I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
ON2 LF
()
Date: October 11, 2007 07:55AM
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They're not the saviors of the planet nor are they the root of all evilQuote
Definately NOT EVER the saviours of the planet, and the root of all evil ($$) is exactly what LGATs were designed to bring in and what keeps them in business. Yes, even the 'non-profit' LGATs, not everyone is unaware of this bait and switch approach to developing a clientele.
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
boonetahoe
()
Date: October 11, 2007 09:27AM
Quote
boonetahoe wrote
>>I'm NO supporter of Impact. In fact, exactly the opposite. But, the lady who started this thread wanted actual, experienced feedback<<
>>I'd suggest you consider doing the basic training and the first level of TIT. <<
You have just recommended she give over $3,000.00 to Hans and Sally, as the price of "keeping her family together."
That's just nuts, given what you claim to know about them, their company, your experiences in TIT, the long-term value of their "trainings," and your claim of personal relationships with their trainers.
I guess the short version of my question to you is, why would you recommend that? Do you really believe that Quest to TIT 1 is really worth 3,000 of her dollars and 25+ 12+ hour-long days of her time?
Then double that for her brother.
Add in any other family members who have not done the training.
Add in any others in her life who she will be pressured by them (or, perhaps, feel an inner desire) to enroll.
Add in the other mastery trainings she will be expected to sign up for (can you be in TIT 1 as a woman and not also do the inner woman trainings without feeling, or being made to feel, uncomfortable?)
Yes, I think it's worth it. In my experience, for every one person who hates the training (even Hans' and Sally's) there are hundreds who loved it.
Again, I would recommend almost ANY OTHER training first before Hans' and Sally's, but if her family's already doing it there. . .
Why does any training (or anything in this life) need to be all-good or all-bad. Is it possible that Impact's a mixed bag?
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Your recommendation above is for a cash flow in the tens of thousands of dollars to Hans and Sally.
If she enrolls others between Quest and TIT1, as she will surely be pressured to do, then your recommendation above is for a cash flow, over time, as those she enrolls also enroll others, into the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of DOLLARS.
Isn't that a rather high price that her family now demands of her to remain connected to them?
And how come that is required of her when Impact says they are about creating healed relationships? Working marriages? Loving connection to others? Transformed lives?
First of all, I don't think that Impact claims to be about family unity. I've heard Hans and Sally preach that family members who aren't "getting it" as "Workers of Light" should be sidelined. I've watched them counsel divorce, estrangement, etc..
But, those who heed their words are the kind of people (typcially) who needed someone how to tell them to live their lives. That's not nearly the majority of the trainees.
I'm not suggesting that she put herself in Hans' and Sally's hands. I'm merely suggesting that the training can be experienced and enjoyed without drinking the Kool-aid.
Hans and Sally don't have that kind of power except in cases where people voluntarily decide to give them that power.
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How come her graduate friends and family aren't creating this on their own in their lives and hers, without the demand she also do Impact? without having her report feeling isolated? abandoned? condemned? less-than?
How come the ones not involved at Impact can't seem to experience that with their loved ones who have done the training? Didn't they get anything from it?
How come it seems that they are now able to only unconditionally love other graduates?
This is a great point. LGATs in general (all of them including the one I'm involved with) do a noticeably poor job in coaching their people to communicate with their non-graduate friends and family. In the case of Impact, the problem is greatly worsened because the Bergers actually preach separation and "cutting free" of people who aren't in synch with their training (which basically is limited to TIT3 graduates.)
But, I emphasize my original point that you can do this training without becoming part of the organization. It's easy and lots of graduates do it. In fact, relatively few graduates go on to become groupies.
I'm saying "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" especially when the "baby" is her family.
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How come this woman you claim you are now trying to help is now expected to fork over a month of her life and $3,000.00 plus in cash to have what her loved ones were promised THEY would create in THEIR lives by doing the training to IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Again, good point. At the same time, her family must have had the seeds of exclusion and this inclination to bond to extra-family organizations BEFORE they went to Impact or they wouldn't have bonded to the Bergers as they seem to have done. Her family had this weakness (assuming it's a weakness) before and she didn't abandon them. Why abandon them now when they're most "at risk?"
