lily rose - It’s easy to assume that dealing with cult leaders is a relatively new problem, but Paul was having issues with false apostles, even in the early church. I love the wording in the Message for Colossians 2:18 – it helps illuminate our experience in TLWF. It says,” Don’t tolerate people who try to run your life, ordering you to bow and scrape, insisting that you join their obsession with angels and that you seek out visions. They’re a lot of hot air, that’s all they are. They’re completely out of touch with the source of life, Christ, who puts us together in one piece, whose very breath and blood flow through us. He is the Head and we are the body. We can grow up healthy in God only as he nourishes us.” I also like 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 which says,” And I’m not changing my position on this. I’d die before taking your money. I’m giving nobody grounds for lumping me in with those money-grubbing “preachers,” vaunting themselves as something special. They’re a sorry bunch—pseudo-apostles, lying preachers, crooked workers—posing as Christ’s agents but sham to the core. And no wonder! Satan does it all the time, dressing up as a beautiful angel of light. So it shouldn’t surprise us when his servants masquerade as servants of God. But they’re not getting by with anything. They’ll pay for it in the end.”

I’ve often wondered why God would allow us to suffer so much under false shepherds, when we were sincerely seeking to follow Him. One answer I’ve received for myself is that He had given me His word, and I had followed the teaching of another instead. To be honest, I thought it was unfair at first. However, as time has passed, I’ve come to appreciate the safety and truth of every word He has spoken, and also the destruction that comes from following the teaching of man – including those professing to be Christians. Sometimes the false has to come to light in order for the true to become evident. Unfortunately, many never continue their search for the truth after being wounded by the false. Knowing what doesn’t work does have some value if you don’t stop there. If Edison were still alive, he could tell us thousands of ways not to build a light bulb.

NickleandDimed – Thanks for the new link!

I appreciate reading how Larry Bobo has made sense of his experience in the LW cult on what could have been for him a life shattering experience. His reflections show me how each persons journey after exiting is uniquely personal. I'm still unable to join much of anything and others like Larry can join a mainstream church. But I think Larry, many in the forum, and I share the same view that analysis of the LW cults flaws and hot air is one way to explore a new freedom and new beginning outside of the cult...kind of a post mortem on our personal experiences. I do find that I need to discuss the Nazi hierarch flaws and abuses less often as time goes by.

Members still inside the LW cult may still view themselves as a God inspired remnant to bring forth the Kingdom, and there may be some prophetic evidence that speaks to their hearts. I'm not trying to take that away from the members. But what I would point out is that the LW distorts and perverts what the Gospel says about the Kingdom and serving the leadership as agents of God and vaunting themselves as something special to the extent that (and this is how it ended for me) the belief in the Kingdom becomes less beautiful under their system of thought control, coercive persuasion, submission and unrealistic expectations.

I'm always curious to know. For those who weren't kicked out. At what point do those who leave get disillusioned? Is it after maxing out your credit cards? Or after studying the School of Prophets manuals for 40 years. Never gaining the power of telekinesis. Or never seeing the leadership gain prophetic extraordinary powers of any kind. Part of making sense of the agony. I endured. Is now I have a chance to find out. Who I really am.

N&D, for me it was many things. But a major factor in my deciding to leave was a deep unhappiness I felt. I had a great disappointment in what I had believed in, how it did not come to pass. And also the realization that many people were receiving deep emotional damage by this cult. I could no longer participate in this community.

BTW, this thread is extremely interesting and applicable to the LW.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2017 09:57PM by puddington.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, this thread is extremely interesting and
> applicable to the LW.
>
> [forum.culteducation.com]

Excellent thread. Thanks for the referral. It is very applicable to our experience in the cult-
'love bombed' until you were an intrinsic part of the fellowship, followed by consistent harshness.
Of course John, and later Gary, would justify this approach by leadership as the application of discipline (allegedly rooted in love) that will eventually produce 'Sons.' Just about everyone who has posted here knows otherwise.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm always curious to know. For those who weren't
> kicked out. At what point do those who leave get
> disillusioned? Is it after maxing out your credit
> cards? Or after studying the School of Prophets
> manuals for 40 years. Never gaining the power of
> telekinesis. Or never seeing the leadership gain
> prophetic extraordinary powers of any kind. Part
> of making sense of the agony. I endured. Is now I
> have a chance to find out. Who I really am.

