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JVSnoodle
Some of what you're saying is pretty valid, like the pushy sales techniques and the marketing of the products and all that... but from my experience TR seminars don't have people submitting to mind control, behavior control, food control, etc. I didn't feel controlled by any of it.

hi there Snoodle, hey, its just my opinion, and like i said, many people say they "love" his stuff, and love to pay him big money, so...whatever, as long as people feel good handing over $65,000.00 a year for the "Platinum Partnership", and many thousands for the other seminars...it ain't for me.

But what i meant more specifically is -

Mind Control - for example, the 10 Day Mental Challenge. Where you try NOT to have a negative thought for 10 days, and if you do, then you have to start all over again. I find this to be obsessive to the extreme, and frankly impossible, and setting the person up for failure. This is one of many such obsessive Thought oriented techniques he uses.

Language Control - Doublespeak stuff, calling Problems-Challenges, and all that stuff. Its gets totally obsessive, and becomes a type of private language in his Groups.

Behavior-Mood Control - obsessing about ones moods, and trying to have "Absolute Control" of ones Emotions and Behaviors, and not having any "negative" emotions over periods of time. Also, in his seminars, putting people into "Peak States" all day long, etc. I believe he has said that we have "absolute control of our emotions", which is not true, in my view, and in the view of mainstream psychology. (we can INFLUENCE our emotions, though). Many times he said openly, that we can LIVE in a "Peak State", (that is a type of very excited energy level) ALL THE TIME. This is absurd in the extreme, in my view. Why does he say it?

If people set UNATTAINABLE GOALS, then they will be perpetually dissatisfied, and then guess what? Dissatisfied people buy more Product and Services. If you feel pretty good about yourself, why would you spend thousands of dollars on a Tony Robbins Ra-Ra Weekend?

Food Control - by this, i merely mean he has a type of "special diet" for people to eat, that is different from what current science recommends. Many cults seem to do this, its another way of having "control" over your people. Thats what i meant. Prescribing a "unique diet" for his people.

But believe me, its my personal opinion that Robbins is practicing countless "mind control" techniques, and Mass Persuasion Techniques. Why are so many people so obsessed with him? His Intellect? NOT!

No, in my view he uses dozens of unconscious persuasion techniques, to get people hooked into his stuff. All the way from Eriksonian Hypnosis, to Social Proof, to super-hardball Sales techniques, and literally many many DOZENS of other powerful techniques.

And if you want to experience ABSOLUTISM, go to his seminar, or webboard for that matter, and ask a Skeptical question about any of his techniques! Try to stand up at a Seminar, and say,

"hey Tony, I think all of this jumping up and down like maniacs is foolish, and all it does is to "condition" people to "feel good" when they look at you, and makes them buy more products. You are just Anchoring people to you, in a very extreme way, so they'll buy more of your stuff".

If one said this, or something like it, it would be received very poorly. Its a ONE WAY COMMUNICATION, from HIM, to the audience. This is another "cultic" method. And all of the Mass Mind chanting and echoing of his questions and phrases..i find the entire thing repugnant.

And he uses some "Free Employees" called CREW at his FOR-PROFIT events, just like some "cultish groups" do. He charges people a small fortune for the weekend, and he can't afford to pay these CREW folks who work all day and night for him?

I could go on forever, so what i am saying, is that if you compare the techniques he uses, to the techniques the so-called Cults use, there seems to be lots of similarities to me!

Tony Robbins is one of the top Influencers and Persuaders in the world, and his specialty is doing it WITHOUT peoples awareness.
Unconscious Influence.
And in my view, the VAST majority of his "fans" have no idea of all of the very sophisticated and powerful techniques he uses.

Years ago he used to use an example taken from the "CIA", about how to shatter peoples Identity, by destroying all of their "references" to their current sense of Self, and then rebuilding a new "Identity" by building new references.

Now many "Leaders of Groups" make "claims" of working with the "CIA", the Army, and groups like that. They do that as that makes people think they are like "James Bond", and they have access to "secret knowledge" of these occult spy agencies. (also, the CIA won't confirm or deny if you worked for them!).

These days I see him doing more Unconscious Manipulation/Persuasion/Influence, so most people do NOT notice it. That is the point!

I am not interested in being manipulated in such an extreme way.

Coz

I'm here with an open mind, and some of the stuff you're saying is kind of valid. However, there are a couple things that you're misconstruing in my opinion. The food stuff isn't mind control, it's just basic health stuff. Have you done any of it? I have tried it, and it really did make me healtheir, and allowed me to lose some weight and whatnot. It's not something I take to the extreme, and I don't buy his products, but I follow some of it and I think it has helped me.

