her support, yet I did not leave and decided to stick it out. I knew they had her when one day (about a month and a half ago) she'd gotten into a really nasty fight with one of her friends outside of the organization. The friendship had soured and she began to say things like, "What would Ikeda do"? " How can I be more like him"? I was shocked!!! I could not believe that I was hearing this. Here was a woman who'd stopped coming to Kosen-Rufu Gongyo meetings because she felt like the community center was always showing Ikeda videos. The one-woman army had just joined the ranks of the Ikeda military-known as SGI. I knew then that it was just a matter of time before I had to go. Now here I am. I h

Ithomas, I can relate to what you are saying. To me it sounds like the your shakabuku has some major conflicts about practicing. Like you (and many others) she likes to chant and likes the philosophy, but isn't sure about the organiztion. First she said that she doesn't want to go to Kosen-Rufu Gongyo to watch the video, and next she questions "what would Ikeda do?" as if she wants to be just like him. I think that SGI really tries to fill people full of fear. If they have any questions, any doubts, or just don't want to belong anymore, they are told that they are making a terrible cause and that they will loose everything that is good in their lives. Even missing a meeting is a terrible cause, according to some SGI leaders. If a person is led to believe SGI's dogma, then they will sincerely convey it to another person, who in turn starts believing it, and then espouses it to others. That's why everyone at the meetings seems to "be of the same mind"--they are all full of fear! I wish that SGI would change. So many people would like to see it change and want to chant with others, but SGI just won't accept that anything should be different. In the minds of the Japanese leaders (and many Americans!), SGI is perfect and does not need to change one bit. If an individual has a question or thinks something should be different, then it's their problem, and they need to chant to overcome it and start being just like the Japanese leaders! Many of us want to continue to chant. When I joined in the mid 70's, chanting gave me so much hope. Hope for my own life, and hope for world peace. I really felt that NSA (SGI) was going to accomplish world peace. Now, many years later, I see SGI as a rigid, ineffective, and not very honest organiztion. SGI may be effective in recruiting new members, but it does not hang on to them well. A few years back, SGI had a "membership card" campaign. Anyone remember that? There was great pressure to get everyone you knew to fill out a membership card. For example, if your spouse did not chant, or other family members or your friends, you were supposed to get them to fill out a membership card. It didn't matter that they didn't practice, just so long as they were supportive of SGI. So many people got lots of people to join the organization without really joining it. Danny Nagashima led this campaign. He said that President Ikeda was upset about the membership numbers here in the U.S. So many membership cards were filled out (without anyone really joining) and, lo and behold, the membership numbers increased tremendously. So SGI and Danny were very happy. We were all told how we would get great benefit if we participated in this campaign. It was really strange! I actually was quite embarrassed that SGI was doing such a thing.

Actually, SGI has embarrassed me several times. I always feel embarrassed by the "Ikeda, King, and Ghandi" exhibit. Is President Ikeda like King or Ghandi? Another thing that embarrasses me is when President Ikeda gets all of his honorary degrees. Then he brags on the videos about it. Why doesn't he earn a real degree instead of just getting hundreds of fake ones? When he is referred to as "Dr. Ikeda" I cringe. By the way, why has he never learned to speak English? In the "Human Revolution, he talks about it being so important to learn English. You'd think after all of these years he would be able to talk to us in our language.

Quote
quiet one
Actually, SGI has embarrassed me several times. I always feel embarrassed by the "Ikeda, King, and Ghandi" exhibit. Is President Ikeda like King or Ghandi? Another thing that embarrasses me is when President Ikeda gets all of his honorary degrees. Then he brags on the videos about it. Why doesn't he earn a real degree instead of just getting hundreds of fake ones? When he is referred to as "Dr. Ikeda" I cringe. By the way, why has he never learned to speak English? In the "Human Revolution, he talks about it being so important to learn English. You'd think after all of these years he would be able to talk to us in our language.

