lily: my dad thought John's gift was nothing more than that of a psychic medium. Just like Edgar Cayce. Dad used to read 20th Century Theologian, AW Tozer, "99.9% of what you see out there that claims to be the gifts of the Spirit is not of God." I wish I had been obedient to my birth father instead of my psychic father.


larry bobo Wrote:


> The point I would like to make is that whether it
> is TLWF, Scientology, Buddhism or any other cult,
> the methodology for control is the same. Only the
> doctrines differ. The other thing they all have
> in common is the damaged lives that are left in
> their wake and the lack of concern or sense of
> responsibility by the leadership for causing so
> much suffering.


Absolutely. It's all about control.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lily: my dad thought John's gift was nothing more
> than that of a psychic medium. Just like Edgar
> Cayce. Dad used to read 20th Century Theologian,
> AW Tozer, "99.9% of what you see out there that
> claims to be the gifts of the Spirit is not of
> God." I wish I had been obedient to my birth
> father instead of my psychic father.
>
>

Interesting. A few years ago someone posted that a number of ministries who were close to JRS thought that 50% of JRS's ministry was of God. I'm not sure about that. JRS seemed to believe that the occult and psychic powers could be purified and then used in the service of the Kingdom which seems to suggest that's what JRS thought he was doing. That's pretty grandiose thinking not to mention that thinking is unscriptural. So, I think one has to ask oneself did JRS deceive himself. Did JRS rationalize what the scriptures say about the dark side of the occult because JRS thought he was helping people by tuning into them therefore it was a gift from God? Or did JRS attribute his psychic skill as "god" within him? And if one thinks JRS was a narcissists, the narc supply he would have received from demonstrating spiritualistic powers would have been huge.

Great post, lily. I would add. John's roots in Pentecostalism influenced the path he took. John encountered good Christian people within Pentecostalism who had taken a strong stand against extremism and false teaching. Example, the latter rain teaching. John wasn't onboard with that. John was excommunicated. He was influenced by McPherson and others. Who alleged restoration of gifts of the spirit allowed tapping into any source of spiritualistic powers. Thinking they were using a divine gift. Go figure. With all of John's demands of obedience to him. John was 100% disobedient to God because IMO the narcissistic supply was like a drug to him.

Was John's psychic gift to read people from God? Maybe it's not a gift at all . Scientific investigation has found some are born with psychic abilities. And some have gotten it through transference. There has been some mention. That Braham may have laid hands on John and transferred the ability. I bought into John's claim of God's people being able to use occult teaching for good. Some psychics. Who aren't into God. Say they too have helped people. Bible doesn't say if a vision or psychic prediction is accurate it is from God. What the Bible says, if it is not accurate it's not from God. John's visions and predictions were inaccurate most of the time. To me that says. John's psychic ability was not from God. As Larry has posted. In Old Testament 100% accuracy was expected and required of the prophets.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was John's psychic gift to read people from God?
> Maybe it's not a gift at all . Scientific
> investigation has found some are born with psychic
> abilities. And some have gotten it through
> transference. There has been some mention. That
> Braham may have laid hands on John and transferred
> the ability. I bought into John's claim of God's
> people being able to use occult teaching for good.
> Some psychics. Who aren't into God. Say they too
> have helped people. Bible doesn't say if a vision
> or psychic prediction is accurate it is from God.
> What the Bible says, if it is not accurate
> it's not from God. John's visions and predictions
> were inaccurate most of the time. To me that says.
> John's psychic ability was not from God. As Larry
> has posted. In Old Testament 100% accuracy was
> expected and required of the prophets.

Google “Cold Reading”. A well known Pentecostal “parlor trick”.

Lily:
"Towards the end of my stint at Shiloh, I was getting pretty sick and tired of ministries taking their own imagination for the voice of God."

That, in a nutshell, explains the insanity we were subjected to. God forbid that we ever applied logic or reason to situations. The will of God, apparently, was almost always something that would seem bizarre to a 'normal' person.
From my experience, the weirdness would often be justified by referring to the scripture that proclaims God's ways (ministries being God, of course) not being our ways. That scripture (Isaiah 55:8) sure got mileage in the little pernicious cult.

Another scripture they throw at you is Psalm 105:15

“Do not touch My anointed ones, and do My prophets no harm.“

Which implies that church leaders can not be busted for doing wrong stuff. I recall the LW leadership using this scripture regarding certain sexual abuses that were occurring to sheep by an elder. G didn’t want it exposed to the whole congregation. The leadership’s reputation was more important than stopping the damage being done.

Of course, the LW isn’t the only outfit doing this. They’re just especially good at it.

Harvey Weinstein would have fit well into Apco.

Here’s another group believing for someone to be raised from the dead:

[pulpitandpen.org]

They only waited for seven days – not several months. Since the pastors at Shiloh seem to have no recollection of praying for John to be raised from the dead, I was wondering if anyone besides myself remembers those long nights of prayer. It’s amazing how selective memory seeks to justify outright lies when you are attempting to sanitize yourself in the eyes of the world. The fact that you need to “love bomb” before you bait-and-switch – or misrepresent your teachings until people are “mature enough” to handle what you are really up to – should be a red flag to most. I’m not aware of any church, outside of TLWF, that needs to sanitize their sermons through a legal department before releasing them to even their own members.

I remember the prayer to raise JRS from the dead. Very well.

Speaking of bait-and -switch, I remember that guys bringing a word at a service always had two sermons prepared. The regular one for the congregation and another “softened” word, just in case a visitor showed up at the service.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another scripture they throw at you is Psalm
> 105:15
>
> “Do not touch My anointed ones, and do My prophets
> no harm.“
>
> Which implies that church leaders can not be
> busted for doing wrong stuff. I recall the LW
> leadership using this scripture regarding certain
> sexual abuses that were occurring to sheep by an
> elder. G didn’t want it exposed to the whole
> congregation. The leadership’s reputation was more
> important than stopping the damage being done.
>
> Of course, the LW isn’t the only outfit doing
> this. They’re just especially good at it.
>
> Harvey Weinstein would have fit well into Apco.


Part of the brainwashing was. It was inappropriate. To speak out against weaknesses in the leadership. Particularly in public. Yes, the leadership is especially good at it. Manipulation.

Praying for John's resurrection. I recall some people left the LW. They wanted the prayers to resurrect John to stop. I can see how G and other pastors. Now view it as an extreme embarrassment. But they should own it.

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