Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 12, 2014 10:47PM

Ive been reamed in other places, other ways.

Enough that my bum flaps enough in the breeze that it could as a weather-vane.

Must confess that via a dream I had this morning, I recognized one teeny tiny
ingredient deep within my own make up.

It is a very common fantasy, one that gathers strength when we are down
and depressed -- the way a lowered immune system can lead to opportunistic
infections by organisms we usually harbor in our bodies that that never otherwise make us ill when our immune systems are at full function.

Its this embarassing longing that comes from the earliest of early childhood
to find someone With Knowledge, someone With Influence, who will Take Care of Me.

Just admitting this makes we want to crawl down a sewer grate and hide.

But it is this small bit of "code" that I have to admit is written deep into
my psychological DOS.

Unless I face this embarassing bit of myself, it is the part of me that can
be 'hacked' when I force it into my unconscious awareness and then become
stresed out enough that that longing, still unconscious, can be massaged, or at
worst, exploited.

I suspect most adults have this to some degree. And are embarassed enough about
it that many dont want to admit it.

None of this means we want to be ripped off.

Nor that we want to be lied to.

But it means being kindly alert to that longing within each of us.

That is where we need not only to know our inner children, but create
a wise inner parent who knows the longing of that inner child and can
protect that inner child from exploitation by outsiders who want to
discredit the wisdom and street smarts of our inner parents.

One could also call the inner parent, our BS detector.

Just the other day, I recalled my mother.

When I was a kid, the Hare Krishnas were doing their song and dance number
at airports and train stations and on streets.

Mom and I were walking past a bunch of them. One HK shoved a red rose into my
hand and, surprised, I took the flower.

Instantly Mom said 'Dont fall for it!', grabbed the rose from my hand and she
threw that corrupted flower right back at them.

Age 11, I knew nothing of street scams. But Mom, somehow, had learned a great
deal. How she learned, she never told me.

But she knew, perhaps from hearing the news(?) that the HKs and other con artists would seemingly offer that flower as a gift, then when you were distracted by its beauty or shocked by this sudden appearance of exotic people
and the flower being shoved into your hand (this shock is enough to induce a
light hypnotic trance, btw -- learned this from a post written by The Anticult) --then they hit you up for money.

Mom knew about this. She, the parent, had street smarts that I, age 11 did
not have.

So..Mom blocked the con artist and got us out of there.

A lot of cult recruitment is aimed at hitting us when our inner parent function
may be running a bit low -- and then once we spend time with the recruiters
and the group, our inner child gets separated from that protective inner parent
and our inner idealistic children, eager to belong, eager to play with and work
with others, eager to adore, and in some cases, lonely and longing to be cared
for, get separated from our inner parents and once separated from our inner parents, this inner child in us gets exploited to varying degrees.

Thing about the parent is, to a child, whether its our inner child or a child
in years, the parent often seems the enemy of fun and pleasure. The parent
is cautious. The parent has an awareness of consequences.

Children think they can fly. Adults know sadly about the law of gravity and
keep us away from the windows we want to jump from.

So, if any scoundel comes along making it seem he or she can give us wings and fun, and tricks us to thinking the inner adult is cynical, joyless and insulting
to us, that sets us up.

Am muttering a bit here. Need more coffee.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: July 13, 2014 06:24AM

Maybe you're muttering, but you're making a lot of sense corboy.

We've already discussed how expertly cults identify their targets; they spot someone whose life has given them a burden that has become too heavy for them to carry on their own, and they offer to help. It may be a kindly stranger (or even someone you've known for years) who says "Here . . . let me help you with that! And you know, I've found something that makes my life's burdens much lighter and easier to manage. Let me tell you about it!" And because they've already inspired a certain amount of trust simply by providing a sympathetic ear, you're willing to give them some ear-time.

Some people are fortunate enough to have family members or close friends who are always there to help with the heavy lifting, but an awful lot of us didn't. We were vulnerable and open to suggestion . . . that isn't stupidity; we just needed a hand and someone untrustworthy reached out to us. It's human nature to trust people that offer to help us.

Corboy, I don't know if your mother broke it down in her mind like that or if she simply thought the HK were a bunch of weirdos that she didn't want her child near. They do have a high creep-factor. From what you've written, you grew up in a house where you were taught not to believe what your eyes, ears and instincts were telling you . . . that's kind of a perfect set up to teach you not to believe any alarm bells that went of in your head. A lot of us grew up that way to one degree or another; we were taught to ignore what our instincts were screaming at us and believe what someone who appeared to be credible and trustworthy told us was right. As long as someone, a person with experience or authority, told us everything was fine, we believed them, even if that small voice was wailing like a banshee. It takes a long time to unlearn that, and we're fortunate that we finally did.

Children deserve adults in their lives to keep them away from those windows, but when we're never allowed to actually learn that for ourselves, we'll keep thinking we can fly. And we've learned to trust that believable person who hands us a pair of cardboard wings and invites us to try them out. We'll especially trust that person and those wings if that person convinces us that flying is really running along the ground flapping your arms. They've changed your definition of flying to actually describe something that's physically possible and we buy it.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 13, 2014 11:35AM

This thread has 733 pages, at about 10 posts a page that is over 7000 posts.

