PBX/LILY:

Just to add a prodigal perspective to the discussion, Jesus explained our experience here as a desire for something more 'special' than what we already had while hanging out with Dad. One could aptly define that 'specialism' as narcissism, something that afflicts everyone by degrees, some more than others.

Our entire prodigal journey goes from being self-absorbed, narcissistic and exclusive, to one of selflessness and inclusion. These are the measures of TRUE SPIRITUALITY. Everyone is somewhere in the process, no matter what their position in life. Position itself ascribes to no one any magic pill for MATURITY. The journey is one measured by degrees of LOVE, where our LOVE-level is the only plumbline by which SPIRITUAL MATURITY is measured.

Unfortunately, LOVE was never the plumbline used in TLW, the result being the damage chronicled on this forum. Perhaps there will be ears to hear and eyes to see the correction required in the future.

kBoy your post kind of made my day. Love definitely wasn't the plumbline. According to some posts, Miller brought Gary in and I doubt Gary was a full blown narcissist then. We all bought into the power and authority leadership model for different reasons and maybe Gary bought into it to justify his own will for power. Even the shunning and silent treatment when you were going through it were narcissistic.

PS. I totally acknowledge the invaluable contribution of this post. Furthermore, I would like to thank myself for......

A realistic alternative to the U. of Shiloh and TLW SOP:

[vimeo.com]

(Rubber meeting the road.)

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Cloudwatcher,
>
> What you're feeling is normal. I can't imagine 50
> years of it, but the good thing is there are
> resources to help. Do you have a support system?
> If you want to talk about anything, feel free to
> PM me. I love you.
>
> PS: You're absolutely right about those wolves.

Thank you for that. I did PM you. I wish I had more support in person--but it is mostly online.

Anybody know anything about Apostle Dog? He hasn't posted for a couple months.

FCSLC mentioned a quote from John talking about his remodeled chicken coop where he used to wait on the Lord. Many times through the years John talked about how God had personally given him revelation for what was later to become the Walk. After I left TLWF, I began researching John and discovered that what he claimed he had received by revelation, was actually the teaching of the Latter Rain movement. He was ex-communicated from the Assembly of God for some of his “new revelations”.

Here are some examples that go beyond mainstream Christianity teaching, but are fundamental to the Latter Rain movement: the manifestation of the sons of God, restoration of the church, restoration of the five-fold ministries, pre-rapture spiritual second coming of Christ, new revelation and prophesies, overcoming death before Christ’s return, dominion now theology, other Christians referred to as old order or Babylon, personal ministry with words from God, emphasis on the Jewish feasts, Manchild doctrine, Joel’s army and militancy, moving into deeper levels of revelation, incarnation of Christ in a many membered body, divine order, shepherding, and father/son mentoring.

Does any of that look strangely familiar? About the only thing missing is the Door Opener Apostle and the Lamp of IsraeI. I mentioned this to a LWF pastor and he said it was only proof that God was speaking the same word to many people. Later, I received an email from one of John’s relatives that had been occasionally following the Factnet website, and he thought I’d be interested in knowing that when Martha died, they carried out boxes of reel-to-reel tapes from the Latter Rain movement. Perhaps John was only looking for “confirmation” to what God had been speaking to him – not teaching he could plagiarize and call his own. I personally suspect his revelation was not as original as he claimed.

I think it is important to realize that all of us can have our minds controlled to believe certain doctrines or new revelations What a cult cannot do is actually perform their teaching. I believe this is why Jesus said to look at the fruit, not just the words. Have you seen any manifestation of the sons of God taking control over world governments or overcoming death before Christ’s return? It has a lure of feeding the ego, but in the real world, it’s just not happening. It’s always going to take place in the next level, which seem to constantly come and go without any fruit. The only ones that get ruled over are the followers of the cult leaders. The benefits of the “upward flow” only go in one direction. When “Send me money and God will make you rich” doesn’t work, the answer is always “You need to send me more money”.

L.B.

"The Latter Rain movement: the manifestation of the sons of God, restoration of the church, restoration of the five-fold ministries, pre-rapture spiritual second coming of Christ, new revelation and prophesies, overcoming death before Christ’s return, dominion now theology, other Christians referred to as old order or Babylon, personal ministry with words from God, emphasis on the Jewish feasts, Manchild doctrine, Joel’s army and militancy, moving into deeper levels of revelation, incarnation of Christ in a many membered body, divine order, shepherding, and father/son mentoring."

This seems to be quite a laundry list, the makings of which could form the basis of School of Prophets Manuals. What a surprise . . .

I do give JRS this though. He certainly did re-invent himself (after being rejected by the Assembly of God for espousing Latter Rain doctrine) as Apostle to the Kingdom, then Door Opener and on and on. M pretty much re-invented herself too... Lamp of Israel. IMO the re-inventions were false, not authentic, had no substance, no evidence.....a myth. People tend to try and re-invent themselves to rebound from defeat and disappointment and these days it's kind of a personal development/self help way to personal recovery.

It's sad that members have experienced profound loss because of the false re-inventions.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I think it is important to realize that all of us
> can have our minds controlled to believe certain
> doctrines or new revelations What a cult cannot
> do is actually perform their teaching. I believe
> this is why Jesus said to look at the fruit, not
> just the words. Have you seen any manifestation
> of the sons of God taking control over world
> governments or overcoming death before Christ’s
> return? It has a lure of feeding the ego, but in
> the real world, it’s just not happening. It’s
> always going to take place in the next level,
> which seem to constantly come and go without any
> fruit. The only ones that get ruled over are the
> followers of the cult leaders. The benefits of
> the “upward flow” only go in one direction.
> When “Send me money and God will make you
> rich” doesn’t work, the answer is always
> “You need to send me more money”.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It has been enlightening to me that we are having this discussion on mind control. The process of mind control for me has been difficult to understand and I am only beginning to wrap my brain around it. Before I came to this forum I recall reading a discussion here between changedagain and jhorning on mind control (I had the same questions as jhorning) and it really opened my eyes to the fact that something was going on but I didn't grasp what it was because I think the term mind control is misunderstood.

Some in writing about mind control think that the term undue influence is more fitting. Mind control in a cult does not mean absolute control of a person's mind. It is a shorthand term for a complex process of mental and psychological manipulation. It's a way of changing a person's thinking (have John's thinking or have Marilyn's thinking) through a number of techniques such as deception or manipulation of trust and other ways that Larry has pointed out. These techniques are very subtle and very difficult to explain satisfactorily to anyone who has not themselves experienced a cult.

Prior to G&M you may have come to TLW through a church that was not cultish (such as AD has previously described) and you many not have experienced undue influence from a pastor or elders but if you religiously listed to tapes, even while sleeping as many did, and you were really sucked into the TLW movement, you may have experienced mind control or undue influence.

HEADBANGER NEWS: From Womb to Tomb

"Dedicated To Raising Our Children For God"
September 3, 2016

[www.churchofthelivingwordniteroi.org]

"Parents should not project their personal dreams of fulfillment upon their children." (As in being brainwashed by TLW ideology?)

"Instead, it is important to lead each child into its destiny in God." (Indoctrinate them into TLW ideology.)

"A parent’s true success is having their child walk with God." (Become life-long tithing members of TLW.)