JRS retained ownership rights during his lifetime. Gary & Marilyn are doing the same thing.

The great hallmark and lofty standard proclaimed is: “The acceptance of the authority of Jesus in all my life.” ---yet--- these ownership rights are still on the books; perfectly legal.

larry bobo wrote: “It’s always fascinated me how the leaders of these various groups that hand out “words from God” will never submit to each other. I think they secretly know how much they are not words from God but rather just a good feeling they have about something”.

That good feeling could be “Say So Rights.”

The poor sheep in these groups always have the tougher road to hoe. Sheep have no “Say So Rights;” how unhealthy is that?

Sheep’s Battle Cry #1-------“No equal footing, No submission.”

Sheep’s Battle Cry #2-------“No equal footing, Why should I listen to you??

This is one of the reasons I believe we were unable to clearly know the difference between what is right and what is wrong. Why when we saw our members being mistreated or wronged that we were unable to clearly recognize these things as being wrong. Even as to why we would make in our thinking - those things that are wrong into being what was right.

Isaiah the prophet spoke concerning those who make what is wrong into be what is right. Those who make what is right into being wrong. So this is not a new thing that men may do. See Isaiah 5:20

I believe that Jesus was addressing the same kind of thinking when He cited the " ministry " of the Scribes and the Pharisees in Mark 7 : 6-13.
Citing them for teaching as doctrine the precepts of men.
________

Mark 7: 6- 8
And He said to them,: Rightly did Isaiah prophecy of you hypocrites, as it is written
This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me.
But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrine the precepts of men. Neglecting the Commandment of God , you hold to the tradition of men.

Mark: 7: 9-13
He was also saying to them, "You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. For Moses said ,"Honor Your Father and your Mother and He Who Speaks Evil Of Father Or Mother, Let Him Be Put To Death, But you say , If a man says to his father or mother any thing of mine you might have been helped by is Corban ( that is to say, given to God) you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down, and you do many such things as this.
________

Jesus cited the ministry about how a son was being required by the ministry to turn his heart away from his father or mother in order to fulfill the commitment that the son had made to give something to God. Giving what the son had vowed to give God as his offering was taught as being what was most important, more important than the relationship the son had with his parents. Jesus said to the ministry ," and you do many such things as this." So this requirement was affecting many other areas because of how men were being required by the ministry to live their lives - so it was not just affecting the relationships between a son and his parents.

This was a traditional way that was set up for the people to live by - in order for the people to honor their commitments to God.

The adherence to this form of thinking in serving God has also become a Traditional way of having to live one's life, as a member of TLWF. And it affects many areas of the relationships between people - not just between a son and his father or mother or those who are married.

So you can see that this is one way that people are led to think and to make what is wrong into being right and what is right into being wrong.
The Word Of God is made invalid when the commandment of God is set aside. This is why the people have difficulty in recognizing God's Word.
Jesus said to the ministry that they were Teaching as Doctrines the Precepts of men - in doing this because they were neglecting and nicely setting aside the commandment of God in order to live according to their traditions. .

The ministry of TLWF like the Scribes and the Pharisees have been teaching and subjecting their members to the same kind of thinking and form of service in their worship of God because they have made divorcing one's spouse out to themselves as being acceptable - in order for their members to live their lives giving themselves wholly to serving God - they also set aside, the ( commandment of God - Matthew 19:6 " So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." ) they set aside the commandment of God , with the idea that this is what the members must do in order to keep the commitment they have made to give themselves wholly to serving God, as members of the church.

Serving God is what is held fast to by the members - as being what is to be most important and more important than their relationships with one another.

This is why the members of TLWF do not recognize when they are doing wrong. Because they also have been taught as doctrine the precepts of men as to what they must do in order to give themselves and their lives, to wholly serving God.

How to get rich: Start a church; proclaim absolute submission and surrender to God; secretly retain ownership rights---(dumb sheep pay no mind anyway) and………Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching.

I am wiser now. Knock on wood.

Invisible;

There are some basic ways that all cults and cult leaders operate, whether they are religious or not about religion at all.

See [www.culteducation.com]

There are also some basic "warning signs" to watch for when becoming involved with a particular groups or leader.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Unscrupulous and controlling leaers may manipulate the scriptures to excuse their behavior and control people, but by watching for the warning signs you can see a consistent pattern regardless of what the leader uses for his or her vehicle for control.

rrmoderator and others,
Thanks for the great links. I've read similar things in the past, but this is a great refresher. Those that have been involved in TLWF will find very few points that do not apply to that group. I hope that those that are still in TLWF and are monitoring this site will take a few minutes and read through both links with a little honest introspection. The deception is that every group is like this and they all have similar problems. It's simply not true. There is a demonic oppression in TLWF that we were never meant to live under that has been caused by disobedience to God's word - not Satan trying to stop what God is doing as we have been told. The real God does not limp around weak in defeat at the least little thing the enemy does. I think you will find it a whole new way of living when you refuse to let a human take the place of God as He has clearly told you to do in His word. There really is wonderful freedom in Christ that we can experience today.

Dear Invisible,

jhorning wrote on 12/18/13: “Given enough time the things that are not from the Father eventually fade away.”

----------------

I hope you live long enough to see all your real/true family relationships completely restored; and if not, in the next better place.

