Thanks for the link Corboy...I'll be sure to check it out. To me the greatest example of a teacher was Bruce Lee. He always insisted that a teacher is not the way, but a pointer of the way, a catalyst for change. All of his writings emphasise this point often and even if you're not interested in martial arts, well worth a read.

Quote
Beyond & Deeper
Just to let you know that my access at the Anthony Robins Forum has been denied. They also have blocked all my private messages and therefore cannot read them.

If anyone of you (PowerGiant, Matthew, Lilly, Manta Ray, KA Ross) and many others wish to contact me, please post here or send me directly a message to my personal E-mail address : g.zaugg@freesurf.ch

Thanks for your support and warm regards to all.


Beyond & Deeper


P.S. I still havent' received any call or e-mail from the Head of the Coaching Department whose name I still don't know. I shall wait one more week before taking action. I'm afraid that what I have been reading in this Forum becomes increasingly true as I proceed. The methods they use is just the same as those practiced in a sect! Is there any institution in the USA that deals with this kind of abuse and fights to reveal the manipulations behind it all ?

Beyond & Deeper ..... I've said this more than once or twice at the TR posing boards, but ....
have you called the RRI offices and just asked for Charlottes name? You don't have to call and amnnounce who you are. Just call the internatioal number yuou have, or 858-535-9900, and ask to "speak with the head of the Coaching Dept, Charlotte ... oh, I've forgotten ..... what's her last name again? Thanks!" If she's not in, you should get her voice mail.
It's not that hard to get a little information like this. But if you call and are irrate and demanding, well, guess what? Of course you will get a run-around, especially from a laywer!

Mozart, this is my last comment on this.

This thread is about the potential side-effects of Tony Robbins seminars. Its not about "Coz", self-help in general, or even Tony's "stories", except in the general sense. (you'll have to research the Castle-Divorce and other "stories" yourself, and draw your own conclusions).

This forum is not about effective forms of "personal development".
But I have made a few comments about Recovery in that specific thread area.

This is a "Cult Education Forum".

This thread is about Tony Robbins seminars, and his techniques, and their potential side-effects.

I think its very valuable, and a useful tool for learning.

So that's it on those issues. You have my answer. I am moving off those subjects.

If you want to discuss "effective personal development", this is not really the right place for it. Except perhaps in the "Recovery" area of the forum.

Coz

Manta, so you sent him a message with a name?
Do you represent Robbins company?
Can you get him a partial refund?
Can you call up your contacts and advocate on his behalf?
Have you complained to your buddies on the Robbins board that they BANNED him from the board?

Look, the guy has told us they have NOT CALLED HIM.
They deleted his complaints.
They banned him from the board.
They have his money.
He's tried everything.

B&D is not at fault here.

His claim is that he got poor service from a Robbins coach.

And the Robbins webboard is at fault for deleting his posts, and blocking him from posting, and blocking his PM's!

Instead of writing B&D, please write whoever is in charge of that coaching dept and tell them to give him a refund!

This is not about an "audience".
Its about analyzing what is going on with the subject of this thread.

Coz

Quote
MantaRayz

I believe someone sent you that name about 10 days ago! Did you not get it?

Quote

Coz .... I would think you know better than to believe I would just jump into something without some knowledge of the same.

Why do I believe that a message was sent? Well, take an educated guess!

I've got no problwem with your posts. They tend to be heavy on the verbosity, and drag on and on, post after post, but you are obviously enjoying your audience here.

Best Wishes, B&D

A lawyer utilizing the various NLP techniques could be more persuasive and manipulative than a sales person.

Getting the run around from the head of AR coaching/customer service... hum..... Why do I not find that surprising?

Great references, corboy....like has been said...."this is not about Coz"

He has not been banned...someone has put up a thread in the "lounge" area of that forum...so far he is being denied access to his PM's and his posts are being "moderated" which means apparently they go into queue and once approved are posted. Which is exactly what happens here 8)

Still a shame you won't share your ideas on personal development Coz or back up several of your comments. You obviously enjoy your audience here too much with your lengthy, verbiose posts to see where you might contribute to some positive growth. But thanks for listening and replying anyways...have a nice day :)

Quote
corboy
Think about it: if Tony creates a really great brand of toilet paper (lasts long, easy to use, wont clog the toilet, not too flimsy not too rough) he will actuallly make a positive contribution to society and have a guaranteed steady income.

