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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2018 09:37AM by Reepicheep.

NickleandDimed we can't read mind nor turn back the clock to what was in the mind. I have have searched a lot. Putting everything togeher I know that jrs was at AngelousTemple. Grandpa sTevens studied there and Jrs was basically under foot at age 10.
I also know you can not believe every interpretation your hear or read. But, I am finding so many of jrs mentors dabbeled in many other things that were not sraight Biblical teaching. Witch craft is a sin. I have a had some ocnflict with the term "Witch" So I had look deep into definition. I am learning that the 'witch" in laughed off as a distraction: smoke and mirrors as to what the reall power and control is. Please do not ever take my word as gospel- research for your self. it is very complex. Taking a leaaders word for everything iwth out questining is what got us into a "cult" by defintion.

some sources lump controlling organizations together, so I am not sure what level she was trained at. Just becaseu the name of Jesus is used does not ever guarentee a practice or the motivation is in the will of our Creator/ God. " Not every one who cried Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven" 'In the end times even the very elect will be decieved".

Have you wondered how some people make it in Hollywood and other don't ? You have to have connections. I will leave that alone for anyone who wants to research history in the early 1920 to 1940's of that area where the walk was born.

I did a lot of research on history of the charasmatic movement and latter rain, kathrine Kulman , Aimee SmP, Smith Wigglewworth ( from near Ames where JRS was born) Brahman and these leaders of the changes from the accepted Chistain Denomonation. it is eyes opening as to how deep the deception goes with even the old "angels of light" who JRS learned from. Where those new feedoms good or bad? I can not decide for nayone else, but those evangelical movements were the stepping stones for the walk. We will have to decide for ourselves. Not on one person's say so.

I am sick to my stomach when I dug deep on ASmP history. The man jrs was a Teddy Bear too me as a child. So I am struggling somewhat with him. I never liked M. I believe she was an opportunistic "handler" who controlled him like a puppet on a string step by step. Could I change my opinion? I need facts put together.
thank you every me for allowing me to question publically M's motivation.

The man "we" trusted did not have any revelations but "borrowed". And it seems that other leaders in other "cult" groups claim to have revelations but are nearly word for word plagarised as well. Leadership style may change. Few seem to question or look in the Bible to validate what is being twisted.

lily rose thank you for the loving words. I got my kids out of there. it was hard being all alone. While I was accused of all kind of stuff typical of that kind of following I KNEW that I had the Word of God hidden in my heart. I knew the word of God. I had studied since I was 7 or 8 memorizing chaper and verse. I knew what was right. I saw a big problem in that many zealous members did not seem to open the Bible. Yet they were doing things i was not doing. They were influenced in violent intercession to do and say things I did not feel moved to do. What/ who/ how were some leading and following while some of us are asking" why?"
Anyone trying to cover up will try to point a finger to distract from the truth. Thus the evil labeling like they did to martha.

lily rose Aimee SmP did many wonderfull things for the poor, the down drodden, any one, no matter the their color. that was ground breaking in history. Bill Stevens lovingly ran Christain Tabenacle with the same openess to every one in town as his educator, Aimee. ( His son ended up with a much larger variation of what the moving of God meant. The CA influence I think was the big differnce.)

Aimees different from the fire and brimstone judement. During the dpression her church words meant "hope". She successfully marketed her self using the radio which was a new means of communication. She offered hope to every one, the salvation of jesus. She was also a drinker and died of drug over dose. ( I am not sure if self inflicted or if someone drugged ehr to death.)

Aimee did wonderful things, but she was still a charlatain. She was promiscuous. She faked her kidnapping. She faked healings. She gave to the community and did more as a social servie agency in LA area than any social service did. Jrs and his father were educated by the woman. I see jrs followed her pattern of behavior rather than the leading of the lord.