See [www.culteducation.com]

There are also some basic "warning signs" to watch for when becoming involved with a particular groups or leader.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Unscrupulous and controlling leaers may manipulate the scriptures to excuse their behavior and control people, but by watching for the warning signs you can see a consistent pattern regardless of what the leader uses for his or her vehicle for control.
-------------

Thank you Moderator.

For the 2 links,

Good reading material on the nature of a cult and how it works and the signs to look for to know if your involved in a destructive cult, or destructive relationships of any kind.
--------------

And Thank You FCLSC.
For your kind thoughts and words of hope, I hope to live a long time and that everything will work out for you too. Keep on keeping on ! : )

When Gary and Marilyn announced their engagement at the end of the service, Marilyn came up to me after the announcement looking to me to congratulate her and it just slipped out of my mouth that I was really shocked to hear , her eyes widened and narrowed and she gracefully slipped away from me looking for grats from many of the others. I saw that I had offended her and I believe this was the beginning of where she wrote in the book of her mind, that I was an enemy, because she was looking for complete support for herself from me.

At that time she was not in control of the members or their lives - that would come later.

Truthfully my shock was no more than that, I had no conscious opinion for or against that she and Gary were planning to marry. I had been trained not to think or have an opinion toward thinking badly of other people in the church or to negatively criticize the ministry . Which may have helped preserve me through all the things that I would later experience my self, that is I did not take a position to condemn some one personally because I did not agree with what they chose to do.

What I did have difficulty with - was relating to Donna, Gary's wife who came up to me in the parking lot after a service. She drew near me and I saw how she was suffering. Not only suffering from her husband divorcing her but she had a new baby in her arms and I think she was present for the announcement of her husbands engagement to Marilyn ? Whether or not present - when I saw her - she was suffering from the humiliation and probably feeling all the things a woman feels when left by her husband and the father of her child while still being a member of the church which she continued to remain for some time - and what could she say, she said nothing against any one to me. It was against our thinking.to voice such things to one another. It was terrible and I felt the grievousness' of it, but what kept me from really relating to her in her suffering ( was my soul was bound ) , the majority of every one was living even then by an idea that there was nothing more important than the ministry and many of the ethereal things we were living for.

So whether such a thing happened to myself or another member - I was of the mind - at that time - that IF it should have happened to me - my mind would have made the best of it, I would have turned something terrible into being good not for some one else but for myself - I would have made what was bitter and sorrowful into being sweet. As being what was necessary to live for God by discounting the well being of my own self for the greater good. That is where my mind was at that time but later and after many more experiences, my thinking was beginning to change.

Isaiah 5:20...Woe to those who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

And years later after I got my own bearings in life , when I tried to reach my own family members about the error of thinking that was held and tried to explain to them what I had experienced and what was done to myself - they couldn't dare listen to me or hear me and they voiced to me that I was just bitter and what could they do, but think of what I was trying to tell them as being no more than me persecuting the church. And I understood their thinking and where they were coming from and I understood why they could not hear me or understand what I was saying to them.

While some things may be changing in the church - what needs to change hasn't really changed yet. The root of the same kind of thinking is still collectively governing their minds because today when they marry in the church, the ministry still voices to the couple as they are marrying them , that their giving of them selves to serving God is to be what is most important. The ministry is still defining the purpose of what the couple's life is to be about in marrying them , and the way they emphasize how the couple is to live to serve God, makes serving God out to be what is to be most important and more important to the couple, than their relationship with one another as husband and wife.

So should it be determined at some time by the ministry that one of the spouses is not serving by the standard they have set up for the people to live by in serving and worshipping God , as members of the church - they also may find their relationship as husband and wife being brought to ruin. And IF IT DOES happen to them, it's usually too late to stop what is set in motion, once it is turned loose on them and in their life.

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I did have difficulty with - was relating to
> Donna, Gary's wife who came up to me in the
> parking lot after a service. She drew near me and
> I saw how she was suffering. Not only suffering
> from her husband divorcing her but she had a new
> baby in her arms and I think she was present for
> the announcement of her husbands engagement to
> Marilyn ? Whether or not present - when I saw her
> - she was suffering from the humiliation and
> probably feeling all the things a woman feels when
> left by her husband and the father of her child
> while still being a member of the church which
> she continued to remain for some time - and what
> could she say, she said nothing against any one to
> me.

Donna was sweet, bubbly and loyal--too good for what was to take place in the fellowship. Like you, I witnessed first-hand her devastation at being replaced by Marilyn, and also made no attempt to address it...since I too was conditioned by the necessity of supporting leadership, no matter how strange and cruel their behavior seemed to be. I also was present in a room of shepherds sometime after Gary and Marilyn married when Gary informed us in a phone call that he and Marilyn had a witness that his daughter not be a part of their lives. Actually, it started off by him telling us what he and Marilyn were thinking...and then asking our for our witness, which of course, echoed what he had said.
What terrible days they were...

Invisible

Your last post is great. The more I learn about what has taken place, the more solidified my feelings become about being gone!

My initial reaction to your last post was, “If I could talk to some university professor in the field of insect behavior, he/she could identify what you described as being such and such, perhaps bee hives, ant hills, or termite colonies."

Existence is so diverse; my choice is to live in freedom, wonder, learning, experiencing, doing my own thing, fun, sharing and so on. "Serving God" and "The Will of God” hasn’t been on my radar for years, yet I feel more connected to divinity than ever before; unexplainable!!!