Once again, I want to congratulate for those who were members of SGI for years, you saw the split between SGI and the priest, and you managed to free yourself from this cult, while it is sad, it is very encouraging.
I also was quite bothered by the comparison of Pres. Ikeda with King and Gandhi. The big difference is that King and Gandhi didn't need to create a profitable organization in order to create world peace, unlike Ikeda. Also, I somehow heard complaining that President Ikeda should receive a Nobel Prize for Peace(that was just a vague comment a member told me). Well, I think the people that honor the Nobel Prize aren't so stupid to realize that he is just a profitable figure, rather than a super revolutionary philosopher. Its sad that the image that SGI has made on Ikeda have totally ruined the philosophy of Nichiren Daishonin. his "poetry" is very plain, there is no actual work of poetry. The way he gives order in his videos is rather creepy :S the way SGIers say HAI to everything Ikeda said, always reminded me of Hitler......
Another point I want to mention is that, in one of the many meetings I attended, the leaders mentioned that the mission the first 3 presidents of SGI have been completed, like say PHASE 1 is clear(to spread this Buddhism). In this new millennium, we were beginning to enter the PHASE 2 that is doing causes as Buddhist (ACTUAL PROOF). I went like, SGI waited for more than half-century just to tell members "ITS TIME FOLKS, LETS GET MOVING TROOPS"? That somehow scared me, for it seemed more like a long planned scheme, I mean, weren't the problems of the World after WW2 not so complicated or "WORDY" enough for SGI to solve? How different are the problems a century ago compared today? Did SGI really waited for this Global Recession,as a sort of opportunity, in order to just begin doing good things, or in order to manifest itself to the world? I believed there was something quite suspicious......
Worst of all, SGI members seemed more pleased, I though I was the only uncomfortable after hearing that, its was quite disturbing >_>!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2009 03:26PM by Yzak.

Yzak I agree. There is nothing special about Ikeada's poetry. I remember I had a byakuren shift at a Kosen-Rufu Gongyo, and he started to give a speech about a tree in winter that would not bloom.....yada yada yada. It last for fifteen minutes. Well anyways, eventually his faith got the tree to bloom and everyone in the audience that was watching the video just ate it all up. I could not believe how naive these people were. I also agree that saying the Hai! also resembles that of Hitler. I am so glad to be gone from that organization. I have no regrets for staying in there for the 31/2 years that I did. When it was my time to go. It was my time to go. Sadly it's gonna take something drastic to make people realize how cultish SGI is. Like I said in my last post. The person who Shakabukued me has now jumped on the Ikeda band wagon. In fact she accidentally emailed me a group email, stating to a lot of my friends that are still in the organization that, I let my negativity get the best of me and that is why I have practiced. Never mind the fact that I told her that I no longer believed in what the SGI stood for. She is being very toxic. As a matter of fact, tomorrow she wants to have a meeting with my friends in the organization tomorrow to "discuss how negative I am".
Yeah this is the same person who always used to speak out about not practicing for Ikeda and now here she is doing it and bad mouthing me at the same time.

Just as an aside, there are more and more people reading this EX-SGI thread, as seen in the rapidly increasing daily page views.
Word is getting out, and it comes up in internet searches.

There is some very well-reasoned information in this EX-SGI thread.
If anyone is on a blog or forum, and EX-SGI comes up, one could post a link to the thread, to give more people a chance to read it, and make up their own minds.
One would just post the link from the first page of the thread.

Former SGI members [forum.culteducation.com]


One surprising thing about this thread, is that there is so little disruption from current SGI members? Its very routine in threads on other groups, for "internet trolls" to come in on what seems a daily basis, to try and disrupt, and derail the thread, in some of the most outrageous ways imaginable.

Another good use of the thread, is to post links to other blogs and forums which are critical examining SGI.
Then at least people who have doubts, can look at the evidence, and make up their own minds, without peer pressure.

There are even some SGI websites, which try to dispute that SGI is a cult, by going through all sorts of twisting and reframing.

Some interesting searches for Google are:


SGI cult

Ex-SGI



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2009 03:49PM by The Anticult.

Quote
quiet one
I think that SGI really tries to fill people full of fear. If they have any questions, any doubts, or just don't want to belong anymore, they are told that they are making a terrible cause and that they will loose everything that is good in their lives. Even missing a meeting is a terrible cause, according to some SGI leaders. If a person is led to believe SGI's dogma, then they will sincerely convey it to another person, who in turn starts believing it, and then espouses it to others. That's why everyone at the meetings seems to "be of the same mind"--they are all full of fear!
Now, many years later, I see SGI as a rigid, ineffective, and not very honest organiztion. SGI may be effective in recruiting new members, but it does not hang on to them well.

Actually, SGI has embarrassed me several times. I always feel embarrassed by the "Ikeda, King, and Ghandi" exhibit. Is President Ikeda like King or Ghandi?

I agree. I enjoyed my early years in the organization; I felt hopeful, valued and encouraged when I went to meetings. Yet honestly, there was some of this manipulation, fear and guilt-tripping even then. We were told that we'd have bad fortune if we left or criticized SGI, but there were enough positive messages to balance the negative. The atmosphere at meetings became much more negative and fear-based after the Nichiren Shoshu/SGI split, and it sounds as if it's only gotten worse.

lthomas, I used to do shakabuku, trying to get friends and family to come to meetings and join. At some point, I no longer could. I didn't want people I cared about having to experience the fear/guilt mongering. I didn't want them to be afraid to speak their minds. Our organization talked about courage, and dialogue -- then why COULDN'T I speak honestly? At some point, I realized: if I don't want my sister or my best friend suffering from SGI's oppression and negativity -- why was I putting MYSELF through it?

