Minor clarification of prior post.

The "L" in ISIL stands for Levant and refers to mapping of the middle east that has been redrawn again and again over many decades. The concern of the use of the term Levant is that Islam may think it validates their claim that Israel doesn't exist. The Obama admin continually tries to get Israel to give up land which seems to be a dismissal of the state of Israel. Something to watch unfold.

In my opinion the support of Israel by JRS was scriptural and a good thing.


On gays, I knew a young man at the LW who during ministry JRS asked him if he was gay. He said yes and was given the go ahead by JRS to work at the LW. A few years later the young man was in the inner circle at Shiloh and also serving as an assistant to Marilyn. I don't know what happened to him after G&M took over.

larry bobo Wrote:

A fresh look at the Jesus of the gospels
and putting into practice his teachings does heal.
For me, that meant going through many layers of
forgiveness until I received a heart that wanted
to do good to those who had done bad to me. Even
more important, I wanted to know Him more than my
own frailties or the frailties of others – He is
the only one that can make any of us whole anyway.

___________________________________________________________

My two favorite quotes on forgiveness are as follows:

"To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." C.S. Lewis

"It is easy to forgive when you are happy." Princess Diana of Wales

In response & in answer to some of the questions, to those who addressed my earlier post.

FCLSC

The writer of Ecclesiastes speaks of all that is futility - he points out using paradox - how all men live there life and how both the wicked and the righteous suffer the same fate alike - He writes about all that is futility and that there is nothing new under the sun but he concludes - that the whole of a man's life is to be reverent and obedient to God, for to Him at last one must give a full account.

I liked your run of thought and how you concluded things in your last post on the topic.
-------

We say we hope those who read us - will listen to us and seriously consider the things we write about. I opened my comment by saying It was not in opposition to what Pale Face was saying because if any one was reading P.F.'s post - they might hear and take the initiative to seek God about some of the things written here on the forum.

I heard and understood what P.F. was saying but the last sentence which stood alone and read ( I dare you to wake up ) colored the content of what P.F. wrote to TLWF. It made the content a confrontation. To me this one sentence - seemed to be mean spirited, It wasn't simply a dare it was written as a taunt. And I understand the weariness that comes from not getting the results, one wants to see happen.

I wrote about the caution I found in the Scriptures - I said ( I ) don't want to be a dog or to find out down the road that I have become like a dog . ( I did not call any one a dog. ) I wrote about a caution - which I had found in the Book of Revelations .

Yet there seemed to be an uproar at the thought of me - saying anything about being cautioned - a lot of growling and snarling seemed to be going on here, since I said. I do not want to become a dog or like a dog because of the caution I found written, And in finding this caution - I had been applying it first to myself before I brought it to your attention.

I think it is much easier for us to want others to hear us and to correct their thinking than it is for us to even consider , we ourselves might have need , to be corrected.

Lily Rose, a clarification but first an excellent comment in your last post. Forgiveness - we will all get there. Loved the comment.

I know you read my posts of what I originally wrote in the context of what I had written on the forum- but I did not say Jesus did not subject Himself to "any one." I have not found Him in any way to be a law unto Himself. I have only found in the Scriptures that He answered Himself to His God and Father. Luke 2:41-52

See how He subjected Himself to His parents - when they found Him in the temple with the teachers - where He was amazing them with both His questions and answers at the age of 12 , The out come of what was taking place- is - He went home with His parents and it says, He remained in subjection to them - and it says He continued to grow and wax strong in the Lord, finding favor both with God and men. He also told later during the years of His ministry that. the Father loved Him because He kept the Fathers Commandments and He also said if you love Me , you will keep My Commandments. I believe that when He went home with His parents He was Keeping the Commandment of God, to Honor His father and mother and because of His obedience to God, He was finding favor with God. I realized also in reading this story that just because He in reality was the only Begotten Son of God, that God did not give Him a free pass - - because the Scriptures says there is no partiality with God. This is the last thing written of Jesus and no further account of His life is made in the N.T. from the age of 12 years old - until he was 30 years old and entered His ministry.

