GoingRogue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > The Christ in the Flesh doctrine perpetuated in
> > TLWF replaced a relationship with Jesus with a
> > relationship with leadership. In fact, the idea
> > that an individual can have a relationship with
> > God apart from leadership was consistently
> mocked
> > in the "living word." After all these years,
> it's
> > obvious that this interpretation of scripture
> has
> > been way off-base and crippling to people's
> > lives. Good riddance to these false gods!
>
> False Christs love only those who love and idolize
> them. They love those who further their agenda.
> They claim that no one can know Jesus except by
> obeying them. They are small people who control
> their disciples through ego, fear and secrecy. If
> a follower of one of these "Christs in the Flesh"
> becomes disagreeable in some way, they are accused
> of being a satanic channel. In contrast, Jesus the
> Son of God loves everyone, whether they love Him
> back or not.


GoingRogue I appreciate you pointing out the behavior of a false Christ. Why do we buy into it when it is so apparent that the behavior is nothing more than idolatry? The Fellowship of the Martyrs website has a long list of Christ like behaviors that might would be found in someone claiming they are Christ incarnate. I tried to include it in this post but I got an error message each time I copied it to this post. I don't understand why that happened. Anyway, if anyone is interested going deeper into this topic, check out that website.

Trying again to post article from Fellowshipofthemartyrs. Something to think about.

If Christians were going to manifest – make evident in the natural realm – they are Christ Incarnate, certain things would probably be common amongst them.
•They would no longer be slaves to sin. Like Jesus wasn't.
•They would be all the way dead to self and their own desires or wants. Like Jesus was.
•They would very clearly and accurately hear the voice of God in whatever way He wanted to speak to them and they would obey ALL the time – like Jesus did.
•They would love like Jesus did – even their enemies. Probably especially their enemies. A love that the world is thoroughly unfamiliar with – especially between Christians of all shapes.
•They would have authority to do some real damage to the forces of evil. Like Jesus did.
•They would not be conformed to this world – in fact they would be loose canons that the world would hate because they refused to “fit in”. Not just different – other-worldly. Like Jesus was.
•They would challenge everything and anything that “religion” tried to build or establish that wasn't purely of God. They would turn over the tables in the temples. They would know what was Man-made instantly because of their intimate, constant contact with God. Like Jesus did.
•They would be hated and persecuted and killed and tortured and boiled and crucified and quartered and maimed and stoned and anything else Man can think to do to make them knock it off. Like Jesus and the Apostles were. But nobody could kill them unless God said it was their time. Like with Jesus and the Apostles.
•They would have a MASSIVE amount of Fear of the Lord.
•They would have a MASSIVE amount of supernatural, unstoppable Faith.
•When they prayed, particularly together, things would probably happen. Sometimes really big, surprising things. Not because they are special or have a big anointing, so much as because they only pray what and when God tells them to and He already had something big planned. All they did was speak it forth when He said to. Like Jesus did.
•They would be the most gentle, most loving, most service-minded, most humble, most selfless, most sacrificial people you've ever seen. Like Jesus.
•They would have a Gift of Repentance. They would be the Ezekiel 9 remnant that's weeping for the sad state of things, even publicly and loudly.

Lily thank you for Gary's Top Ten Reasons Why he is not Christ Incarnate. If anyone dare. Ask Gary to explain. How is it that you are Christ in the Flesh? IMO Gary would evade the question. By saying. "Christ ministers his life to me in secret. Manifesting His anointing. Not the person of Jesus."

I was recently talking to someone and I was trying to describe the LW cult. I was trying to think of a more well-known cult the the LW is most similar too. Any suggestions? I came up with these two:

William Branham

The Branch Davidians


But maybe there’s a group that is more similar.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was recently talking to someone and I was trying
> to describe the LW cult. I was trying to think of
> a more well-known cult the the LW is most similar
> too. Any suggestions? I came up with these two:
>
> William Branham
>
> The Branch Davidians
>
>
> But maybe there’s a group that is more similar.

That's a very hard question, Puddington. It's such an eclectic little cult. Latter Rain, Messianic Jew, occult, shepherding/discipling movement, charismatic, push me-pull you with traditional holidays. Upside-down views of right and wrong. I would say that the LW is unique and that the head honcho (current and past) is making it up as he goes along. Oh, I forgot Catholic, apologies to the Pope. Maybe it should be the You Name It, We've Got It cult.

GoingRogue Wrote:
> I would say that the LW is unique and that the head
> honcho (current and past) is making it up as he
> goes along.

Yes--I think John used to refer to this approach as bringing a fresh living word, or new manna, or a new revelation. Keeps people off balance and needy.

Sheep thought: 'Gosh--I was doing what I thought God wanted yesterday, but today he's upset about something else. I must keep pressing in. Don't want to be left behind!'