If she's strong enough to see past the Berger's pitch, she could help calm her family's fervor and moderate their cultish inclinations. Why isn't that a possibility? There's no way they'll listen to her from outside. Why not wade in, take what works from the training and discard the rest?
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Of course the ultimate logical end of the recommendation you propose is that everyone on the planet would have to do Impact.
You know I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, knowing what I know, if my whole family did Impact and if I was staying out of it and it was creating division in my family, I'd just go ahead and do it. There's not that much to lose ($3,000 and a month is not that much to sacrifice to preserve a family.)
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And the reality is that rather than create a "working world" what Impact in fact creates is an us vs. them, army-of-light vs. unenlightened, superior vs. inferior, win vs lose, winners vs. losers, in-the-cult vs. evil, broken mess of a world.
I'd urge you to reconsider your recommendation about how this young woman can create a working family.
Based on what you have shared, you must know that her loved ones will likely get kicked out the back door after at most a few years of being stuck in this cult.
Another good point. That's something to throw into the mix. But, is she happy sitting out from her family for that time?
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Especially if they prove unable to enroll anyone else in their family, fork over any more cash or in some other way produce a direct benefit to the Bergers.
The best thing she and others can do is to stay away; be a stand for "having it all" (including having all the time and cash they would otherwise be giving to Impact for, ultimately, nothing), and make it perfectly clear that despite all their "advanced training" and "enlightenment" her loved ones remain utterly impotent at being able to "enroll" her.
They will be grateful, very grateful, to her later for it.
Don't you think?
At least that's my experience, and what I've seen time after time there.
So, boonetahoe reflecting on the above and on whatever you may have learned from other things you have read here is this still your recommendation?
>>I'd suggest you consider doing the basic training and the first level of TIT. <<
Impacted
PS I will agree with you that there are some "feel good" moments in the Impact trainings that I have many times wished everyone on the planet could experience -- from being lifted into the air on the fingertips of a dozen other people after the stretches in Summit, to caught in a cradle in a trust fall with the perfect music playing, to leaping from the perch on the ropes course.
There's just no way, looking back on it all, I feel it's worth anything near $3,000.00 from my friend's pockets; or a month's worth of their time, or, especially, the risk my friends and family or anyone else on the planet might get sucked into the crystal worshiping, mantra (decree) chanting, sexual-energy charged environment that the TIT 1, 2, and III and "graduate mastery" trainings are.
In addition, there are many processes in Quest -- as well as some in their Guest Presentations -- that I have seen do far more harm than good. Risks I'm no longer willing to recommend to others or in any way be associated with.
You're right. It's a close call. I'd still do it. If you add up the possible personal benefit to her to the idea of bringing her family back together -- if it were me, I'd do it.
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: October 11, 2007 09:48AM
Hey if you want to play russian roulette with YOUR life, that is fine, but don't come here and suggest that it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Also, on what statistic do you base your assumption that only one in a hundred are dissatisfied with Impact? What if I told you that the vast majority find that Impact added little to no long term value? Don't the horror stories that have happened to a select few bother you in the slightest? Impact killed your empathy friend. Being willing to recommend someone do something run by people that are corrupt is unethical, irrational and ludicrous. You cannot separate the trainings from those that facilitate them. It is idiocy. IDIOCY. Let rick ross kick me off for attacking you personally for this. I am sick of idiot clone apologists for this LGAT nonsense. YOU ARE BEING AN IDIOT OF LEMMING/SHEEP PROPORTIONS! You have lost a critical thinking part of your mind. You want to have your poisonous cake, eat it too, and rub other peoples faces in it if it could "assist" them. I have watched families be torn apart, good, innocent people being accused of sexual deviancy and innocent dupes commit SUICIDE because of the SEWAGE these people pump into our minds and hearts! SCREW THIS RETARD WAR OF A CONVERSATION.