I found Luke 2:41-52 back in the 1990's after I found Matthew 23:8 -10 - because I was looking to God to know His will, to know the truth about
the relationships that existed in the church and because of the things that were going on as a result of the ministry believing it had the right to separate family members from one another in the church if a member of a family was not given to allowing the ministry to control them and their lives, the ministry influenced some of the youth to turn their hearts away from a parent and the ministry began separating spouses from each other for their own religious purposes'. .

I knew that what was taking place was wrong but I did not know by the Word of the Lord in the Scriptures' - why it was wrong. And because I had stopped going to the church - I wanted to know if I was or was not in rebellion against God by not subjecting my own self, by not allowing the ministry to continue to run my life.

But I did say on the forum in former posts that - Jesus was not ( entrusting Himself ) to any man because He knew what was in man and that He said, " He had need of no one to tell Him for He knew what was in all men. " and I wrote about how He had said, that no man takes His life , He said, " I lay it down and I take it up, this " Commandment " , I received from My Father.

I also wrote that Jesus said that no one is good , but God alone, And that is a very difficult thing to accept about our self - even if it did come from the mouth of God's Son. But He did say of Himself , " I am the good shepherd. "

And today - you know how a man, if you let him by making yourself available to him, will take your life and use it for his own purposes , believing he has a right to use you, for what he believes serves God's purposes. I don't think this makes a man evil - but it is when a man persists in doing something that is wrong, when he knows what is right. It is when a man practices wrong in light of knowing what is right that he is in trouble.

And it was voiced to me in response to what I had written on the forum - that what I wrote was found to be liberating and to help free some of your hearts and minds from condemnation, by hearing these things I found in the Scriptures - but I understand that knowing, it is not enough to take away the bitter memory and the taste in one's mouth - of having lived one's life in spiritual bondage.

Even today 1000's of years later - during the Passover each year , the Jew's Passover meal consists of eating bitter herbs with the meal, they do this to cause them to never forget their years having lived in bondage but they also eat bitter herbs remembering to give thanks to God Himself, for having delivered them out of slavery and they have kept this Passover and meal - for generation to generation - to honor, to remember and to give thanks to God. telling of His glory and of all that God miraculously did for them, when He lead them out of Egypt...

And it took me many more years to find and receive enough of the truth - and with out these things that I found written in the Book , I would have continued to live my life with an incurable wound.

Thank you, Invisible.

I can feel your heart of integrity and I truly respect it. Everybody is vulnerable. It’s good to have each other’s back despite our shortcomings that can become regretful for all involved, especially during trying times of trench warfare.

Thanks Invisible.

I think because we had "submission" and more "submission" to church leaders on every little aspect of our lives shoved down our throats (and oftentimes they didn't have a clue about the mind of the Lord), entrusting oneself to the Word of God through the Bible becomes so meaningful.

Not only did Jesus speak about not entrusting himself to man because he knew what was in their hearts, the Apostle Paul also indirectly addressed this.

In Acts 20, the Apostle Paul anticipating his arrest and maybe knowing he would be killed, spoke to the elders of the Church of Ephesus what seemed to be a farewell (Acts 20:32), "And now brethren I entrust you to God and the Word of His Grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance..."

Paul did not entrust these elders to be under another Apostle such as Peter or another man or even for another church to be over them. Paul simply entrusted the church elders to God and God's Word. God's authority would be found in His Word. And eventually, God's authority was no longer expressed in the church through Apostles after each of them were killed. It's as if the Word of God, the Bible, replaced the Apostles.