I do not think most of the latter rain charsmatic speaking in tonques, slaying in the spirit and more were scriptural at all. In fact Jesus healing sinners came about differenntly than the faith healers of the 1900's to 2000 area ministries. Some of the practices redefined in the walk were not biblical at all except that the Bible said they were forbidden as is the sin of witch craft. ( sorry, I am preachy and to lazy to look up chapter and verse.)

kathryn Kulman preceeded Aim.
JRS also followed kathryn as well. I remember him telling about all these people. that way back when he read from the open Bible on the pulpet. There is a very nicely written post on the WAlk websthat veriifies his history that I heard him say and I mention. My thinking is we may want to evaluate everything we picked up from him by looking at real documented history of who he was mentored by. My opinion and what I am doing along with soul searching alone with god.

I see jrs followed in foot steps of cover ups by people who had become very popular and were followed with out question. Did jrs follow the leader/ mentors with out question when he was so grounded in the word? or did he find how great it feels to be elite leader with a large following?

larry lobo have I told you yet, how much I appriciate writing your insight?

"The point I think needs to be brought to light is the deception TLWF uses to cover up its teachings. I personally would have more respect for them if they would just say they are not mainstream Christianity and the goal is to get people connected and submissive to Marilyn. The fact that it is hidden in the various libraries (SOP, Reference and Shepherds) until the time that the follower is properly deceived – I’m mean has a revelation – only reveals a sheep in wolves clothing. It’s typical bait and switch – they advertise a walk with God on the front end, but it ends up that they take the place of God and must be served in His place in the final outcome. It’s not the simple Christianity they pretend it to be. There’s no reason to have to sanitize sermons and websites if motives are not amiss and there is nothing to hide. When you step outside in the in-breeding, you will find that the rest of healthy Christianity they are attempting to imitate, does not function this way – only those groups with similar problems – leaders who want to be God."


You stated this deception so elequently.
The deception was step by step by step. Like a frog in a pot of cool water on top of a stove with burner on. i hate the lies.

I appreciate knowing what was really happening after jrs passed. My father in law always, said, "Press in. GOd is moving." His words did not fill in the blanks very well as eh tried to lay a guilt trip for my leaving. The puzzle pceies seemd to have fallen in place for me now.
thanks

NancyB, have you run into any Latter Rain literature that resembles JRS’s First Principles?

We used to be told by LW leaders that God gave those lesson outlines to JRS by devine revelation. But I’ve recently read that most of those teachings were lifted from other ministries, such as William Branham.

Hi Puddington!

Enough of it decades after the fact.
So odd for for me being around age 10 I think. The First Prinicples wer printed ona printing press at Christian Tabaernacle. I saw it happen. I do not know if they printed in in Ca or not. But one of CT members was a type setter...so free labor.

"We" also printed song books. I remember a few visitors made comments than "they used the First Princlples over the Bible. How awful that John never wrote it." something to that dffect. I was upset because I saw it printied. What did I know? I was a kid.

later I help gather up some song books that all ahd to be destroy. I had to look up the word "plagarize" in the dictionary. I thought all of the songs we sang were inpired just for usa at Christain Tabernacle.

JRS had some affliation with Branham at some time I understand.

AS I go thru' the leader I recall him personally telling he was mentored by and read bits of their words, it is very clear to me that even in the late 50's he did not have a revelation of his own. At that time he did read from the Bible.

I want to cry. I knew for soe time, but I still hate it when i find out I've lied to. I'm not alone am I?

