from April of 2017:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: April 07, 2017 07:18AM

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The “mind” you’re describing seems for the
> most part nearly identical to the one I’ve been
> fighting against and trying to destroy for the
> past thirty-plus years.

When you were labeled "an enemy of the church" by Miller, presumably representing G & M, and conditioned like most of us to perceive it as coming from God...even if internally it made no sense...that conditioning is difficult to shake. It definitely contributes to the aspects of PTSD that many of us have faced. Of course, the truth is that you were an enemy of a corrupt, self-serving church and actually should find solace that you resisted its actions/teachings. The ones who should experience mental torment are those who callously went along with the program, and used their position to make other lives needlessly miserable. But I suspect they do not have natures that reflect on those type of things. Hope you continue to find peace FCSLC.

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is good to keep these things in mind,
> Firewalker, Reep, and Kbyne
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb again to state my
> experience with the leadership, again. I DID on a
> number of occasions tell the Bro about Mandatory
> reporting before 1983. I had my mandatory
> reporting certificates. I will swear on a bible
> that I told them.
>
> A number of the Bro are now dead. Pretty much they
> laughed me off and did not listen. ( They never
> did listen to real facts) I DID talk to JRS
> himself about safety, neglect and abuse issues. He
> said I was "bitter". And the bro in CA would call
> me a 'bitch".
>
> I have very vocal and I will stick to what I know
> for a fact that I was involved with. But, I am not
> clear as to if my testimony will help or hinder
> the right side.
>
> Firewalker?

Not everyone always follows the way my brain thinks so anyone is welcome to point out logic breaks or disconnects in what I say.

NancyB I don't think I should opine on the value of your testimony. If I do, then it is the same behavior as Onion opining on the value (or truth) of any Survivor's experiences.

What I can say is thank you for having shared your experiences. The historical context of your efforts on mandatory reporting should be shared and so I value your prior posts where you did share. It would be up to the legal team to determine if they need to utilize your information.

And in writing this I can also say that Onion's experiences likely included being TOLD survivors are "lying". I don't mean to invalidate her being TOLD such things.

What I am objecting to is perpetuating what she was TOLD without evidence. I am also objecting to her making the statements as declarations and not as, by way of example, "John Miller said X person is lying for Y reasons."

There are logic breaks for me in:

(1) a former legal professional perpetuating the authorities' claims of people's truths while also claiming you want to take down this cult.

(2) sowing seeds of doubt just like the cult did while claiming you want to take down this cult.

And (3) sowing seeds of doubt in such a way that it makes it seem like only certain people's experiences are worthy of being heard.

If the take down of this cult is done half-heartedly (apologies for walk talk) then all the cult will do is regrow. And it already is, in part. because people aren't being believed and others are silenced or too discouraged to come forward.

People need to speak truth to power even if speaking it is to people you are close to. They are difficult conversations to have; but to not question things is letting the status quo continue.

JP

P.S. writing on mobile phone with old eyes so apologies for typos!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2020 12:31AM by FireWalker.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When you were labeled "an enemy of the church" by
> Miller, presumably representing G & M, and
> conditioned like most of us to perceive it as
> coming from God...even if internally it made no
> sense...that conditioning is difficult to shake.
> It definitely contributes to the aspects of PTSD
> that many of us have faced.

Again, full disclosure: I am a feminist. I am also an agnostic. My personal language is not God based and my personal belief system is there is no "He" in the wonders of the universe. When I talk with people about spiritually related topics, though, I try to use their language (as long as it is not hateful) so they might know I am trying to understand them. And what I have read in this forum leaves me with the perception the majority are still connected with God. So no offense is intended when I ask:

Isn't it more God like to recognize He gave you free will and a guideline of ethics for living a moral, truthful, loving life?


Didn't God ask us not to worship a man (or woman), to not have idols?

Isn't elevating the words of humans to God like violating the ask that we not worship man or woman?

I would guess those are not new questions in this forum. I ask them just to share how I started shedding the cult expectations that we wouldn't question things and that jrs's teachings were the be all end all.

The way I interpreted God's guidance and directive is that I should walk one on one with Him and not be beholden to others. He gave me the tools and knowledge to try and live a moral and ethical life. To me it came down to I simply didn't need someone in "authority" to tell me how to live. God already made me "authority" enough with ethical guidance.

Likely other relevant disclosures for bias review of me; I left/was asked to leave in 1985 (for 30 years I said I left but for the last few years I view it that I was manipulated into leaving the cult and my home at 16 because I was a teenage birth-mother).

I remain vocal about this cult now because I have a much younger sibling set born into the cult. My prior inability to speak against this cult harmed my beloved sibs. One remains entangled; one is smarter and bolder than I was as a young adult and is free.

The people I identify as my parents are in the process of freeing themselves. I believe their journey has been and continues to be painful, but that's mere speculation on my part.

My views of the Bible (and generally on holy books) today are that it's a written memorization of oral histories. That just like the game of telephone, stories handed down for generations change over time and no longer reflect the precise actual events. The translations and changes in linguistics also lead me to question if they are "God's" words. I fear when the words are used out of context to be hateful and to restrict other's personal rights. But I still respect that people find solace and comfort in holy books.

For those (and more) reasons I am a firm believer of separation of church and state.

Feel free to ask questions of me to weed out my biases. We all have them and it helps find common ground when we can identify them and talk about the relevant biases.