If he stays in the enema business, he's at risk of a liability lawsuit if someone gets a colon rupture or some other catastrophe.

I have not seen the contracts with my own eyes but I would guess that they would have VERY extensive total releases from all liability before any of these "health retreats". I would ass-ume a team of lawyers would go over that stuff to the nth degree.

On a lighter note, don't be too surprised if you see some Tony Robbins biodegradable and Biomagnetic Aura Healing super-expensive branded Deluxe toilet paper someday! He is supposedly coming out with a bunch of new "health products" soon.

For example, he endorses the Qlink, which is in my opinion, a total scamola, and a Placebo at the very best. www.clarus.com/

This is Robbins ENDORSEMENT of the Qlink that was posted on the Qlink website)[/color:feda58c570]
Anthony Robbins
America's Results Coach and Author of Awaken the Giant Within
" As a speaker, I’m often onstage for 12 hours or more a day. Almost 7 years ago, Dr. Herb Ross found that the extreme low frequency waves (EMF) emitted by my wireless headset were creating a physical weakness in my body. When I began utilizing the QLink, I noticed an immediate recovery in my muscle strength & a counteracting of the negative effects from the headsets low frequency waves. Scientific research has shown that the QLink makes a significant difference in reducing the impact of these harmful low frequency waves. I have certainly benefited from the QLink."

---------------
James Randi, the worlds most renowned Skeptic/Debunker has drawn his conclusion about the Qlink.
Randi states:
"I hardly think that Tony Robbins has been "misled." He's smart enough to know that his nonsense about the mind controlling the human body so that the fire-walk is possible, is fictional. I'm sure he also knows that this Qlink thing is just another piece of quackery. That's Michael's notion, that Robbins doesn't know; I think he does."

-------------------
In a recent NYT article about Robbins move into the "health business", they list some of his new potential products. Look at this in light of what is being said about him here...[/color:feda58c570]

(excerpts from the NY Times) [Coz's comments in brackets][/color:feda58c570]

The Guru of Product Potential
By BETSY STREISAND

If it seems the world can't get enough of Anthony Robbins, the high priest of human potential, the feeling is mutual. Although he has built an empowerment empire estimated to be worth at least $80 million by selling nothing but himself, Mr. Robbins is no longer content just to influence the emotional and financial lives of his devotees.

"My driving force is to create a deep impact," he said last week during a phone conversation from Fiji between seminar sessions for business leaders. "I want to change the quality of people's lives." To that end, he aims to be in his followers' kitchen cupboards, medicine chests and gym bags, as well as their heads, coaching them to peak performance, 24/7.

Mr. Robbins and other titans in the field may preach self-reliance, but the self-help industry thrives on repeat business. That means selling the faithful a steady stream of products and services that promise to teach them to take control of their lives and to realize their full potential.
-----
But no one is going after the much larger business known as "wellness," a broad term for the multibillion-dollar arena that includes things like vitamins and Pilates exercises, with quite the fervor of Mr. Robbins.

"I want to own it," Mr. Robbins said. [Yes You Can Do It Tony!!! ...Coz][/color:feda58c570]

Mr. Robbins, 43, is positioning himself to be right there with the goods. He is a principal and a vice chairman of IdeaSphere Inc., which manufactures natural and organic food and health products. IdeaSphere also has a controlling stake in Rebus Publishing, which prints health newsletters for Johns Hopkins University and the University of California at Berkeley.

Next month, according to Mr. Robbins, the company is set to join forces with one of the nation's largest athletic shoe and apparel makers, as well as a national chain of health food stores. He declined to identify the companies.

The sports deal will involve products including athletic wear, energy drinks and motivational tools, like what Mr. Robbins calls a "digital life trainer," an MP3 player that arrives loaded with a 30-day supply of life-changing motivation, he said.

["life-changing motivation" eh Tony? nudge nudge :wink: :wink: ...sayeth Coz][/color:feda58c570]

The partnership will also be used to promote Mr. Robbins's personal development book, "Emotional Fitness," due in April, as well as "Pure Energy," also to be published in 2004. Mr. Robbins said the health food chain would sell Idea- Sphere's nutritional supplements and nutraceuticals, which are foods or drinks with added vitamins, herbs or nutrients. [more Food Control for profit...Coz][/color:feda58c570]

"Consumers are looking for a partner, someone they can trust to tell them what to do on a daily basis," said Mark A. Fox, the president of IdeaSphere. "Tony is here to make the emotional connection between the consumer and those products."