And you're right about the money aspect of it, it is pretty expensive and I wouldn't do Platinum Partnership or spend my life savings to do this stuff, and the sales pushes are quite, well, for lack of a better word, pushy. But all in all, he does give out a lot of helpful information, and having met the guy I do find him to be sincere. Now I know this could all be a massive conspiracy to brainwash me and make me be his devoted follower, but I'm quite a skeptic when it comes to this type of stuff, and I consider myself pretty individualistic, so I've never been much of a follower. I will lead, not follow...

The best cults out there will take the little bit of truth to rope people in. Once they have you, they then feed you a bunch of bologne. Many people don't suspect the bologne because, after all, they agreed with the other things they knew were true. For instance, many religious cults will rope people in by saying that "love is the most powerful thing in the world." Many people believe that statement. They must be valid!

Many people believe Tony Robbins' wacky nutritional advice because he has a physician backing him up. Physicians do know a lot about a lot, but most of them do not take ONE nutrition class to become a medical doctor. The reason why I know this is because my medical school (my dietetics program is part of one of the best medical schools in the country) is trying to change this so docs have some nutritional expertise. But most people don't know that most docs don't have any nutrition background. They have MD behind their name so they should know everything, right? I need to clarify that some docs DO know about nutrition, but look at their credentials first. It will say...

Any diet that talks about having to control your own pH is rubbish. Most people's bodies can control its own pH. The body is an absolutely amazing machine. There are so many biochemical balancing mechanisms internally that promote homeostasis. Unless you are sick or are eating a very strange diet, your body will take care of the pH issue. I'm sure your nutritionist has already told you this!

This just furthers my apprehension about Tony Robbins. I had not heard about his nutritional advice. This just drives home the need for people to do their own research. And with Tony, he does have very impressive marketing skills. I was a marketing manager prior to my going back to school, so I know how good marketing can sell trash. But it doesn't take someone with a marketing background to know this fact.

Ang

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Any diet that talks about having to control your own pH is rubbish. Most people's bodies can control its own pH. The body is an absolutely amazing machine. There are so many biochemical balancing mechanisms internally that promote homeostasis. Unless you are sick or are eating a very strange diet, your body will take care of the pH issue. I'm sure your nutritionist has already told you this!

Not to turn this into a thread about dietary models, but the acid-alkaline model is very old - it used to be taught in med schools pre symptom-control medicine. Doctors are now actually starting to get a little more info in med school about nutrition. FOr instance, with osteoporosis, medical science has begun to see how diet affects the rate of loss of minerals from a high acid diet (protein, caffeine). It is certainly known that type 2 diabetes can be managed by reducing foods metabolized as acid, and now CAD is being linked to inflammation, another result of slightly over-acidity. It's when the natural balancing mechanisms of the body can't keep up that disease progresses.

At a conference at NY Columbia School of Nutrition, it was made clear that the US Food Pyramid will not promote health and in some cases, will make people sicker who follow it. Researchers are looking at the Latin, Mediterranean and Asian pyramids now. These pyramids were formed based on what health people eat, not what the industry-influenced governments say people should eat.

But the problem with people like Tony Robbins, as you stated, is the little bit of truth that ropes people in. His dietary guidelines might be valid, but if the goal is not to help people but to make them sheep in his flock, that's there the problem lies.

[www.serendipity.li]

Cosmo can go through the list.

.

Well, I can see that you have pretty strong feelings about it being ridiculous and rubish and whatnot. That's ok, I did too. And there are a lot of things out there that I think is total b.s. too. It's just not your cup of tea. And I can also see that posting on this board can be futile in some cases because most people here have already decided one way or the other that X, Y, or Z is a cult. You're not here to seek the answer to the question "Is this a cult?", you're here to vent about what you already believe to be the answer, that it's all a cult and you want to sympathize with each other about it and gain support.

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JVSnoodle
The food stuff isn't mind control, it's just basic health stuff. Have you done any of it?

My friend, unfortunately for me, I have done it all.

Robbins OLD food "idea", was the "Fit For Life" idea, which was “food combining”, and only eating fruit before noon, no dairy, etc etc. I did that years ago, as when I was younger I was as credulous as the next guy. That "diet" is very unhealthy, and is NOT supported by current science. (TR does NOT use many aspects of this old diet anymore, and he switched to the acid-alkaline thing, for which there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE I am aware of.). The best way to eat in m opinion is to follow current Science, and eat a widely varied diet.