SGI also embarrassed me. At one of our major conventions, we were supposed to cheer wildly when these two leaders from Japan were introduced. Our leaders made us audience members practice cheering before the meeting began...several times until we finally cheered loudly and enthusiastically enough. I sat there thinking, "God, I'm glad I didn't bring any of my nonSGI friends; this is just so phony and over-the-top! Practicing this Buddhism is supposed to benefit US. Not putting on a big show to impress these Japanese big shots!"

At the after-the-split meetings, I felt that way too. All this talk about Ikeda, the wild cheering for him when videos were shown. Our leaders wanted us to bring co-workers to the meetings. My first thought was "No way! I don't want my colleagues to see this! These people are more excited about President Ikeda than a churchfull of Holy Rollers are about Jesus Christ! My co-workers would think I'm in some kind of bizarre cult!" My second thought was, "Well, why am I here, then?"

And yes, just the whole Gandhi/King/Ikeda thing is just embarrassing too. Ikeda cannot be compared to the other two men. What has he done that is comparable? Gandhi and King were willing to risk -- and lost their lives for their causes. They inspired masses of people from all kinds of backgrounds to create real change -- the end of British rule in India, ending some of the worst of the Jim Crow laws in America. What's Ikeda done? He's a rich man who lives like a rock star. Does anyone outside of SGI even know who he is? Did King and Gandhi have time to get honorary degrees, make videos, and have their pictures taken with famous people all the time? No, they were too busy actually getting things done.

lthomas, sorry about how the woman who shakabuku'ed you is acting. Very unBuddhist, criticizing you behind your back...and I don't believe that it was accidental that you got that e-mail. Buddhism is supposed to be all about valuing and respecting the individual. There's no value or respect in how those members are behaving, just fear and "You're either for us or against us." It reminds me of middle school, where the kids bond by picking on others...if you don't taunt and exclude "different" kids, you'll find yourself teased and rejected yourself.

As to why we haven't had more trolls -- the SGI loyalists are afraid of reading websites critical of SGI. Back when I was in SGI, I wanted to discuss something I'd read on the Buddha Jones site. My leader told me "You shouldn't be reading those stupid anti-SGI websites; they're just going to lead you astray! You're making a bad cause when you go to that site!" Yes, thinking about anything other than what SGI wants you to know is a bad cause, according to SGI. It's the standard cult "control the information" thing.

So the loyal members are not going to come here and read what we have to say. They're too afraid to. However, I'm sure that someone in the SGI senior leadership is aware of us. On another website, I read a post from one guy, who used to be in SGI. He said that he used to have the job of monitoring anti SGI posts on the Internet and reporting on them to his leaders. The leaders were especially interested in criticism of President Ikeda.

But I'm sure that our SGI lurkers and their leaders are all chanting for our happiness, right?

Quote
lthomas
As a matter of fact, tomorrow she wants to have a meeting with my friends in the organization tomorrow to "discuss how negative I am".

Isn't that wonderful? Your "friends" making some sort of conspiracy to criticize you, to talk about how badly their friend is acting, like you are worst than an alcoholic. Cursing you saying that because you are thinking too much you will bring bad karma isn't very friendly. I will not call them "friends", for if they were real friends, they will come and discuss with me, not in secret with other members. I say this because in the 2 years I was in SGI, the meetings were very optimistic and everyone seemed so nice, like no divisions or something, and we were friends with everybody (like the song Imagine or something like that lOl). But also, that behavior let me think that there was something weird going on in the organization. Now that I'm outside of it, the negative karma of SGI totally overpowers the good karma, its just overwhelming. The fact that members called me FRIENDS, when they really were not. They only cared about me when they thought I wasn't chanting good enough, or they called me to talk about SGI, but when everyone was back to their own reality, they don't care about each other.
Its sound creepy that they ask members to keep track of websites like this that are criticizing SGI or Ikeda. And it is the same people they used to call me "a friend".....

