changedagain Wrote:December 22, 2019 01:33AM
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> True, Cloudwatcher. It is sad.
>
> 'You’ll Worry Less About What People Think of
> You When You Realize How Seldom They Do'
>
> This adage certainly applies to Hargrave. Even
> when feigning concern and backing a gesture of
> goodwill--such as the authorized 'Thinking of You'
> pre-printed birthday cards sent out years ago--it
> is but a hollow effort. If he is reaching out to
> people now, it's most likely to support his need
> to counter the flood of truthful allegations that
> have surfaced online by ex-members of the church...

Grandma's used to send birthday cards with money tucked inside. If Hargraves really cared enough to send the very best and if they really had any revelation he would be sending "thinking of you cards' with rent money or refunds tucked inside...I'll wager a prophesy, "not going to happen."

Onion Wrote: December 31, 2019 05:04AM
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> I just posted this on FaceBook but wanted to post
> it here as well:
>
> I have posted over the previous year information
> about the exposure of the church group I was
> involved in for 40+ years. New people continue to
> come forward with new stories and details of
> horrors committed by the leadership of The Living
> Word Fellowship of churches. And yet I know there
> are still huge areas of darkness where people are
> either afraid to come forward or are hiding
> themselves or because they continue to support the
> leaders/perpetrators.
>
> At the same time we have seen the highest level of
> mass killings based on race and religion in the
> U.S. in 2019. Here is an excerpt of a book I am
> reading. Without comparing the degree of crime or
> horror and certainly without minimizing the
> holocaust that is the subject of this book, in
> your mind substitute the words "Third Reich" and
> "genocide" for the horrors being described by
> victims of serial murder based on race/religion
> and serial sexual assault perpetrated in the
> church I belonged to (TLWF).
>
> Accepting the truth is part of putting a stop to
> it.
>
> The Holocaust by Bullets – Father Patrick Desbois
> Quoting pages 61-62 from Ch. VIII Accepting The
> Truth
>
> In my experience, the most difficult part of
> discovering and gaining personal knowledge of
> genocide is accepting the truth about what
> happened. To know all the details while at the
> same time being able to continue to live a full
> life, without forgetting or hiding what one knows
> about the past.
>
> It is no longer a question of getting stuck with
> certain impressions, of feeling sick, or worse, of
> remaining immobilized with terror. Terror is part
> of the strategy of those who commit genocide.
> Like predators, the create ways of petrifying
> their victims before killing them. When the
> Jewish victims got off the trains onto the
> Judenrampe, between Auschwitz and Birkenau, they
> were terrified. When the family of a kolkhoze Jew
> was suddenly taken to the edge of an irrigation
> well 70 meters deep to be thrown into it, they
> were paralyzed with fear. Terror can be generated
> by the sole mention of genocide, by the reading of
> a book on the subject, or at seeing archival
> images of it, or on visiting a former
> concentration camp.
>
> If, sixty years later, we allow ourselves to be
> terrified as well, though, we are allowing the
> people of the Third Reich, who perpetrated
> genocide, an additional victory. Terror can
> immobilize thought and awareness, and hinder the
> ability to remain responsible, confrontational,
> and strong in front of the perpetrators of
> genocide.
>
> The perpetrators are like serial killers, only
> they operate on a much larger scale, at a national
> or continental level. They certainly are not
> terrified, and they know that most people cannot
> and do not want to think of the possibility of an
> act of genocide. Ordinary people want to sleep,
> and the simple thought of genocide can prevent an
> ordinary person from sleeping. The perpetrators
> of genocide bank on this to set up mechanisms for
> mass killing in all tranquility: No one will be
> able to conceive, hence accept and want to
> believe the truth.


Onion, what you have shared is so valuable to us. I can only add one thing. The threat of death; the threat of torture; the threat of starvation; the threat of rape of ourselves or our children is all about Power and Control over other human beings.

Psychology 101 taught us about Pavlov's dogs salivating when they heard a bell. We who listened to the Living Word were trained like Pavlov's dogs to "salivate" when we heard certain things. We learned to live in fear of missing out on th kingdom on Earth - fear of genocide/ extermination.

Lilith Wrote:December 31, 2019 11:40PM
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> I have in the past and currently refer to them as
> the "Alcoholic company". I have no plans to
> repent.

Lilith and Changed: I 2nd that. I have no intention of repenting either for spitting out the truth in a number of cases that I all too often witnessed first hand.
Functional alcoholism does not look like a Skid Row bum. Sure they drove to services and back home.
I did not buy passing the leftover communion cup and the bottle when they could have taken the problems to God in prayer at the altar instead of over appreciating being not legalistic.

January 02, 2020 03:15PM

Onion you wrote,"I heard some interesting information today that leads me to believe that the churches that have no shutdown, have also NOT changed their Bylaws. When asked, someone at one of the churches said there was no need to change the Bylaws. Which means... Gary Hargrave still has sole control as the Apostolic Fathering Ministry. I could be wrong. I will see what I can research.

People have a right to know."
I'd love to know the answer.


When have the people actually known or voted on the bylaws? (How about prayed abotu them?)