Years later, exhaustion sets in and they are considered 'obsolete.'

@GoingRogue,
I think you're absolutely correct in that LW is unique. Being unique is actually a common part of many of these cult movements. Developing a shared language helps build unity, and the feeling that you're special. In this way, I'd compare LW to Mike Bickle's movement, International House of Prayer (IHOP). LW was even associated with them briefly in the 2000s, sending some "ambassadors" to pray with the movement and also with the likes of Todd Bentley and the Los Angeled Lakeland Revival. Gary and Marilyn actually attended a few of Bentley's services in Los Angeles at the height of his popularity before he got caught sleeping with his secretary. I can remember seeing them on television.


The IHOP movement reminds me of LW in that they have a commercial Public Relations wing that is very timid compared to their pastoral wing. IHOP has a very active Public Relations team that invites many evangelical movements to pray. However, pastors and youth leaders within IHOP are subjected to a much more rigorous lifestyle. Numerous 'offshoots' of IHOP have been identified as cults, and the church is quick to distance itself from any controversial youth leaders. Some point to the founder himself, Mike Bickle's, as a cult leader, responsible for all offshoots of IHOP. All IHOP pastors are required to memorize Mike Bickle's Prophetic History (PH), which has been amended numerous times since the 1980s due to prophesies and miracles that were disproven. Pastors are encouraged to submit to elders, live in communal homes, and they are discouraged from attending traditional colleges-- instead attending non-accredited IHOP "academies." The thought process is that college is unnecessary as "God is moving radically in the world and will soon bring miracles and true wisdom." Sound familiar?


LW structures itself in a similar way with PR ventures like the Christmas Truck, New Years parties, and the July Fireworks extravaganza. New members are discouraged from attending the School of Prophets or any services with prophesy. That all changes once a member is 'in the fold.' They are then highly encouraged to submit to church leaders and memorize JRS's own "Prophetic History."

Good article on IHOP:
[www.pitch.com]

Excellent info here. Thank you.

But shouldn’t it be “Pathetic History”? : )

Factoverfiction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
All IHOP pastors are required to memorize
> Mike Bickle's Prophetic History (PH), which has
> been amended numerous times since the 1980s due to
> prophesies and miracles that were disproven.
> Pastors are encouraged to submit to elders, live
> in communal homes, and they are discouraged from
> attending traditional colleges-- instead attending
> non-accredited IHOP "academies." The thought
> process is that college is unnecessary as "God is
> moving radically in the world and will soon bring
> miracles and true wisdom." Sound familiar?
>
Yes, Factoverfiction it sounds very familiar.

While the LW is in many ways unique, I think one unifying thread that runs through these Bible based cults (William Branham, Branch Davidians, and of course IHOP and Mike Bickle) is the idea that the authority of the leadership comes from hearing from God. Those loyal to JRS say he was unsurpassed at it. JRS once convinced me too. Someone here once posted that the Branch Davidians were so convinced that their leader heard from God, that they let their children have sex with their leader. Most in the LW probably think Gary would never cross that line. Yet Gary told the members that God once told him that he should divorce his wife Donna and remarry another woman in the church, Marilyn. Eventhough the scriptures that Gary cites as authority to set aside and set in elders (from Paul's writing in the NT), prohibits elders and pastors from divorce and disallows them from serving in that capacity forever even if there is repentance (again Paul's writings). Even though Gary crossed that line, divorced his wife to remarry another woman and if you believe the writings of Paul (as Gary does when it is convenient for him), Gary disobeyed God and he continues to serve as a pastor, and the members continue to believe Gary hears from God.

GoingRogue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> puddington Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > I was recently talking to someone and I was
> trying
> > to describe the LW cult. I was trying to think
> of
> > a more well-known cult the the LW is most
> similar
> > too. Any suggestions? I came up with these
> two:
> >
> > William Branham
> >
> > The Branch Davidians
> >
> >
> > But maybe there’s a group that is more similar.
>
> That's a very hard question, Puddington. It's such
> an eclectic little cult. Latter Rain, Messianic
> Jew, occult, shepherding/discipling movement,
> charismatic, push me-pull you with traditional
> holidays. Upside-down views of right and wrong. I
> would say that the LW is unique and that the head
> honcho (current and past) is making it up as he
> goes along. Oh, I forgot Catholic, apologies to
> the Pope. Maybe it should be the You Name It,
> We've Got It cult.

I don't think it's a hard question. At all. There are many similarities between the LW and other cults. And research shows. Those caught in a cult. Can often see similar aberrations in other cults. That they can't see. In their own cult. So making known the similarities. Can help. Thank you for the question, puddington and Factoverfiction and lily for sharing some similarities. One similarity I see. In the LW, Davidians, IHOP, Todd Bentley etc is all their prophecies so far have been duds.