Thanks puddington

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changed again wrote :
>
> ><I.'m hearing that the L.W. members are being
> told
> > that Marilyn is under a vicious attack of
> hatred
> >from ex-members and this is why she is ill>
> ---------------
> If you remember back over the years - this type of
> theme - was often used to draw the attention away
> from what is really going on, It is a way to
> thwart the things that they (the ministry ) do
> not want the members to think about because they
> themselves ( the ministry) is upset about what
> they are reading on the forum - upset about the
> things the ex-members are saying and so they (
> the ministry ) make a spiritual commotion to
> direct the members minds to think against what
> ex-members are saying ( they use that " some one
> " is under a vicious demonic attack and this
> becomes what the members believe.) It is used to
> disqualify what the ex-members are speaking. It is
> used to not have to come right out and address
> specifically why the ministry disagrees with what
> the ex-members are trying to help them with, help
> them, so that they can deliver themselves from
> those things that need to change.
>
> IMO - There is no diversion or smoke screen that
> can be created or used to hide from truth ,
> there is no fig leaf big enough that can cover
> the shame of any pastor or ministry, who would
> lead people to believe it is right for any
> ministry or member in the church to support any
> one in destroying the relationship of a husband
> and wife, or in destroying the relationships
> between children and parents and parents and their
> children, by using God and one's devotion to God,
> as an excuse or a reason for doing or having
> done these kinds of deeds, against the members of
> a church. To cause the members of the church to
> estrange themselves from their members - who are
> put out or driven away from being able to function
> in the church as members of the church with out
> rational reason and sound just cause..
>
> Do the members of the church really believe that
> the ex-members of the church are the reason
> Marilyn is ill?
>
> Not long after John Stevens died, Bob McClane was
> told that he was the reason John Steven's died.
>
> Bob McClane had served in the ministry for years
> and any one who had any contact with Bob knows
> that Bob never said an ill word about John and I
> don't think you will find one person among all the
> members who can give one account where Bob did
> anything against John Stevens..
>
> I have heard that other people besides Bob were
> e blamed for John Stevens death at that time , but
> I am using Bob McClane as an example because every
> one knew of Bob's love for John Steven's -I am
> using the memory of Bob McClane - to show and
> point out to any one who may be reading this post
> from TLWF - to show - that there is good reason
> for them to hear and to look closely for the
> plumb line of the message that is being conveyed
> on this forum. So that they can hear the message
> and know it is not spoken with hatred.
>
> Bob McClane was given no reason for why he was
> being blamed for John Stevens death - and this is
> not only irresponsible but it is a cruel thing to
> do to any one of your members. And if you remember
> back to those years - Bob McClane did not function
> as a ministry in the church after John's death.
>
> Bob McClane was innocent of what he had been
> accused of and blamed for. He was not the
> reason John Stevens died.
>
> John Stevens died because he had prostate cancer
> and that disease ran it's course in his body until
> he died. Marilyn has been diagnosed with cancer
> and she ill because she has cancer.

this is all heartbreaking. having said this I feel like I should call in renfocements to build my auro or soemthing.

Reality check about someone mental health: we are born then at some time we will all die. It is fact of life. m was not a springs chicken.

I have a confession. I never liked M. 'I must be the jez who did it.' Rally, I never had a destructive thought towards her. or is thinking she was bossy with jrs teh first time I met her was really sinful? But she did not like me so i was the prayer list. I questioned a few things. I out lived her.

Bob Mclan did know too much. He covered way too many things he should not have, but, I think he so out of faithful devotion to the leader. Bob reamed me out, for not being a submissive wife, but I held no ill will against him either.

so, Bob passed? how are his kids?

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ?


I agree

NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Invisible Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
,
> > there is no fig leaf big enough that can
> cover
> > the shame of any pastor or ministry, who would
> > lead people to believe it is right for any
> > ministry or member in the church to support
> any
> > one in destroying the relationship of a
> husband
> > and wife, or in destroying the relationships
> > between children and parents and parents and
> their
> > children, by using God and one's devotion to
> God,
> > as an excuse or a reason for doing or having
> > done these kinds of deeds, against the members
> of
> > a church. To cause the members of the church to
> > estrange themselves from their members - who
> are
> > put out or driven away from being able to
> function
> > in the church as members of the church with out
> > rational reason and sound just cause..
> >

That is the legacy. Of the LW. Their view on thinking themselves entitled. To destroy marriages is also the thinking of the secular world.

Leadership would often be involved in arranging marriages (mine was arranged), and then when one spouse is deemed disloyal (to leadership, of course), directly or indirectly bringing an end to the marriage. Little or no regard is given to the collateral damage it causes.

As a parent I have tried to teach my children to take responcibilit for our own behavior and choices. Own up to any mistakes a fix it. That is a sign of maturity.

It is so distrubing that "the walk" has repeatedly demonstrated the lack of maturity by having to lay blame on someone else even when "Life Happens".

