paleface Wrote:
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I think one simple criteria to determine whether something is a cult, or has the potential to become a cult, is whether the leader(s) allow others to monitor their ministry. John was fiercely independent, even when preaching the need for the people to relinquish their individuality. To many people, including myself at the time, questioning John and challenging something he said or did would be considered apostasy...and it only got worse, much worse, under G & M.


> Also, it is interesting to note that some people
> (a few) feel that the LW was a sound and healthy
> branch of Christianity under John. These people
> feel that it didn't go off track until Gary &
> Marilyn took charge. So they will defend JRS and
> get upset when the "c" word is used. I'm
> convinced that the foundation laid by JRS already
> had flaws in it and unhealthy practices were
> already going on as early as the late 60's.

That said, if people here know of instances where John allowed himself to be corrected by other ministries (peers), please come forward. My exposure to his ministry was only seven years or so...limited.

Disclaimer: If you are skeptical about the existence of God you many not want to read this post.

Lately I have been thinking about the delusion God says he will send in the end times. It's interesting to me that just as the state of Israel was being formed in 1948-49 as part of the end time fulfillment mentioned in the scriptures, the Latter Rain movement began which I am inclined to believe was part of the delusion sent by God. I think during my time in the LW I was involved in that delusion. Speaking out about it and railing against it doesn't make me a dog. I also think that the delusion may be so pervasive that even the President of the United States, whom I like, cannot see the threat of ISIS as he still refers to them as ISIL. No, I didn't get this from Fox news. It's just something I have been thinking about.

p.s. Also thinking about changing my username to dog on a corner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2014 03:48AM by lily rose.

"The need for control and dominance must have some sort of psychological explanation; one of imbalance caused by abnormal beliefs, bad childhood experiences, illusions of grandeur, madness, revenge, jealousy, machoism and even demon possession.”

I’d say that’s a pretty good description of an old nature – something we all possess. The new nature wants to serve and lay down it's life. Even in Paul’s day there were already those who wanted to distort the gospel to serve their own purposes. In Galatians 6 he says, “6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"

I have come to believe that much of the “warfare” we experienced in TLWF was nothing more than the consequences of violating God’s commands – not Satan attacking us because we were so special. To assume we could live in immunity, protected by a false authority, while letting an old nature rage is foolishness. While we prophesied the destruction of those who were crossways with our “apostle”, we were creating our own cesspool to live in – or as some would say bad karma. There is a reason Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. We get to live in what we minister out.

I understand the period of vomiting and need to sort through all the pieces you expel. I wish I could say that time heals, but after hearing many stories from those who were wounded 20-30 years ago, those wounds are still very fresh. I think a good starting point for healing is to come to grips with the fact that TLWF is a different gospel and a different Christ – the evidence is in the fruit, which is what Jesus told us to examine. A fresh look at the Jesus of the gospels and putting into practice his teachings does heal. For me, that meant going through many layers of forgiveness until I received a heart that wanted to do good to those who had done bad to me. Even more important, I wanted to know Him more than my own frailties or the frailties of others – He is the only one that can make any of us whole anyway.

One topic I haven't read about in this forum is the treatment of gays in the walk. I had a friend that was kicked out and shunned when it was discovered that he was gay, over 30 years ago. Does anyone know if the walk became more tolerant? Are gay couples completely accepted now as they obviously should be? Do you suppose Gary and Marilyn would celebrate a same-sex marriage ceremony?

Let's not forget that Marilyn basically kicked her gay daughter out of the church.

I understand that Gary recently, in a service, reaffirmed their anti-gay position and that it was not going to be tollerated in TLWF churches.

paleface Wrote to TLWF:

Maybe you would like to tell us we are in serious jeopardy for criticizing God's elect.

changedagain Wrote:

I think one simple criteria to determine whether
something is a cult, or has the potential to
become a cult, is whether the leader(s) allow
others to monitor their ministry. John was
fiercely independent, even when preaching the need
for the people to relinquish their individuality.
To many people, including myself at the time,
questioning John and challenging something he said
or did would be considered apostasy...and it only
got worse, much worse, under G & M.


___________________________________________________________________
Yes I think it would be considered apostasy.

In the NT, the Apostles never told the people,"Don't question or challenge us," or "Don't speak against church leaders; we are the Lord's anointed." Instead the Apostles commended those who tested their teaching. Today's religious leaders like to use the term "Touch not my anointed," which refers to harming or killing, out of context as it does not mean a man of God cannot be corrected or held accountable for their teaching. The only way to test the teaching is to speak out and test the leaders by the Word. I agree with you, a cult does not allow their teaching to be challenged or tested.

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's not forget that Marilyn basically kicked her
> gay daughter out of the church.
>
> I understand that Gary recently, in a service,
> reaffirmed their anti-gay position and that it was
> not going to be tollerated in TLWF churches.


Thank you paleface, I wasn't aware of the drama of a gay daughter, I left pre Gary and Marilyn. If any current living word members can confirm or deny that the walk has an official anti-gay policy I would like to hear from them. So I take it the Lamp has two adult children. One is gay and the other is some sort of sexual predator, if that is not too strong of a term. And she prefers the predator. Wow.

LampShmamp Wrote:
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> So I take it the Lamp has two adult children. One is gay and the
> other is some sort of sexual predator, if that is
> not too strong of a term. And she prefers the
> predator. Wow.

I suppose the Lamp's attitude is an indication of how much God hates gays. I'm so relieved I was not born one...I mean, chose to be one!

And we all know that Marilyn's thinking is God's thinking. : )