Thanks so much for the message Kbyrne, and everybody here. I didn't think anything existed like this forum, because JRS died so long ago. Encouraging but sad that the impact is still being felt today. No pun intended.

It's so hard to explain this belief system to anyone who's never experienced it. I have this built in instinctual disdain for all other forms of Christianity because they're too lukewarm or they have a 'religious spirit.' Right now I'm just trying to find my faith again independent from my parents and their version the Walk. They could never accept that anyone else was close to God, Made my wife feel like she was an atheist in comparison. We have found one church that we really like the people and are going to keep trying to go.

I think you did the right thing protecting your family from this. Really

Kbyrne wrote:
I left the Walk 30 years ago and it's only recently that I've tried to understand what it is that I was involved in. This group has been a great resource and a great encouragement to me. Know that you're not alone, many of us still struggle, but I feel a bit freer every day.

That's good to hear, Kbyrne. The truth should set us free, even if it's initially painful to bear. There's a tendency (I think) not to honestly face what we've been through, believing that we would be healthier suppressing those memories.

> The lie I was told was that it was impossible to
> understand the Bible without the interpretation of
> it from JRS (then later, G&M). YASP kids were
> encouraged to skip reading the Bible and just
> listen to tapes.

Yes--if the YASP kids learn to give themselves to their shepherds (designated relationships), who in turn give themselves to their shepherds, who in turn give themselves to their shepherds...all the way up the line...God will be happy, and everyone will 'break through'. It's called the upward flow. It's the main theme of the Bible and the tapes. Oops--make that just the tapes.

kbyrne, glad you are still posting. You mentioned snide remarks. I've come to value snide remarks. I got from the peanut gallery. As they piled up. I knew I had to get out. Like you, I really appreciate the resources and links the group has posted. In one of your older posts, you said M had interpreted Apostolic Order to mean Chronological Order and she was first in line. Do you think she meant first in line because she had been John's wife? I don't recall John ever teaching about that.

Doing my own research on the LW led me to a book. Larson's Book of World Religions. Pages 111-113 talks of a lawsuit John brought against Dad Stevens. It was about money mismanagement. I didn't know about it. Imagine suing your own father. In part. It explains part of the chaos that was in the air at Shiloh.

I've been no contact with my family for about a month now and yesterday I had a very strange encounter with my mom.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In one of your older posts, you said M had
> interpreted Apostolic Order to mean Chronological
> Order and she was first in line. Do you think she
> meant first in line because she had been John's
> wife? I don't recall John ever teaching about
> that.
>
> Doing my own research on the LW led me to a book.
> Larson's Book of World Religions. Pages 111-113
> talks of a lawsuit John brought against Dad
> Stevens.


Thanks NickleandDimed. I've been reading posts from the group when I can, as well as trying to read the books/resource others have mentioned. I'm going to check out Larson's book now as well.

Re: Marilyn and Apostolic order was more like numerical order -- I misspoke and said chronological order -- and Marilyn was number one. It was my understanding this was something JRS told her before he died.

Years ago I told my friend who is still in the Walk that I wasn't comfortable with the Marilyn and Gary thing. I didn't understand it. She couldn't explain it to me and said that she would talk with someone. She talked with Wendy C. and got back to me and told me that Wendy said I needed a revelation, that's the only way I would understand it. My friend also sent me a tape that was a recording of Marilyn's. It was on that tape that Marilyn said that she was number one in the Apostolic order. To be honest, I listened to about 5 minutes and I just couldn't listen to any more.

And I remember there was a lawsuit re: JRS and his dad. I don't know the outcome. I left Shiloh in 1980. Somewhere in the late 70's, when I was working in transcribing, Fred -- Washington Iowa pastor -- wanted us to transcribe all his sermons first before we did John's because we were using Washington Iowa's transcribing machines. The whole thing was a mess. There was a power struggle for sure. My memory is that Dad Stevens was much more involved in the Washington church than in Shiloh. And from my memory, Dad Stevens was much more likely to back Fred. Then, of course, Fred was married to John's sister, and that brought another level of conflict from what I can remember.

Being able to look back at it now, there were girls from the Washington church that used to work in transcribing with us at Shiloh and they just stopped coming. I never reached out, I never understood why, and you just didn't ask questions.

Tknc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been no contact with my family for about a
> month now and yesterday I had a very strange
> encounter with my mom.


I don't know if you've watched any of Leah Remini's program on Scientology or not. It's certainly more extreme than my experience, but definitely saw similarities. And almost every person she talks with, there's a deep family dynamic involved.

kbyrne Wrote:

> I don't know if you've watched any of Leah
> Remini's program on Scientology or not. It's
> certainly more extreme than my experience, but
> definitely saw similarities. And almost every
> person she talks with, there's a deep family
> dynamic involved.

I need to see that--thanks.

Thanks kbyrne for your post. That statement from Wendy C saying "you needed a revelation" got me to thinking. I heard that line alot the whole time I was in the LW. First it was "you gotta get a revelation of The Apostle", then it was "you gotta get a revelation of John and Marilyn", then it was Marilyn, and then Gary & Marilyn. And no matter how hard I tried, no light bulb ever came on for me.

My conclusion: There ain't no "revelation" to get !!!!!

This is just a BS trick that cults pull to get members to think there is some kind of mysterious new level they have to achieve before everything becomes perfectly clear. It's a way to shut up those that are asking questions about odd things (unethical things) going on in the leadership.

I think what they are describing as "a revelation experience" is actually some sort of inner core yielding to the cult mindset. A personal giving in and turning off of their inner voice, who has been protesting quietly inside them about the observed odd things.

The leaders will say "you think too much" and say how you are being influenced by satan for having these doubts. But lets be careful about blaming the devil for what our own brains (the brains God gave us) are telling us.

This statement is something I have heard all my life (even though my family left the church in '82). The entire time I have been married to my wife, my family would tell me she "needs a revelation" of Christ and the body of Christ aka my family. She tried for four years. She never got one and my mom started calling her a heathen.

This is not something you can explain to an outsider and there is no clear path to have it. I pretended for a long time that I had one to feel like I belonged to my family. This description of the inner core yielding is very accurate and scary.