I didn't say "food control is mind control".

What I meant is that a type of "special diet" is a part of all cultic groups, it seems. And TR always has some type of "special diet", which in my opinion, is to fulfill the same purpose as the cultish groups use it for, to give the group more "unity". Try to go to a Tony Robbins function, and drink coffee, or eat outside the "guidelines". There is enormous Social Pressure to CONFORM. Its just another persuasion tactic. CONFORM TO THE GROUP NOW.

My friend, if you LIKE Tony Robbins, and "ENJOY buying his stuff", go right ahead. Its your money, life, and mind.
I am NOT trying to convince you that Tony Robbins might be overcharging you, and unconsciously persuading and influencing you to buy his products and services, and then all you are left with is trying to rationalize these over-expensive purchases.

Coz

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JVSnoodle
And you're right about the money aspect of it, it is pretty expensive and I wouldn't do Platinum Partnership or spend my life savings to do this stuff, and the sales pushes are quite, well, for lack of a better word, pushy.
and having met the guy I do find him to be sincere. Now I know this could all be a massive conspiracy to brainwash me and make me be his devoted follower, but I'm quite a skeptic when it comes to this type of stuff, and I consider myself pretty individualistic, so I've never been much of a follower. I will lead, not follow...

Well firstly, your comment about the $65,000.00 a year thing is right on.
And TR is an AMAZING likable and charismatic person! He is like a big Movie Star! And he has an AMAZING talent to have all sorts of different people LIKE him. (LIKEABILITY).

And you sound like a smart guy.
But I did NOT say it was a "massive conspiracy".

I think its about MONEY, and FAME, and RESPECT, and POWER, and Tony Robbins giant ego.

I heard of one guy, who got so OVEREXCITED by TR, that he borrowed every cent he could, bought a TR franchise, and lost many many thousands of dollars, and thus lost EVERYTHING including his house. Around that time TR had some of his former franchisees going to the FTC over Franchising issues.

And read the Robbins message boards, many people there talk about signing contracts when they were “overexcited” and spending “money they didn’t have”. But here is the kicker. TR gets these folks to FEEL GOOD about doing this! I tell ya, the guy is a Master Salesman!

Anyway, TR & Co are incredible Persuaders, that is their #1 skill.
If you enjoy his stuff, then go right ahead! What you "choose" to do is your decision.

But for me, I am interested in STUDYING very carefully the techniques he is using.
In "Get The Edge", for instance. I see him using some hypnotic techniques, and so-called "Thought Reform" techniques openly! So in my personal opinion, people are paying Robbins money to advertise for Robbins in their own brain to get themselves to buy more of his stuff!

I am just pointing out that he is a Master Persuader.
Or in other words, a MASTER MANIPULATOR par excellence.

Coz

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Ang2BRD
Many people believe Tony Robbins' wacky nutritional advice because he has a physician backing him up. Physicians do know a lot about a lot, but most of them do not take ONE nutrition class to become a medical doctor.
They have MD behind their name so they should know everything, right?

Any diet that talks about having to control your own pH is rubbish. Most people's bodies can control its own pH. The body is an absolutely amazing machine. There are so many biochemical balancing mechanisms internally that promote homeostasis.

This just furthers my apprehension about Tony Robbins. I had not heard about his nutritional advice. This just drives home the need for people to do their own research.

Yo Ang, great post!
Yes! This acid-alkaline thing could very well be just some nutty idea. Some quack theory. ok fine! Where is the science? Where are the tests? Where are the papers in the peer-reviewed journals? (there are none I am aware of).

My personal opinion?
Well, even doctors are human, and guess what? Many doctors are greedy as hell too! Many "doctors" back all sorts of bogus products, as they can make MILLIONS if it catches on. And many doctors want to make millions of dollars, and these quack "nutritional" products are the best way to do it because they are not regulated like a drug.

If you could hear the TR sales pitch about the acid-alkaline thing, you might shake your head in disgust.
To me its just Marketing of a VERY high-margin product, and another "technique" to create Group Conformity. And now he is getting into "cleansing retreats", where people look at their blood cells under microscopes, etc. (must be a West Coast granola thing). (what’s next, group enemas, and then looking at the enemas under the microscope?) [EDIT: yes, enemas are next, but no microscope!] :shock:

I think Tony Robbins knows EXACTLY what he is doing.
To me the guy is literally like an old-time Mesmerizer!

Coz

Mesmerize
1. To spellbind; enthrall: “He could mesmerize an audience by the sheer force of his presence”.
2. To hypnotize.