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
boonetahoe
()
Date: October 11, 2007 09:57AM
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exImpact
Hey if you want to play russian roulette with YOUR life, that is fine, but don't come here and suggest that it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Also, on what statistic do you base your assumption that only one in a hundred are dissatisfied with Impact? What if I told you that the vast majority find that Impact added little to no long term value? Don't the horror stories that have happened to a select few bother you in the slightest? Impact killed your empathy friend. Being willing to recommend someone do something run by people that are corrupt is unethical, irrational and ludicrous. You cannot separate the trainings from those that facilitate them. It is idiocy. IDIOCY. Let rick ross kick me off for attacking you personally for this. I am sick of idiot clone apologists for this LGAT nonsense. YOU ARE BEING AN IDIOT OF LEMMING/SHEEP PROPORTIONS! You have lost a critical thinking part of your mind. You want to have your poisonous cake, eat it too, and rub other peoples faces in it if it could "assist" them. I have watched families be torn apart, good, innocent people being accused of sexual deviancy and innocent dupes commit SUICIDE because of the SEWAGE these people pump into our minds and hearts! SCREW THIS RETARD WAR OF A CONVERSATION.
You're at war, friend, not anyone else. Check out your bitter, angry, poisonous language. You're raging about this. You have NO apparent objectivity.
I haven't seen exactly the same thing as you have and I have good perspective on this thing. I haven't been around the Bergers for a long, long time and I've seen hundreds of friends do their training.
In my perspective, you're being melodramatic about Impact. It has earned a lot of reasonable criticism, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't have family up-to-their-necks in it, but it's not evil incarnate.
When people respond with this level of intensity, I begin to wonder why they NEED TO BELIEVE that the thing is so bad. I don't have a burning need to invalidate the Berger training. I believe that gives me better perspective than someone who apparently is burning up inside to tear the Bergers apart.
Like most everything in life, I believe that Impact's some bad, some good. Why is it so important to believe that it's ALL BAD? (It's just so unlikely -- very little in life is ALL BAD.)
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: October 11, 2007 10:01AM
Quote
boonetahoe
In my experience, for every one person who hates the training (even Hans' and Sally's) there are hundreds who loved it.
Wow, that sounds like a well researched statement. Do you talk to a lot of formerimpacters or just the people that are currently in the building when you show up?
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boonetahoe
$3,000 and a month is not that much to sacrifice to preserve a family.
You're assuming that attending Impact will actually preserve he family. Umm, see my former statement. That course of action made things A LOT worse for my family.
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: October 11, 2007 10:13AM
WHAT perspective? You admit to not knowing them for a long time. YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT. My friend [i:3747c56654]killed[/i:3747c56654] himself because his family and Impact abandoned their sense by doing everything Impact told them to do. It doesn't do anything! They didn't know anything was wrong because they were on Impact's cloud nine of life, only looking at the good, pretending evil "heaviness" are illusions. We all ignored the warning signs, because he was always saying "it it all in divine order!" It was in his suicide note!!! And this is just one that you never have heard about.
You have NO perspective, you want to see what you want to see. You attack me and not the issues. I am done with the Rick Ross website. There is nothing new I can say that I have not already said and repeating myself has become boring. I wish you all the best, and I hope you pull your head out of your ass someday Boone.
Thank you for the site Rick.
You have NO perspective, you want to see what you want to see. You attack me and not the issues. I am done with the Rick Ross website. There is nothing new I can say that I have not already said and repeating myself has become boring. I wish you all the best, and I hope you pull your head out of your ass someday Boone.
Thank you for the site Rick.
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
Impacted
()
Date: October 11, 2007 10:21AM
Boonetahoe,
Thanks for answering the questions I asked. It helps me to see more clearly where you are coming from. I appreciate and value it and find some of the replies you've gotten here to be unfortunate and not valuable. It's not my intention to in any way "flame you" and if you see that I am doing that, please let me know. Unlike the typical TIT III Graduate, I'm far from perfect! :)
The core assumption you are making that I disagree with, of course, is that if NOTImpacted were to do Quest, Summit, Lift-off and TIT 1, spend the $3,000.00+, and give a month of her life to it, and have her one remaining brother, and whoever else is in her family or in close relationship with them to do it, that somehow her family would be working again, or working like it never has before.
First, you seem to be certain that would happen.
I'm not. I am certain it wouldn't.
You seem to believe it would be a more than $3,000.00 in value investment of her time.
I believe it would be a waste of time. Create even more problems. I've seen lots of those occur among family members who did the trainings years apart. Typically the new ones are having the time of their lives, grateful to their family members who enrolled them -- at about the time the family members who are now in the TIT levels see the dishonesty, disintegrity and lies behind the curtains, and try to get them all to leave.