Yzak, tsukimoto, quietone, and the anticult and others, thanks for your concern. It's amazing what a 180 degree change brings. I swear to God. This woman used to be so anti-Ikeda and then one day, every thing just changed. That was a couple of months ago and in the back of my mind when I decided to leave SGI. As for the "friends" in the organization, I don't really have none. I could just about imagine what the people said at the meeting. Especially, the YWD. When I first started practicing, there were so many of them that were my friends before and a little bit after I got my Gohonzan. Then about 6 months after I got it the friendship tapered off. The only time they would say something to me was if they saw me at a meeting before a byakuren shift, or after a meeting at the community center. It was always in passing. From one place to the other. I could not believe it!!! Here were some young women who had stayed in my face 24/7 and now they were practically treating me like a stranger. There was always something like that going on, not only with them but with other members as well. Why did I stay for 31/2 years. Well I suppose it was because I was not strong enough to leave yet. Plus feelings of being disconnected in the past, served as a benefit for them to feed me there dogma. I see a therapist and some of the other members see a therapist as well. In fact, I remember a few of the members quitting there therapist or cutting back, "because of this buddhism".
And as far as the King and Ghandi goes, Ikeda couldn't even light a match to what these brave men have done. I remember being at a YWD meeting and the young women were praising Ikeda, comparing him to Ghandi and King.
It was very scary. I was the only one in the room that was as quiet as a church mouse. It was one of my most uncomfortable feelings within the SGI.

Quiet one. I do not think that I was practicing when they had people filling out membership cards. However, there is a group within the organization, which is called The Sophia Group. It is only for women and the thing that surprised me was, although you were supposed to attend meetings, if you did not then you still graduated from the program after about 6 months. That did not make sense to me. Usually you are suppose to your way up in ranks or earn a certificate for actively participating but, not with this group or the leadership positions that were handed out. Which reminded me of a quote in which another member posted (please forgive me I do not remember who it was):

In the beginning, I DID like SGI, and I enjoyed some of the
experiences that I had with my groups. As time went by, SGI changed,
and I changed. The things I didn't like outweighed what I did like,
and I left. Was I manipulated? Yes, I did some things for the
organization, like become a group leader, that I really didn't want to
do. I stayed a few years too long, in the hope that the organization
would change. But I also had some choices. I can agree that I was
manipulated, and that information was withheld from me, and other
members.

This was the exact thing that I experienced. I definitely felt that I was beginning to change and that the
organization who credo is built on peace, was not as peaceful as I thought it was. I did the exact same things
as this person did (so sorry do not remember who posted) I became a unit leader. Then, without any explanation
they promoted me to group leader. Then I decided to become a district leader. None of it worked and the higher you went up in the organization, the more it seemed like you had to play their game. There were times when I questioned whether I was brainwashed. In fact, in my earlier days of practicing, right after they started to promote
Ikeda a lot. I even told this to the woman who introduced me. I told her I sometimes felt as if I was in a cult. She asked me to explain. I did and she replied that if I was in a cult then I would not be free to go. She told me that I was free to leave SGI anytime that I wanted to. I think then she knew that I was not going to leave because, back then I was so dependent on the organization. I really did not have to many friends then. I was starting over at the beginning starting to form friendships with people after a 10yr hiatus. They really got me at a vulnerable time. I think that I have posted it before, but in the beginning they told me to wait 90 days before receiving my Gohonzan to make sure that I really wanted to practice. I was willing to do that, but the more the members kept seeing how excited I was about this Buddhism, the more they kept pushing me to get it quicker. Every time I tried to explain to them that I wanted to wait 90 days, I was often told that I was to hesitant and that I must show real courage. Anyway I received my Gohonzan on the 55th day. I did not even know that I was getting it until the person who introduced me to this kind of buddhism, was driving me to Kosen-Rufu, rushing me to fill out the paperwork. When I explained to her that I wanted to wait. She seemed harried and told me that I was just getting cold feet and that I was ready. I wasn't at that time about to back down, because I depended on them. I also did not want to let anybody down and be embarrassed. I always in the back of my mind resented her for that. Also, another thing that I hated was giving experiences sometimes. I remember I had a huge "breakthrough" and I only wanted to share it with the one that introduced me. The next thing I know, Kosen-Rufu Gongyo was around the corner and I am being asked to give an experience. No matter how many times I tried to get out of it there was pressure. I was often told that we had to share our experiences to make the organization grow. Also, if you did not feel like doing something you were often told that you were lazy,cocky, or arrogant. In fact I remember going over to a member's house to chant with her. She asked me how long did I want to chant. I said anywhere from an hour to 45 minutes was fine. She was happy and replied that, "Good because anyone who want to chant less is arrogant". I never said anything but I remember thinking that that was crazy. Just because you did not want to chant for a long period of time that meant you were lazy? I don't think that the members realize this but to sit in front of a scroll and say the same things over and over again, even for 15 minutes is a lot. It take a lot of disicpline