Mozart, this is not about "Coz".
This thread is about the reported negative side-effects of Tony Robbins seminars. If you want to talk about how "great" Robbins is, then you know where to do it!!
Your phrase "baby victims" betrays you! :wink:
The point here is COERCIVE PERSUASION. The points I am making are meant to get people to take responsibility for their minds, and get away from Tony Robbins, and all of the other Gurus like him. (if they want to, and I suggest they do).
Even Robbins says he is not their Guru, and if you don't like what he is saying, to throw it out. Good! In this case listen to Tony! Through it out, move on, and get away from him.
As far as Robbins initial "stories" around his castle and "stories" around his divorce, they are not the real issue. The issue is about where are the FACTS to back up all of his countless stories? Stories mean nothing to me. Show me the facts.
As Carl Sagan said, "EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE".
Where's the evidence of all these claims of his?
I am not grinding an axe against Robbins, I am speaking my personal views of him and his work.
MOST of his psychological techniques are NOT helpful, in my opinion.
I can't go into the entire explanation here, but his idea of making things MUSTS actually has been shown to create psychological disturbance in people.
For example, he gets you to brainstorm out all of your life goals, your Dreamlife, "like a little child".
Then he tells you to "raise your standards" and "demand more from yourself than anyone else could ever expect" and to "turn your shoulds into MUSTS". (etc)
Why does he say this?
To make you more successful?
I don't think so!
Its step #2 of the sales process.
FIND THE CUSTOMERS PAIN, AND STIR UP THEIR PAIN, AND MAKE IT EVEN WORSE
then step #3
HEAL THEM WITH YOUR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES
Its done to work people into a frenzy so they will put their money down and buy more stuff.
I know that Robbins "believers" cannot/will not understand that, but the evidence shows its true. Look at the work of Dr Albert Ellis and CBT, who explain Musturbation and how it is at the core or emotional disturbance. (Remember Tony telling you its "good" to "get disturbed"? hmmm?)
Also, the way Robbins deals with human change is is not credible.
He claims he can change people IN ONE SESSION.
He claims he healed a woman with multiple personalities in ONE SESSION in a few minutes at a seminar. Where are her psychiatric records, before and after from her psychiatrist?
Where is a signed statement from her psychiatrist?
I have seen no evidence for the validity of this "story".
Is this another "story" to try and impress people who know nothing about psychological disorders?
He claims he can CHANGE PEOPLE fast and forever.
They go to his seminar, and then they yell,
I AM A NEW MAN!!
I CAN DO ANYTHING!
GOD WANTS ME TO BE RICH!!
I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD!!
Well, guess what.
A few weeks/months later all of their "stuff" comes back, and people can get severely depressed.
His ideas about Belief change are flawed as well.
Here's the bottom line. He claims he can change people QUICKLY.
Its a Sales Method.
MAKE A BIG FAT CLAIM.
So then you can charge a bit fat fee. A FORTUNE.
This is not how people change. Personality Modification is a LONG-TERM project, and is subtle.
People make these BIG CLAIMS so they can CHARGE BIG FEES.
No respectable mental health professional would make his claims, if they did they would lose their license.
The point I am making is that there is a lot of manipulation going on, lots of 'stories" and few facts, and lots of hardball salesmanship on vulnerable people.
These techniques mess with peoples minds on the deepest level.
There are two separate issue's here.
-Self-help techniques Robbins "teaches". (most of these are not original and have been changed for the worse to suit his purposes)
-Unconscious Influence: this is the REAL issue and as i see it, is about 80% of what he is doing to people without their knowledge.
Sometimes it takes people 5-10 years to figure out what has been done to them. Most just BLAME THEMSELVES for failing, and then walk away, or move onto the next Guru, never thinking the Guru is the one who is full of beans.
Those who "believe" in Robbins will not be swayed by my views. The Beliefs are installed too deeply in them.
But I am encouraging people to THINK CRITICALLY about Robbins and his techniques.
When Robbins tells you in his audio that "skeptics" are "afraid", tell him to "get stuffed"!!
Any guy who is going to pitch 20 products to you in his tape program, who then tells you to "not be skeptical" has a lot of "nerve", to put it politely.
Analyze everything he is doing, study LGAT's, study "Thought Reform", study Unconscious Influence, and you will see what is going on eventually.
Don't "give yourself over to him" at his seminars.
One day you might regret it.
These deep techniques of mass-hypnosis and deep unconscious influence are terribly powerful. As powerful as they get in this world.
2. Shock horror, yes Tony is a salesman. Show me an honest salesman and I'll show you a liar. A general statement sure, but based on my personal experience.
We can't baby victims forever Coz. Otherwise they never learn from their mistakes or to take responsibility for their lives and it becomes convenient for them to blame others for their mistakes in life.
You have also said that you learned a lot of techniques from Tony. Are these the same ones? What are your criteria for judging the use and effectiveness of NLP techniques?
Also you said there are many different roads to self improvement...name one!!! You come over like a guy only with an axe to grind Coz and that's fine you're quite entitled to grind that axe in my humble opinion but I also believe there is a lot more to you than that...sometimes your desire to enlighten others about LGAT's and the Robbins' of this world makes you look very one dimensional in your thinking which I don't believe for one minute is what you're all about. Why not have a different forum on this website specifically for self improvement/NLP techniques you can abide with or that you believe really do help people and are safe from a psychological point of view??
I also have friends who cannot afford to but still went ahead and borrowed five grand so they could go on vacation for two weeks to somewhere exotic. Dodgy salespeople are not just limited to LGAT's...just go to your nearest travel agents 8)