Surely you've seen that too?
Secondly, you seem to believe there's no risk of harm coming to her in doing this.
I do. Were she do do Quest to TIT1 not only is there no guarantee of a healed family, there's a too high probability of even more damage being done, at least in my experience and what I've seen up close of many others.
>>This is a great point. LGATs in general (all of them including the one I'm involved with) <<
There's the difference between us. I no longer support any LGAT. You do.
So did you dod Impact Quest to TIT 1 and then go over to Harmony/Great Life or VisionWorks? Or find some other Lifespring-like company outside of Utah?
Can you share which one you are with? Support? Enroll others into?
Do you train for them? Staff frequently? Work in their office?
>>do a noticeably poor job in coaching their people to communicate with their non-graduate friends and family.<<
Their entire focus IS on communicating with non-graduate friends and family, but not to heal relationships -- just to get them to the next GP/Graduation and into the next Quest/Discovery?Awakening/Forum/whatever.
If they really created what they claim (on their website, in GPs and Graduations) to create for their graduates (transformation, healing, efffective heart-to-heart connections), would they need an enrollment weekend? Or all the other pressure? Or ANY pressure at all?
>>First of all, I don't think that Impact claims to be about family unity. I've heard Hans and Sally preach that family members who aren't "getting it" as "Workers of Light" should be sidelined. I've watched them counsel divorce, estrangement, etc.. <<
Good point back at you. Exactly.
I was talking about was based in what they say in Guest Presentations, Graduations, and on their website.
What they say in the Training room, or even more explicitly in one of their offices about divorcing and distancing oneself from those under the "power of the adversary" is chilling.
And in total opposition to what they would tell a guest in a GP or at a Graduation, or put on their website.
Your point is excellent and should go on our list of Hans' Top Ten Lies.
I appreciate your reply, and knowing you remain in an LGAT and still, despite what you have shared, feel Hans and Sally (as well as other LGATs) do more good than harm -- that what Impact especially offers is more valuable than $3,000.00+ and a solid month of one's time -- just gives me chills.
Really. I know I used to believe that too. And that's what gives me the coldest chills of all.
I'll bet when you leave the LGAT that you're currently in, Harmony or wherever, you'll see it much differently, and work, as many of us here are doing, to undo the damage we did in our past by sending so many friends into these "trainings" and dealing with the non-working, long-term results (yes, there were momentary, even weeks or months-long, feel good experiences, but they do not last. Have they really lasted for you? Among all of those you enrolled? Most? Some? What percentage say 2+ years out?)
I trust you are open to the possibility that that is where you're heading too (working to undo damage done by enrolling there) and you'll start to really look at whether you are doing more harm than good, long-term, for those you enroll into whatever LGAT you are with. Be careful. In my experience there are eternal consequences at stake for all of us here.
There are many other powerful ways to create healed relationships, at far less cost, and with far less risk of damage, and far more lasting results than anything offered by Impact or any other LGAT.
Really there are.
Trust me.
Impacted
Thanks for answering the questions I asked. It helps me to see more clearly where you are coming from. I appreciate and value it and find some of the replies you've gotten here to be unfortunate and not valuable. It's not my intention to in any way "flame you" and if you see that I am doing that, please let me know. Unlike the typical TIT III Graduate, I'm far from perfect! :)
The core assumption you are making that I disagree with, of course, is that if NOTImpacted were to do Quest, Summit, Lift-off and TIT 1, spend the $3,000.00+, and give a month of her life to it, and have her one remaining brother, and whoever else is in her family or in close relationship with them to do it, that somehow her family would be working again, or working like it never has before.
First, you seem to be certain that would happen.
I'm not. I am certain it wouldn't.
You seem to believe it would be a more than $3,000.00 in value investment of her time.
I believe it would be a waste of time. Create even more problems. I've seen lots of those occur among family members who did the trainings years apart. Typically the new ones are having the time of their lives, grateful to their family members who enrolled them -- at about the time the family members who are now in the TIT levels see the dishonesty, disintegrity and lies behind the curtains, and try to get them all to leave.
Surely you've seen that too?