My conceren is this: we all have loved ones from the walk in or out at different times. This include leaders like Bob and his family, we all loved these people. Yet G & M really wounded them publically. What kind of God-like example is that to no own up and blame some one else?

That is sick, sick sick to the point of what kind of psych damamge-this is not spirtual devil to blame here- but how much mental damage is done that some one so badly damamged in the walk with go out to a chruch or an oozey and kill "nephulim" with a gun or a something.

Serioulsy, we have had so many suicides that should to have happened. I already had issues when my parents made me go as a kid. Add on the abnormal psych patterns of M behind jrs and G I have more issues that are not the normal abuse vitim issues. Yes, typical for cult survivors, but not every regular doc is prepared to deal with these kinds of issues nor do they have the right therapist to send them to.

Honestly, I feel like I should be saying some thing, like" Wll lets pray for the vcitms of the walk. Or Death to Neph." and if I don't use that lingo I feel like I may be rebuked soley because that is the way I was programed. I guess this progammed tape playing in my head is why this cult ed group exists. I am not alone. I have a feeling that many other of our fellow members do feel alone afraid to reveal the secrets warfare in the kingdom and being "soley" responcible for some ones' death. ( Just typ-oing that sounds like a crazy person.. call the nice men in the white suits to come adn take me awy. ha ha hee to the funny farm!)

Sigh of relief to say this.

I am not prophesing. I do have have crystal ball psychic powers. But I do have enough education and have seen enough ptsd that I worry about our fellow members snapping and doing something horrible crazy after being thrown out in dishonor. All the violent intercession blame on individuas heads for hampering the kingdom god is crazy making. A legal defense is not going to be " I had an openess and the devil make me do it."

I know for my self that I should be able to make a rational decission on some very simple things but I have "the walk talk" that gets in the way. That is hard on the people I live around or work around. I am cmpitnet in so many otehr areas.

Thanks for listening. I am sure you can see where I'm coming from.

I would really like to reach out to the walking wounded to hug them and say, "Hey, you are not alone. It is not your fault. Let's find some one to help us step by step break down the garbage; treat the wounds before something goes horribley wrong to hurts others."
I am having trouble getting in to an opening for thereapy. Just group therpay is not going to do enough for me. I've had pleny but never with a therapist who has worked with cults.

Yeas back when I got my kids out by calling scial service i was awafu. But the best thing. I remembr being horrifieid hearing kids we knew in kingdom school singing the songs like or chating vilent interecsssion pharses " Babylon you mother harlot." Kill the whore."

I had worked a lot at my job so my huabby i was supposed to be subbmisive to coudl spend my entire check on booze and what ever he was abusing.

Gratefully I missed a lot of meetings wher i would go with our children. If I had my kids around songs or cahts that were violent i just walked them out of the room. I knew that I did not want my kids to in the middle of a bettle field. My son says he can't racall those sessions. I am so grateful. However my kids peers and leaders kids may not have been so sheltered. soem our friends kdis had no idea the vilent things were wer repeateing by rote. So many activities, I understand got worse, were not mentally healthy especially for the kids.

We lived in a war zone fighting invsible demons that did not exist except in the delusions of some one on mind alatering substances/ booze for sure. Even soldiers get R&R. Look what all these violent video games are doing to warp the kids minds. Many in the walk never had a break from war on demons.

Point: I can not imagine what could be going thru the minds of the faithful who were devoted to caring for the sheep in light of how I feel and react to odd things that most people would not flench over. iI am in shock and horridfied that the devoted shephards who got dumped like trash were disrected so badly. Remind me of the middle east totalitarian culture " convert you infidel or we carve your head off while we rape your wife." i feel waht has happened in the walk is that mentally horrific. My opinion.

I wish I could be inspiring. I wish I could quote the scripture like " God did not give a spirit of fear" and fix everything.
I wish I did not feel like 1/2 of me is an evil demon or lacking in faith for rambling on like blithering idiot in a panic. The other 1/2 of me knows I have to say these things or I would be in denial.

I want to look like the nice, loving , kind, responcible adult that I am.