larry bobo Wrote:
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Within TLWF, looking for direction from the leadership is considered a mark of maturity.


corboy Wrote:
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A disciple is not the same as an inmate.

It is a bad sign when a group of adults continually gaze at a leader the same way a gun dog looks up to his master.


The archetype that was often used under the teaching of the Hargraves was Joshua putting his absolute focus on Moses. He was his servant from youth. He went to Mt. Sinai with Moses, but did not go up to receive the law. Basically, Joshua was not interested in anything else but serving Moses. He waited on him and if Moses went to speak with God face to face, Joshua waited for Moses. He was not his equal, but his servant.

This was the spiritual example that all TLWF members were to strive for, to be a continual servant. Not exactly the American dream. This thinking made it impossible for members to reach maturity or to have normal relationships with others in their lives. I suppose that it worked for Gary. After all, he left everything and everybody else behind to put his complete focus on JRS (and JRS' wife, Marilyn). And when JRS died, he became the next leader (and also got the wife).

But as a way of life for thousands of believers (now less), the Joshua example seems narcissistic and sadistic. What you realistically end up with is one leader receiving all the attention, and all the others fighting amongst themselves to be THE Joshua ministry. Meanwhile, the spouses are being ignored and the children are not receiving the attention they deserve.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2018 11:35PM by Reepicheep.

Getting written confessions from people, writing them down and filing them -
that is a surefire way to instill fear.

What does a confession contain in order for it to be confession?

Stuff we are ashamed of. The area of our lives where Jesus wants
to clean up and heal -- and where the Devil wants in.

I heard someone say once that some stuff is so confidential that it must not be shared with another person if you or others risk permanent harm.

The person said, stuff like that is the stuff where I go vertical - I confess it
only to God. This person had had a dangerous pre repentance life, and
many people were owed confidentiality.

If the wrong person has custody of our confessional material, we risk
being trapped by that person.

Other groups dig this information out - Scientology does it. A guru named Andrew Cohen got people to write self degrading letters to him, which he kept. Sometimes he filmed them during rituals of humiliation.

One can become terrorized without knowing it. It can become consciously
unbearable to entertain doubts or indignation toward an increasingly abusive
leader if you gave your written confessions to that same leader
back when the leader seemed loveable, healing, trustworthy.

Rather than face this consciously, we can shove this under. Result; we are still
afraid, but the fear is yet more binding because we are unconscious of it.

And because this confessed material is tied to what we are most ashamed of, we are paralyzed, because whatever we are ashamed of paralyzes our thoughts and deflects
our own scrutiny.

Mental health professionals will tell you there is an inner self that is deep and private. A normal person keeps this place secret and private. It is very unhealthy to expose this place to another human.

But the Living Word demands that you open it up and give it all. You are expected to tell your “designated relationship” everything. Including these secret places. This is very harmful IMO.

I’m sure the LW still has a file on me. I still have fear that they will use it against me.

Reepicheep Wrote:
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> larry bobo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Within TLWF, looking for direction from the
> leadership is considered a mark of maturity.
>
>
> corboy Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> A disciple is not the same as an inmate.
>
> It is a bad sign when a group of adults
> continually gaze at a leader the same way a gun
> dog looks up to his master.
>
>
> The archetype that was often used under the
> teaching of the Hargraves was Joshua putting his
> absolute focus on Moses. He was his servant from
> youth. He went to Mt. Sinai with Moses, but did
> not go up to receive the law. Basically, Joshua
> was not interested in anything else but serving
> Moses. He waited on him and if Moses went to speak
> with God face to face, Joshua waited for Moses. He
> was not his equal, but his servant.
>
> This was the spiritual example that all TLWF
> members were to strive for, to be a continual
> servant. Not exactly the American dream. This
> thinking made it impossible for members to reach
> maturity or to have normal relationships with
> others in their lives. I suppose that it worked
> for Gary. After all, he left everything and
> everybody else behind to put his complete focus on
> JRS (and JRS' wife, Marilyn). And when JRS died,
> he became the next leader (and also got the wife).
>
> But as a way of life for thousands of believers
> (now less), the Joshua example seems narcissistic
> and sadistic. What you realistically end up with
> is one leader receiving all the attention, and all
> the others fighting amongst themselves to be THE
> Joshua ministry. Meanwhile, the spouses are being
> ignored and the children are not receiving the
> attention they deserve.