["someone they can TRUST to TELL them what to DO on a DAILY basis", eh? Interesting...Coz][/color:feda58c570]

And nobody does emotion quite like Mr. Robbins, who stands 6 feet 7 inches tall and routinely takes the stage for hours at a time during his seminars, stirring up a motivational frenzy and reducing crowds of thousands to tears one minute and laughter the next.

"You've got to train your mind, your body and your emotions," Mr. Robbins said in an interview, using his characteristic mile-a-minute motivational speaking style. "Most people who are committed to making their life better may train their body, and diet and exercise, but they aren't happy. They have a two-legged stool. I'm going to give them the third: emotional fitness."

[Oh really Tony? And what makes you so qualified to "help" people with their "Emotions"? Why does your "advice" directly conflict with the state of the art scientific knowledge in Cognitive Therapy, which has been tested in hundreds of scientific studies, whereas you seem to have ZERO scientific studies, and just Salespitches? Where's the science? (if there is any, lets see it) ...Coz][/color:feda58c570]

His growing arsenal of products makes it clear that he considers helping people pursue happiness to be a full-time job. And if he pulls off all the deals he says he has in the works, he will be with his followers every step of the way. Here is a possible day in an all-Tony, all-the-time life: [she got it right here! ALL TONY ALL THE TIME for LIFE!!!][/color:feda58c570]

• You wake up, put on your athletic shoes — the ones soon to be available with Mr. Robbins's endorsement — and fire up your MP3 player preloaded with Mr. Robbins's motivational programs. [he gets to you in the morning when you are MOST SUGGESTIBLE. Nice touch.][/color:feda58c570]

• Are you thirsty? He has an energy drink with your name on it (and probably his name, too). Hungry? Try the energy bar. Then pop a day's worth of vitamins and supplements, courtesy of Twinlab, before heading to work. [you shall eat and drink of the Food of Tony, He is the WholeBread of Life...Coz][/color:feda58c570]
On the way, slip a Robbins disc — "Hour of Power" if it's a long commute, "Fifteen Minutes to Fulfillment" if it's not — into the CD player to prepare you for a day of reaching your maximum potential. [yes, listen to Tony, EVERYDAY. EVERYDAY. EVERYDAY...it only takes a few minutes a day to get brainwash...sorry...I mean "motivated"...Coz][/color:feda58c570]

• When you arrive at the office, manage your time with the Robbins R.P.M. (Rapid Planning Method), conveniently downloaded into your hand-held computer. If you are having problems with a co-worker, refer quickly to Mr. Robbins's "Emotional Fitness," which reminds you that no one "comes to work intending to screw up" and tells you "to take a more understanding approach to the problem." [Yes Guru Master, you shall show me how to control every minute of the day, my Guru, and handle all of my interpersonal issues for me too, as i am but a stupid human with no brain of my own to think. You are my Leader, oh Guru of All Things...Coz}[/color:feda58c570]

• For lunch, you can enjoy a Pure Energy protein drink. Afterward, you can have a quick conversation with your personal coach. (An hour a week with Mr. Robbins will run you $1 million a year, but there are several less-expensive options in the Yellow Pages.) [Yes, we see how WONDERFUL Tony's coaches are in this forum NOT! And at $300-$500 an hour??? Remember, don't sign those contracts folks before you see a lawyer!! :lol: Coz][/color:feda58c570]

And when you call it a day, get back in your car, pop in the disc on "The Power of Relationships" and prepare to greet your ideal mate, open to possibility.
[Yes, Tony will teach you everything about finding your "Ideal Mate". He found his at one of his seminars! :D Its easy! You see, even though Tony has no accreditation in this field i am aware of, (if I'm wrong please let me know) and recently left his long-time wife, with lots of juicy J-Lo style "stories", :wink: he will teach you everything about it! Wait a sec, I am going to call up J-Lo for some marriage advice right now!][/color:feda58c570]

--------------
This NYT article pointed to a lot of interesting things, eh?
Actually, I think I have answered my own WHY question from before. I am surprising myself here!

WHY is he doing it?
This NYT article tells you his plan.

To be the Leader of a massive "group" of Robbins Groupies who eat, drink, pee, sleep, crap, "Think", talk, write, plan their day, dress, "feel", and everything else like their SuperGuru, Tony Robbins, while they obsessively listen to his "brainwashi" oh... sorry...i mean MOTIVATION, on CD's 24/7.