Also, almost 400,000 views, and there were probably more views as the view counts were probably reset.

So that is a lot of information that is very valuable for public education.
That is an interesting site with lots of readers. Its very useful to cross-post links from sites like that to ones like this.

Also make sure to backup all the reddit posts, because you can be sure the SGI-Corp will try to get it taken down. SGI have taken down quite a number of websites that pointed out aspects of SGI that SGI-USA wants to conceal from the public.

So expect SGI to try and get the reddit threads removed, but perhaps they won't succeed.

SGI-USA of course have their own reddit threads.

and SGI-USA is discussing in this thread about how to use reddit to recruit more members to SGI.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2014 11:38AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 13, 2014 12:05PM

This is a useful thread.
That's a good idea, take the SGI storytelling persuasion tactic, where they tell you some SGI Tall Tale/lies about how SGI works miracles and makes you rich instantly, but turn it around, and tell how SGI does not work.

Point out the FACTS about how it didn't work for Ikeda, it didn't work for various SGI leaders and members.

Like the one where there was a loyal and naive SGI follower, who chanted daily, paid her dues, and held SGI meetings in her house, and she had kids and a husband, and was a nice person, doing as she was told by SGI.
She ended up getting brain cancer.
Of course, since she was a popular person, hundreds chanted for her locally and city wide, everyone was chanting for her for weeks, fundraisers, meetings chanting parties, they really pulled out all of the SGI heavy weapons to save her.
She died of brain cancer a couple months later.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: meh ()
Date: July 13, 2014 07:32PM

Thanks for mentioning the reddit sub, Anticult. Since we set it up in mid-March, we've helped four people (that we know of) make the decision to leave.

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Questioning stories
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 13, 2014 08:20PM

Anticult mentioned an important trick of theirs:

Telling stories of healing. How someone chanted his or her bum off and got
a windfall, or the dream job, etc.

What The Anticult has shown us is how often these seemingly sincere stories
are, in this context, well honed, well crafted sales pitches.

We rarely imagine the need to question whether that story, the story that is
tickling and soothing our sore, aching nerve endings, is actually *designed to
do exactly that* and that we are not being seen and loved as persons, but ATMs
on feet, being hacked into.

As the old hymn went, "Lord you know the secrets of our hearts..."

Today it is "We want to know the PIN # of your hearts".

Here are earlier items discussed that reveal the 'tech' used by other



"Strange Stories"




Using friends and beloved relatives as recruiters. Zappo. Bugs Bunny
put it very well. "Ya gotta trust someone." And all of us get down
and depressed now and then - and turn to friends and relatives for
advice. Its human.

The need for sleep - sleep, it seems, is the best brain cleanser of all.

One custom that may alienate SGI from other Buddhists (very good because
other Buddhists could educate troubled SGI members on how SGI misrepresents


Discouraging potential dissenters


Using the Sparkly Eyes techique


(An entire search technique here)


The Limited Time Offer/Space is Limited so RSVP Now


Profits from books -- dont know if SGI does this, but useful to know for other


Using language in strange ways


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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 13, 2014 08:25PM

Final and brief note:

About my mom -- in a lot of ways she was inconsistent.

Dared not trust my perceptions of her in some areas, such as
where she left the gin bottle by the toaster and was mean.

I did not want to face what that meant.

But in other ways, Mom was totally on the mark. Such as IDing
the Hare Krishna street scam. Mom also warned my away from Scientology
when I first asked about it in the late 1960s. (The name sounded
really cool, so I asked.)

Mom, somewhere, had learned about what CO$ actually was, and warned me
away. Something led me to listen to her.

Am not glad you drank Mom, but am glad for the early street smarts lessons.

Back to SGI.

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SGI Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 13, 2014 10:00PM

Its helpful to just keep getting the message out there that SGI-USA is not what it seems, that it has cultish tendencies. This way thousands of people will hear that, and at least their radar will hopefully go up.
Similar to Scientology, most people know they are a "cult" these days, so one would think that would make it a bit harder to recruit.

Another way to help people, is to show them you can have a better life without SGI, and get the alleged benefits of SGI, without the nonsense.

For example, SGI teaches you to "chant" to get what you want.
Does it work? Of course not. (Confirmation bias).

But what works? Instead of chanting for miracles, why not just make a list of what you were chanting for before...and call them "Goals".
Then you write them on a list, and put it in your smartphone, and then review that list several times a day, just think about them, and what you would have to do to get them.

Most importantly, instead of Chanting For Miracles, select a goal from your list, and come up with a detailed Action plan, and start taking action today.

Example: You want to lose weight...chanting won't make you thinner! But perhaps counting calories will, or eating _____ kind of diet, etc.