Thanks for that powerful insight Reepicheep. What strikes me is how this archetype and spiritual example of Joshua is so oldie but moldy Old Testament, NOT New Testament. TLWF presents itself on its webpage as a New Testament Church. If that is true then it seems to me the leadership would be putting forward the archetype and spiritual example from the Gospel about the leadership not being exalted but serving the people, and NOT vice versa as it is in TLWF where the congregation is the servant of the leadership. While the Joshua archetype can informs us, the relationship between Moses and Joshua is irrelevant to having a walk with God today, post the New Testament, the new covenant, or in Walker language....the new thing (teaching put forward by Jesus.) IMO as Larry points out, TLWF webpage is deceptive and lacks transparency and honesty about what this little cult is about....which in part is serving the leadership. The archetype example of Jesus is about the servant leader.

40yearsin2016 Wrote:
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>
> Later wondered if the implosion was God's way of
> "saving" those who would be saved from the ravages
> of the cult.


I've wondered that too.

I knew an elder and his family. Who were removed by G&M. I didn't understand why. I thought they if anyone. Were in good standing. It would have been known. By G&M that at one time. Before joining the LW and marrying. The elder said he was gay. I can't say for sure. That is why the elder was removed. All I can say. It didn't make sense to me. It bothered me. But I pushed it down.

I kind of feel. Puddington's fear. That the LW has a file on me. And they would use it against me. corboy. Your post about getting confessions. And knowing how it was done in the LW. Haunts me.

Reepicheep Wrote:
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>. I hope it didn't play any part in getting
> people to sign non-disclosure agreements. (Did you
> all know about that?) How would you like to read
> all that garbage? I can only hope that at some
> point it was all shredded and is not still out
> there somewhere.


Hi Reepicheep...last yr (1/30/17) Invisible posted about marrying M and giving commitments to G&M. Is that what you were referring to about getting people to sign non-disclosure agreements?

lily rose Wrote:
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> Hi Reepicheep...last yr (1/30/17) Invisible posted
> about marrying M and giving commitments to G&M. Is
> that what you were referring to about getting
> people to sign non-disclosure agreements?

No, lily rose. I heard second-hand that some people in the organization who "knew too much" were asked to sign non-disclosure agreements. I'm not sure of the circumstances, just that it happened. Maybe just in case they ever left?

I’ve posted information about TLWF for almost twenty years, starting with Factnet, and have never been threatened to have personal information released from shepherd’s files. On the other hand, I’ve had plenty of accusations from those within TLWF – both in the leadership as well as followers. In the early years, I said things that I would not say now – mostly vomit. It was necessary at the time in the healing process, but not something I would want to make a life-style of. However,“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” – Edmund Burke. I believe we have a responsibility to speak up and warn others, or we contribute to the problem.

As when the human body throws off toxins – sometimes from both ends - there is something similar that happens spiritually. Deep down, we know something is not right and our spirits wretch. I think this is also taking place to varying degrees for those still in TLWF, as well as in those who have left, because it is a toxic environment for all.

I’m sure we’re all familiar with how our relationship with our natural father affects our relationship with our Heavenly Father – at least initially. For some, that relationship was so abusive they cannot even call God, “Father”. I would suggest that the view of the Father we have received from TLWF is nothing like Him at all. In a nutshell, it was spiritual abuse. We end up being so suspicious and fearful of anything that looks like “God”, that we shut ourselves off from the very thing that can bring us life.

The reason I would so encourage those who have had involvement with TLWF to turn back to the Lord for healing is that He wants to redeem us. Our shepherd’s files are washed away. It’s a real deal, not just a doctrine. If God is for us, who can be against us? He is not the accuser of the brethren, as was so inbred into us by the culture of TLWF. He fills us with faith and heals us – in spite of our sins. When we find our hearts fearful, we’re listening to the wrong guy. The only one we have to answer to is Him anyway, and He loves us so much that He sent His son to die for our sins. He wants to make our relationship with Him healthy right now - far more than we do! That secret place in our hearts is for Him alone

larry bobo Wrote:
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> I’ve posted information about TLWF for almost
> twenty years, starting with Factnet, and have
> never been threatened to have personal information
> released from shepherd’s files....

> However,“The only thing necessary for the
> triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” –
> Edmund Burke. I believe we have a responsibility
> to speak up and warn others, or we contribute to
> the problem.

Both good reasons to keep on keeping on, Larry. Thanks.

I still think that was it very wrong for personal information, situations and direction to be tape recorded, transcribed and filed. It will probably never be used against anyone, and maybe it was even done with good intentions. Just the idea that it could still exist is disturbing.

I often wonder why that type of behavior seemed normal to us back in the day. If someone asked me to write down my deepest thoughts now and turn it in to the "ministries", I believe I would turn and run.