I reread paleface's post (below), and found it reasonable and not offensive...given the subject he is addressing. Knowing the poster personally, I'm aware that he is not mean-spirited, and is motivated to help people that are trapped in situations that seem hopeless. I think his admonition to "wake up" (do independent research, don't swallow everything given to you etc.) came from that place.
And even if his attitude is not exemplary, remember it was John who said...well, something along the lines of..."if a rock is thrown at you, see if there is a message attached to it."


paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know that a lot of LW members lurk in this
> forum. They don’t post out of fear of getting
> into trouble with their pastors for engaging with
> us. I understand that too well.
>
> Here’s my message to you active LW members:
>
> I realize that the posts in this forum often
> create an instant reaction of defense and denial
> within you. I too, used to react that way when
> reading the FactNet posts.
> So you can discredit us in your mind if you like
> and say we are all bitter, angry “blow-outs”.
> Maybe you would like to tell us that we are in
> serious jeopardy for criticizing God’s elect.
> That’s OK too. See, we really don’t care,
> because we’ve learned many new things about our
> time at the Living Word and we have moved on. But
> we understand what you must be feeling. We’ve
> all been there.
>
> Here’s my suggestion to you. Don’t take what
> we say as true. Instead, do your own research. I
> recommend that you go find and read everything you
> can find about The Living Word and John Robert
> Stevens. It would be to your benefit to
> understand why most religious organizations and
> cult experts have labeled the Living Word as a
> “cult”. You should do that research on your
> own (independently) so you can fully understand
> and be better prepared to defend yourself when
> this accusation hits you (and it will). And maybe
> your research will help you re-evaluate the
> current progress in your own personal spiritual
> life.
>
> I dare you to wake up.

I think we can be loving and still have strong opinions and use strong language. Paleface once mentioned that reading Fact-net woke him up and if you have been there, on Fact-net, it could get really jagged.

In follow up to my previous post, I did some research on when the Catholic Church came into existence as they teach that their church was built on their rock Apostle Peter and that Peter was the first pope. Baloney, there is nothing in the Bible to confirm that. After all 12 apostles died, it seems it didn't take too long before men began creating institutional structures and ways to gain authority over Christians by instituting new roles such as bishops, priests, and eventually popes.

lily rose wrote:

“In follow up to my previous post, I did some research on when the Catholic Church came into existence as they teach that their church was built on their rock Apostle Peter and that Peter was the first pope. Baloney, there is nothing in the Bible to confirm that. After all 12 apostles died, it seems it didn't take too long before men began creating institutional structures and ways to gain authority over Christians by instituting new roles such as bishops, priests, and eventually popes.”

----------------------


The governing authorities had to come up with something. After all, born again Christians have free spirits that commune directly with the Most High Heavenly Father, as well as ascend, descend and romp about all the heavens with angels and other ministering spirits who are perfect.

Christians are hard to intimidate. Well, not the ones who are still trying to “Earn” their salvation by submission.

For many here, the Living Word Fellowship was a destructive experience.

I think it would be helpful if the people who've had the courage to try to share their experiences would not be lectured that they are vomiting, or that their "tone" is incorrect. Or that while the Living Word abused the Scriptures -- here are the right Scriptures that they must follow now.

I know some feel they've found the answer for sure now -- that's not so much different from what TLWF has maintained for 60 years now.

Yes, Saw Enough.
I think if people have to weigh everything they write in light of whether it will offend, rather than the message it is trying to convey, it will facilitate self-censorship, and likely dissuade new posters from wanting to participate. This forum will soon be lifeless. In TLWF the continuous admonition to "have a right spirit/check your spirit" was often used to suppress, so my inclination is to err on the side of freedom of expression. Now if someone is simply being nasty, and attacking just to be mean, that's a different matter.



Saw enough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For many here, the Living Word Fellowship was a
> destructive experience.
>
> I think it would be helpful if the people who've
> had the courage to try to share their experiences
> would not be lectured that they are vomiting, or
> that their "tone" is incorrect. Or that while the
> Living Word abused the Scriptures -- here are the
> right Scriptures that they must follow now.
>
> I know some feel they've found the answer for sure
> now -- that's not so much different from what TLWF
> has maintained for 60 years now.