JP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2020 01:18AM by FireWalker.

Hi Firewalker,
I welcome anyone who I perceive operates in good faith, as I sense you do.
Disagreements with those that manipulate a conversation to arrive at an acceptable conclusion, I try to stay clear of.
I think in the 12 years or so I have written in this forum, I have only complained to the moderator about one person...a troll who insinuated that one of our most credible posters was a neph, and that I had joined the church of Satan. That latter accusation was true, but it still pissed me off /s



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2020 01:52AM by changedagain.

p.s. I too am an agnostic--but respect anyone who treats others decently.

my note to the moderator (June, 2018)

> I've been a frequent poster in this particular for
> um for over ten years (I believe). Up until this
> time I've refrained from requesting that anyone be
> banned from this board, no matter how much I meet
> disagree with their opinion. I've put up with a l
> ot of aggravation because I value the principle of
> free speech, assuming somewhat is not motivated ju
> st to cause trouble (disrupt/undermine the discuss
> ion). I consider the poster N*********ed, who j
> oined this site a little over a year ago, to be in
> this latter category. He has been nothing but a di
> visive, contentious force since coming aboard. If
> he/she is not working on behalf of the cult, he is
> doing its work nonetheless. He has not
> only systematically personally attacked me since
> he's come aboard, but many of the contributors who
> se writing and truthfulness I most value...exposin
> g the pernicious practices of this cult. In one of
> his posts, he actually admitted getting info from
> someone still in the cult. Now I think he is, at b
> est, collaborating with this person(s)...or a plan
> t from the very beginning. BTW, a number of people
> in this forum have contacted me privately with the
> same suspicion, people who I consider rational, de
> cent and honest. Therefore, I am strongly urging t
> hat he be banned from participating again on this
> forum. Given all this, it is my recommendation N**
> *****ed be banned from this forum, and not all
> owed to return.
> Thank You.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2020 02:04AM by changedagain.

BTW, I did get a prompt, pleasant response from the moderator. My TLWF conditioning led to believe he might respond with something like this:
'I don't want your sh*t on my calendar.'
What a relief.

From September of 2018:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: I_woke_up ()
Date: September 07, 2018 06:08PM

I grew up and still reside in the small town of Kalona, Iowa (where Shiloh is). I came in to the Fellowship as a young child (my parents and one sibling are still involved). Until I left the organization a couple years ago, it was all I knew. At what point did I realize I was in a cult? I started questioning things when I started seeing a therapist for a health issue. Whenever I discussed comments I was receiving from “church” my therapist (who was Christian) would say “tell me again, what kind of church is this?” “I’m a Christian, and I don’t believe that.” I feel naive saying this now, but I was like “Really? You mean, my pain isn’t caused because I don’t pray hard enough?” (yes, I was told that!)

In addition to therapy, I was prescribed meditation as a means to deal with my chronic pain. During one of my meditations, I had a profound spiritual experience. Well, my naive self thought who better to talk to about a spiritual experience than ones pastors? I couldn’t have been more wrong. I don’t know what I was expecting… validation, maybe? Instead, I got what I will call a “deer in headlights” reaction. I really don’t remember all of what was said but I do remember how they made me feel! Like shit!!! I don’t think they had any idea what I was talking about.. I regretfully assumed, as “pastors” they would probably have had similar experiences and could relate. NOPE! I left feeling like, something must be wrong with me. To be perfectly honest, I was so brainwashed with this “elemental spirit” shit that I thought maybe I was crazy and “tapped” into something weird.. My husband (who didn’t grow up in TLWF) was my saving grace. He said, “are you kidding? I’ve never seen you happier!” He encouraged me to keep doing whatever I was doing because I was happy! Believe it or not, this had never occurred to me. Follow happiness? What? Really? I can do that?

The more I “followed my heart” (sounds cheesy but true) the more I was like, “I never believed most of this stuff anyway!” Why am I still going? Pain can be a funny thing. It’s a sure fire way to get rid of the “SHIT” in your life. Now.. I’m grateful for it.

Oh, I forgot to add.. During all this.. when planning a dinner out with the lead pastors of Shiloh, my husband was going to send the pastor’s wife a meeting request and she told him, “I don’t want your shit on my calendar.”

Sincerely,

I_woke_up

F I R E w a l k e r

A highly commendable summation of your belief system, most of which I agree with.

TLW, and Christianity in general, have done an impressive job in souring the relationship we have with that 'still small voice', which represents SPIRIT and not flesh (another belief system, I know).

This entire forum actually has little or nothing to do with our CREATOR, and everything to do with a false narrative pitched on 'its' behalf, with all the attendant abuses.

Religion/fear is a black hole. SPIRIT/LOVE is the LIGHT. (Sorry moderator.)

I w o k e U P

(If you are listening . . .)

That is such a disheartening account, especially with regards to having your spiritual experience completely discounted probably by someone who never had one of their own.

With the devolution of the 'spiritually focused' JRS era (along with the fantasies and hallucinations) into the strictly controlled hierarchy of the G&M era, where any 'spiritual anomalies' were a threat to heavy-handed control, experiences such as yours became less frequent to almost non-existent, especially on the leadership level.

Worse still, much of the focus of the leadership devolved into having experiences of the flesh and not the SPIRIT.

No wonder this train-wreck occurred.