I've been gone a long time so perhaps i did not know that the people were ever involved in business meetings of the church like most denominations allow.

Most denominational churches vote on things lie new pastors or Sunday school budget or what kind of songs for the worship team to sing that will bring in new members. I don't recall TCLW ever let people vote. So, did the people vote of the bylaws? Do you know?

If I were still a member, ( I'm not) I would question how a leader can abandon the flocks and still have power and control. Does anyone know if Hargraves is still collecting a salary or helping to pay local church expenses?

"He who is without sin let him throw the first stone" at me for asking.

Most sincerely,

I M A Tattletale (King James would translate as Judas.)

Thank you kBOY I appreciate your encouragement!

Reepicheep Wrote:January 08, 2020 10:41PM
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> Typer, I agree that Martha Stevens was a good and
> loving person. There was nothing wrong with her.
> Her husband had a roving eye and didn't feel that
> his ministry could survive a divorce. So what does
> any self-respecting Apostle to the Kingdom do?
> Tell people to pray for his wife to die, of
> course. Simple. Fortunately, it didn't work. JRS
> actually died sixteen years prior to Martha at the
> age of 63.
>

Martha was a lovely woman and a fine example of, excuse me, "helpmeet".
ID'ing her as a Neph and praying for her death is gas-lighting at its best.
What happened to "bless and curse not"? If that is "Christ in the flesh" I'm glad I stopped being a disciple. How can any good person agree to go along with praying for the death of people is beyond my comprehension?

Litith wrote January 04, 2020:
..."harboring criminals and collaborators and they are cowards. And as far as the remaining churches reconstituting I hope that they realize that they are building on a foundation of disease and perversion, a shaky foundation at best."

Exactly!

I read about one state where they are prosecuting pastors from other churches for similar misconduct. One attorney general offered limited immunity for those who knew but did not report criminal acts in those cases.

It may be wise to offer the same in TLW potential cases.

I would think that there are more authorities investigating the crimes of TLW leadership then the people can guess. I would think it more prudent to quietly speak up with puzzle pieces then to continue to throw stones at those who have nothing to gain except a clear conscience and freedom from nightmares for knowing too much as victims of gas-lighting.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Members need to be aware of where non-prophit money has gone and what is actually legal or not legal when you give your offerings and what happens to that donation. I'd be asking for paperwork if you are a member. the people on the forum are not longer members and we've been asking- no responce that is transparent. why is that?

Members need to be aware of the fact that minors can not consent to sexual contact- it is crime. People need to be researching the law or hiring their own attorneys of what the consequences are instead of listening to the leadership of TLW only. Remember TLW leadership are not attorneys that can give you legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, either- just saying- we had all better know what pastors can and not do.

The allegations of crimes will hit the news soon enough- so don't be surprised when someone is serving subpoenas and "You" could have spoken up." I don't mean to sound threatening- I watch a lot of movies and have seen it happen in the script where someone has covered up crimes for someone they admire.

Don't take my word or opinion for it. Pray on it. What would the Lord have you do when "Judas" makes claims against leadership? Have you seen the paper trails to disprove what leadership claims? Do you really want to follow the same paths if old leadership did it all wrong?

Does anyone know if praying for people's death is a "hate crime" or not?

'We're not praying for the death of the nephilim, but the death of the spirit that is moving through the nephilim.' I remember John, speaking from the pulpit, justifying the death prayers by using that distinction (paraphrased).
BTW, I wonder if anyone ever informed Martha that the church was not really praying for her death, but the death of the spirit that moved through her. And if so, whether it lifted her mood.
p.s. of course, we all know that no death prayers took place at Shiloh (according to leadership). So if you ever participated in that, realize it never happened /s

ChangedAgain in reply to January 14, 2020 07:18AM

I walked out often during intersession, especially if my children were present. I thought the antics were crazy. LOL! I've always wondered just who taught the people to do the things they did during intercession.

The prayers happened, but, maybe we all were "crazy" from gas-lighted fumes, carbon monoxide or tomato riping spray.

My guess is that Martha already knew all of his bullshit cons and laughed, thinking that she would get John's 'business profits' in the divorce.

changedagain Wrote:changedagain ()
Date: January 10, 2020 04:32AM
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> “We’ll have more in depth discussion at the
> next meeting (Jan. 20) with the vision and
> how that will carry out at that time,” Schlabaugh
> said. “At the point, the developer will be public,
> and they’ll share their vision.”
>
> I suspect one way or another this vision
> will entail a very few people making off like
> bandits, and everyone else who has been
> sacrificially involved with Shiloh through the
> years, receiving the usual compensation (the inner
> satisfaction of laboring 'unto the Lord').
> Maybe I will be surprised, and there actually is a
> pony in this vision.

Whatever is developed should be much safer in the community's eyes for many reasons. I wish a nursing home would be built. Has anyone else thought of writing to the Kalona News?

Perhaps they could add a Penny the Pony ride or a carousel by a walking trail. then all of the pennies put in the coin slot to ride the pony could be stashed into a time capsule for future use...

Joking aside, this is very sad to see how so many misused family inheritances will be bulldozed into rubble.