changedagain Wrote:
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> God help those who have innocently served all
> these years and have been subjected to this
> unending torment--not able to envision any other
> life for themselves. I could not care less about
> the leadership. They must know the harm
> they have inflicted, while they feast on the
> sacrifice of others. They can't be that clueless.


Hear hear. It is tragic to watch as the toilet swirls round and round and the turd just won't go down.

> Gary reads a plea for making amends, and instead
> of experiencing a change of heart and having the
> desire to make a course correction, he sees a
> parishioner as apostate and in need of counseling
> to get right minded.

????? When?

Hi all, I have read to try and catch up--but I can't process much right now. I am going in and out of shock at the actual price I have paid--a dear price--for leaving.

The horror of having lived in that crucible---it is beyond words as I watch my world crumbling into something that will be better than anything I have known since childhood and the brainwashing I endured for over 50 years-- talk about criminal--how is it some person can just walk in to your life and take it for themselves? I don't care how kind or loving he was, he was a sick man and the sooner we all realize that and make peace with it, the better.

I know people who still hang on to the thinking that it was all good until Marilyn. It was not good, not good at all. And if John had not died, it still would have gotten as bad, if not worse than it did under the gruesome control of G and M. I don't believe John would have wanted things the way they became--but he was headed there with her.

Hey Cloudwatcher,

What you're feeling is normal. I can't imagine 50 years of it, but the good thing is there are resources to help. Do you have a support system? If you want to talk about anything, feel free to PM me. I love you.

PS: You're absolutely right about those wolves.

Cloudwatcher. Over 50 years. Wow.

lily rose;

It's wonderful that your sibling managed to summon the courage to seek therapy from a trained professional, and that the result was a restoration of your relationship. (not to mention your sibling's new found freedom)! My hope is that there are many, many stories to come that resemble your experience.

It is also pretty great that there is a place like this forum to share our experiences in order that we may heal.

I tend to be a bit cynical about any hope of Gary having an experience similar to your sibling. He is too entrenched in his delusion of grandeur. It takes a certain level of self obsession to believe that you alone are responsible for ushering in the Kingdom of Heaven on the Earth. Most narcissists (no way of knowing if Gary has been in any way assessed) such as Cult leaders never seek any sort of mental health guidance or ponder that perhaps they may have wronged others, as they are convinced they are the one that is normal, and it's everyone else that has the problem. But hope springs eternal, yes?

It's truly wonderful that you and your sibling reconnected :)

On page 17 of “Experiment in End Time Apostasy: The Walk of John Robert Stevens -- The History, Beliefs, and Spiritual Dynamics of a Christian Cult by Woodrow Nichols,” there is the following quote from JRS himself:

“But we did enjoy this and during that, that chicken house was converted into a small sanctuary for the Lord to meet my heart. We sought the Lord and He began to speak to me concerning the time that we would leave this traveling through the churches and that the Lord would give me a church and people."

[[Stevens, John Robert "How God met me in Psalm 144," Living Word Tapes (17 AUG 1975)]]

It’s disturbing to me when JRS says, “The Lord would give ‘me’ a church and people.” The concept of a human owning or being given ownership of humans is not in agreement with the teachings of Jesus. It’s no wonder so many atrocities have occurred. God owns the Creation, giving agency to each individual. Anyone not recognizing this truth is dangerous and should be avoided.

For me, going to church was never equated with giving myself to the pastor---giving away my rights and agency. This forum is helping me take back the high ground.

Thanks to all.

FCSLC Wrote:
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> >
> > It’s disturbing to me when JRS says, “The Lord
> would give ‘me’ a church and people.” The
> concept of a human owning or being given ownership
> of humans is not in agreement with the teachings
> of Jesus. It’s no wonder so many atrocities
> have occurred. God owns the Creation, giving
> agency to each individual. Anyone not recognizing
> this truth is dangerous and should be avoided.
>
>_____________________________________________________________

Hear hear. It's ironic that the church the Lord allegedly gave JRS could cause so many psychological problems for the members and at the same time JRS poo-pooed psychological therapy. I think from some of the points that you, pbsguy, Larry, changed and others have made is.... there are a variety of paths to healing, both spiritual and secular. My sibling took a secular path which involved meds and talk therapy, Larry has described a combination of professional help and spiritual healing from his relationship to the Lord. And both changedagain and FCSLC have expressed being helped by this forum. And for some I would imagine having a support system of friends and family can be enough support. When I left, I didn't do anything except push all the feelings down for decades. I never talked about it even in my most meaningful relationships... until years later I ran into my old friend from the Walk (the one who had the JRS arranged marriage) and we talked for hours on end and we still do. I don't recommend the route of just pushing the feelings down for anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2016 02:16AM by lily rose.

pbxguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I tend to be a bit cynical about any hope of Gary
> having an experience similar to your sibling. He
> is too entrenched in his delusion of grandeur. It
> takes a certain level of self obsession to believe
> that you alone are responsible for ushering in the
> Kingdom of Heaven on the Earth. Most narcissists
> (no way of knowing if Gary has been in any way
> assessed) such as Cult leaders never seek any sort
> of mental health guidance or ponder that perhaps
> they may have wronged others, as they are
> convinced they are the one that is normal, and
> it's everyone else that has the problem.

I think your assessment is accurate, PBX.

pbxguy,

I did a little reading on narcissism because of my sibling. It seems some in the field of psychology have concluded narcissism is epidemic in our society. We all have little narcissism in us. As I reflect back on the School of Prophets (having attended the 70's sessions) and knowing what I know now, I would rename it the School of Narcissists, without a doubt.

I agree with you pbxguy, it's unlikely G will seek treatment on his own. But I do think that God or even the Universe could bring a serious trail to his life to change his direction. I know someone with family still in TLW who asks for that daily. I like the term hope springs eternal but that's not what I am talking about.

I am glad we are having this discussion. I think what you're pointing out about narcissism is information the members should understand. Narcissists lack EMPATHY...they profoundly lack EMPATHY. I love what Larry said in his last post, you can't be cruel and say you represent God. You can't have it both ways. Love ya.