For me, I was beginning to lose interest to some extent. I had a new job that was pulling my attention. One night (driving home around midnight) after standing in a circle of elders pumping our fists and screaming “WE LOOSE THE APOSTLE”, I decided enough was enough. None of us were ever told what we were praying for and with all that yelling, the “Appostle” should have been so loose that it would take gallon of Imodium to tighten him back up.

I talked it over with my wife and we decided to set it aside for a while. “A while” has been about 40 years so far. Never regretted it, never looked back (until I discovered this forum a couple years ago).

I remember Thinking at the time “where is the, joy, peace and happiness they talk about?”.

I noticed that TLWF thread has the second highest number of views on the Cult Education site, next to Soka Gakkai International (SGI) – which I’ve never heard of. I clicked on the site for curiosity sake and stumbled on this:

“When I tried to discuss my questions and concerns with my leaders, I got no answers. They just got angry with me for questioning. One of our senior leaders, a Japanese man, yelled at me and said, "Americans ask too many questions!" And yet at the same time, the SGI talks about how "democratic" the organization is and how they believe in "dialogue." Yes, just don't disagree with any leaders or any organizational policies and you can have a great dialogue!

At this time, the adulation of the SGI president, Daisaku Ikeda, seemed to increase. We were being told that we had to take him as our mentor -- a man that most of us have never even met. Members speak of loving him and wanting to 'fulfill his expectations," to 'be good disciples.' We were told that "You must accept President Ikeda as your mentor. Without a personal connection to him, you will not reach enlightenment and you will fall into the hell of incessant suffering."

Whoa. The Buddha said, "Follow the law and not the person." The SGI is now saying the polar opposite of that...follow the person and not the law. That's not Buddhism. The Soka Gakkai is no longer practicing Buddhism. They are practicing Ikedaism. Members who question this are told that they are "disrupting the unity of the organization," as well as sinning and bringing bad karma upon themselves. At this point, I knew that I could not stay in the organization any longer. Nor have I been able to remain friends with any of the members. Some act as if they are afraid of me. When I run into them by chance, they seem surprised that I'm healthy, still employed, and enjoying my life.”

The point I would like to make is that whether it is TLWF, Scientology, Buddhism or any other cult, the methodology for control is the same. Only the doctrines differ. The other thing they all have in common is the damaged lives that are left in their wake and the lack of concern or sense of responsibility by the leadership for causing so much suffering.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> “When I tried to discuss my questions and
> concerns with my leaders, I got no answers. They
> just got angry with me for questioning.

If you were a newbie to the LW, you could make a gaffe and not feel ostracized. When I began attending services in the Valley, every Thursday morning JRS would minister to the people. He would tell people what was going to happen and he would do this one after another. People were so eager to come up and have this done. One Thursday after showing up late to work at the LW building, one of the elders asked be where I had been. I said I went to the ministry service. The elder asked me how was it and I said it was almost like an Edgar Cayce reading. The elder missed the sarcasm and told me that Brother Steven would not appreciate what I said. But, he gave me a hug anyway (love bombing). He always gave me really tightly squeezed hugs. But I didn't make much of it at the time. I recall asking this elder what was the deal with pastors outside of the LW saying don't let Brother Steven lay hands on you. The elder didn't get angry and gave me an answer that assured me nothing bad would come of it. As I said, at the time I was a newbie. I would have rather been love bombed than insulted. But love bombing newbies to use, control or manipulate them is wrong. Years later, and not a newbie, when I questioned a pastor about some insane direction I had been given, the pastor insulted me. The insulting words were a low blow and still haunt me to this day.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> N&D, for me it was many things. But a major
> factor in my deciding to leave was a deep
> unhappiness I felt. I had a great disappointment
> in what I had believed in, how it did not come to
> pass. And also the realization that many people
> were receiving deep emotional damage by this cult.
> I could no longer participate in this community.


That's pretty much how the cookie crumbled for me. Towards the end of my stint at Shiloh, I was getting pretty sick and tired of ministries taking their own imagination for the voice of God. I recall talking to an Amish lady at the Kalona Health Store. She invited me to her home to purchase fresh cream. Afterwards, I thought the Amish Community version of Christianity looked more like Jesus than the LW. I thought if I were Amish, I would be able to mix freely with those who don't twist the scriptures and turn Jesus into Rambo. I was confused, but I was starting to doubt what the LW had taught me which meant I was starting to think.