Its a Tony Robbins Dystopia folks!!! :shock:
Robbins Robots to the Rescue!

And some of you thought i was pulling this stuff out of my Robbins Enema Bag. (REB)
Can you feel the love behind it all?

Can anyone spell "Hubris meets Nemesis"?
The myth of Narcissus, anyone?

Is this not the masterplan for a White-collar "cultish group" of the highest order? It grosses me out! Gag me with a non-Robbins brand spoon!

Recently a fawning "book" was written called "Thank You Tony Robbins".
Well, I'll close with this.

NO THANK YOU TONY ROBBINS!
[/color:feda58c570]

Coz

Look, B&D is being stonewalled, and treated terribly by the Robbins company, and they don't want the bad PR which exposes what really goes on behind the scenes on a daily basis.

Ya gotta keep that stuff quiet! Make sure the dissatisfied customers are atomized and alone, docile, ashamed, self-downing.

One of the "coaches" on that site seems to basically "blame the victim", ignore the facts, avoid the issues, and criticizes clients for "not being coachable". (think about that word..."coachable").

Also, why didn't the actual coach respond to him?
Can you just see the manipulation in this post?
And the passing of the buck?
And the Robbins Newspeak? Yuck.
[www.tonyrobbins.com]

Also, nice try to bait me, (again!) but I will back up all of my comments, especially about "personal development", but not in this thread, and only in the thread about "recovery" if appropriate.
[board.culteducation.com]

Again, you are trying to deflect me and the thread off-topic, and the topic is the side-effects of Robbins seminars, and Robbins in general.

Lastly, your language patterns below are identical in the sentence below to another new recent poster.

Just stick to the topic of the thread please.
Robbins and the side-effects, and main-effects of his seminars.
If you personally love attending his seminars and giving him your mind/money, then keep posting away on the Robbins board for thousands of posts for many years to come!
If you come back at me with another post about "Coz" or something unrelated, then I will simply ignore you for good.

{Here is some RobbinsNewSpeak for y'all}
Thanks for choosing to "add value", being more "accountable", "holding yourself to a higher standard" and for being more "coachable" in dealing with these "customer financial challenges" for those of us who are neither employees or "major fans" of Tony Robbins.

Its great when people are "coachable", eh?
(choose to let go, trust him, and submit to his persuasive powers...now...its ok...stop thinking critically...just let go...it feels good now....)

CANI = Constant and Never Ending Influence.

Coz

Quote
Mozart
You obviously enjoy your audience here too much with your lengthy, verbiose posts

Well, imagine that.
They have now even deleted the link from Robbins forum to this forum! (they have also deleted a number of other posts as well)

[www.tonyrobbins.com]

You see, Independent Free Thinking is VERY dangerous to Super-salespeople.
People who think for themselves, stand up for themselves, who ask tough questions, who take their contracts to their lawyers, who don't sign contracts at seminars or in front of salespeople, who think critically about the Sales process, are very difficult sales prospects!
They are not even worth the effort.

They could cost these salespeople thousands of easy-earned dollars in sales commissions.

Information and "spin" must be totally controlled. You need a closed loop.
Ideas like the ones I and others have put forward are very "dangerous thoughts".

ALL customer complaints must be blocked, while publicly claiming you want to hear all customer criticism. (George Orwell could have thought of that one.)

You want to "atomize" and then bombard your sales prospects with "endless spin" about the Guru, so they lose track of their own critical faculties. You want minds that are "coachable" and pliable, easy to Influence.

Reading ideas like this must not be allowed.
It MUST be blocked, censored, expunged from consciousness.

The truth has power, and the truth might set you free.
Anyone who doubts what has been said here in the broadest strokes, should perhaps consider taking another look at things.

What is being run is a total system of "Thought Reform". This is why Thoughts that are Unthinkable, must be expunged from reality.
They don't exist.
Block them out.

People MUST not learn about LGAT's.
That ruins the entire game.
This type of knowledge could cost a lot of easy-earned money. This could spoil the entire Schtick.

Knowledge is Power, and some people want to hold all the power to themselves, and we all know the maxim that power corrupts.

Coz
--------------
Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely

An observation that a person’s sense of morality lessens as his or her power increases. The statement was made by Lord Acton, a British historian of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.