Or you want a better job, chanting won't get you one. But maybe taking new training, job hunting, promoting your skills, etc, all of those actions just might help you.
Chanting will hurt you, as you are doing nothing, just talking to yourself in a room in front of a photo of Ikeda. This is not going to work!!
(of course they believe they are changing their Karma, etc)

You can get far far better results from just common sense than the bogus SGI chanting. Bogus SGI chanting in fact makes things WORSE, as instead of DOING something, people sit down and chant, and then just wait around!

Or chant 12 hrs a day, we have all know some SGI followers who start doing that, they are literally headed for a padded cell when you get to that "advanced" SGI level of craziness.

SGI-USA knows this of course, and that is part of the SGI scam.
Because chanting doesn't work, so it keeps people hooked into SGI praying for miracles to get a new car or other greed/vanity projects.

If you want a new car, you need to listen to your your money, shop around, and then buy one! Time to grow up and be an adult!

So SGI engineers infantile Magical Thinking into people, to make them more passive.

Ikeda does not chant for what he wants, like piles of money and gold toilets. He gets those things by convincing you to give him your money, and then he buys what he wants, with your money.

The entire SGI thing is a scam and sham, meant to infantilize people's minds and make them passive followers.

The only thing one might say about SGI, is it might make people "believe" they can change something. But since its a delusion, its a bad approach.

Why not just be an adult and decide to "believe" you can change, make a plan, and take action, and really try your best, and see what happens?
This works a million times better than the SGI chanting.

Because SGI chanting turns you into a chanting couch-potato, so your life is about as productive as someone sitting watching TV 12 hrs a day.
Except chanting 12 hrs a day is more boring, and will literally drive you clinically insane.

SGI chanting is just about the WORST most unproductive thing you can do with your life, in terms of achievement.
Try to chant your way through a college exam, or a drivers test, or a mortgage negotiation, or instead of doing the job you are paid to do, then just chant instead. You will be fired in less than one day.

SGI chanting is simply a fraud.

And what about about Chanting for healing from life threatening sickness, etc? The really bad stuff?
Well, then its also time to be an adult, and realize sadly we can do everything we can think of to help ourselves and our friends with medical care, etc, but sometimes death is a part of life.
That is also part of being an adult, accepting that people die and bad things happen to good people.

But SGI breeds delusion, infantilism and passivity.
A person would literally be better off believing in nothing than SGI, as then at least they would have basic common sense left.

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Re: SGI Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: July 14, 2014 05:52AM

The Anticult Wrote:

> Or chant 12 hrs a day, we have all know some SGI
> followers who start doing that, they are literally
> headed for a padded cell when you get to that
> "advanced" SGI level of craziness.
> So SGI engineers infantile Magical Thinking into
> people, to make them more passive.
> Except chanting 12 hrs a day is more boring, and
> will literally drive you clinically insane.
> SGI chanting is simply a fraud.
> But SGI breeds delusion, infantilism and
> passivity.

I love the above. Truer words have rarely been so plainly spoken. At minimum, the chanting is your brain on ice cubes. At worst, it turns you into a mental case. It does different things to different people.

Hi Spartacus!! Thanks to you and all here for your contributions and insight! I also miss your book, Spartacus. I hope you will continue working on it.

- Hitch

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Re: SGI Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 14, 2014 06:45AM

Just another point, in case the above seems too blunt.

Classical Buddhist chanting, and things like that, were not about "getting stuff" like new cars and bigger house to show-off to make others think you are a big-shot, etc, they were about the exact opposite.
So you had problems, and you said a chant and spun the prayer wheel, and maybe you felt a release, which would be good.

But SGI chanting is not that, SGI claims you can achieve your goals with their chant. This is a lie, its false. SGI is lying about this, as they know darn well chanting is a waste of time. But that is good for SGI.
As the more you chant, the less you do, the more you are dependent on SGI.

Once you realize you don't need SGI to achieve your goals, that is good for you, but bad for SGI. SGI wants to build insecurity and dependence into its followers.

Just do an experiment.
Makes 2 lists of small "goals" maybe 3 things on each, that are roughly equivalent, get a friend to judge if they are equal in difficulty.
Then get a different friend to assign one list to SGI chanting only, and the other list to taking direct action everyday on those goals.
See which goals you achieve first! The SGI chanting goals will sit there for months, whereas you could get the others ones in a couple days of direct action.

SGI chanting is WORSE than doing nothing.
Why? Because if we did nothing and just sat around all day, we'd start to feel anxious and think, gee I better do something about _____.
But with SGI, you chant and then think, ok now it will happen by magic, so you do nothing, and feel comfortable doing nothing.

Again, this is not a theory, some of us have known SGI members who do exactly that.
Some of us may have even known SGI members who went off the SGI deep-end, and started chanting all day everyday, until they end up getting involuntary psychiatric care.
Or others who start chanting all day long under their breath.
Its a primitive superstition.

SGI chanting does not solve problems, it creates problems. Which is just the way SGI wants it. SGI has made BILLIONS of dollars off people insecurities and superstitions, and wanting something for nothing.
The only one SGI chanting works for is Ikeda and his family who are collecting all that SGI cash, assets, wealth, real estate, and hot-tub parties with Ikeda.

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