Secondly, you seem to believe there's no risk of harm coming to her in doing this.
I do. Were she do do Quest to TIT1 not only is there no guarantee of a healed family, there's a too high probability of even more damage being done, at least in my experience and what I've seen up close of many others.
>>This is a great point. LGATs in general (all of them including the one I'm involved with) <<
There's the difference between us. I no longer support any LGAT. You do.
So did you dod Impact Quest to TIT 1 and then go over to Harmony/Great Life or VisionWorks? Or find some other Lifespring-like company outside of Utah?
Can you share which one you are with? Support? Enroll others into?
Do you train for them? Staff frequently? Work in their office?
>>do a noticeably poor job in coaching their people to communicate with their non-graduate friends and family.<<
Their entire focus IS on communicating with non-graduate friends and family, but not to heal relationships -- just to get them to the next GP/Graduation and into the next Quest/Discovery?Awakening/Forum/whatever.
If they really created what they claim (on their website, in GPs and Graduations) to create for their graduates (transformation, healing, efffective heart-to-heart connections), would they need an enrollment weekend? Or all the other pressure? Or ANY pressure at all?
>>First of all, I don't think that Impact claims to be about family unity. I've heard Hans and Sally preach that family members who aren't "getting it" as "Workers of Light" should be sidelined. I've watched them counsel divorce, estrangement, etc.. <<
Good point back at you. Exactly.
I was talking about was based in what they say in Guest Presentations, Graduations, and on their website.
What they say in the Training room, or even more explicitly in one of their offices about divorcing and distancing oneself from those under the "power of the adversary" is chilling.
And in total opposition to what they would tell a guest in a GP or at a Graduation, or put on their website.
Your point is excellent and should go on our list of Hans' Top Ten Lies.
I appreciate your reply, and knowing you remain in an LGAT and still, despite what you have shared, feel Hans and Sally (as well as other LGATs) do more good than harm -- that what Impact especially offers is more valuable than $3,000.00+ and a solid month of one's time -- just gives me chills.
Really. I know I used to believe that too. And that's what gives me the coldest chills of all.
I'll bet when you leave the LGAT that you're currently in, Harmony or wherever, you'll see it much differently, and work, as many of us here are doing, to undo the damage we did in our past by sending so many friends into these "trainings" and dealing with the non-working, long-term results (yes, there were momentary, even weeks or months-long, feel good experiences, but they do not last. Have they really lasted for you? Among all of those you enrolled? Most? Some? What percentage say 2+ years out?)
I trust you are open to the possibility that that is where you're heading too (working to undo damage done by enrolling there) and you'll start to really look at whether you are doing more harm than good, long-term, for those you enroll into whatever LGAT you are with. Be careful. In my experience there are eternal consequences at stake for all of us here.
There are many other powerful ways to create healed relationships, at far less cost, and with far less risk of damage, and far more lasting results than anything offered by Impact or any other LGAT.
Really there are.
Trust me.
Impacted
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
Impacted
()
Date: October 11, 2007 10:36AM
ExImpact,
>> I am done with the Rick Ross website. <<
I want to be clear that what I said to Boonetahoe about flaming messages to him was written before your most recent two replies.
I have NO problem with anything you've shared, and AM concerned about the anger and rage you feel.
My heart just breaks over your friend's suicide.
Please stay in touch. Boonetahoe is no different, I think, then either you or I were when we were enrolling others into this crap. At least not that much different.
I know I didn't listen to others who were out of Impact back then. Even former trainers I had had who left over just god-awful stuff. I doubt you did either. I stayed there long after I should have. Long after it made sense.
It's not surprising he's not listening yet either.
Deprogramming takes awhile.
Especially for something like Impact which we know is driven by evil.
Hang in there, friend.
Please.
Impacted
>> I am done with the Rick Ross website. <<
I want to be clear that what I said to Boonetahoe about flaming messages to him was written before your most recent two replies.
I have NO problem with anything you've shared, and AM concerned about the anger and rage you feel.
My heart just breaks over your friend's suicide.
Please stay in touch. Boonetahoe is no different, I think, then either you or I were when we were enrolling others into this crap. At least not that much different.
I know I didn't listen to others who were out of Impact back then. Even former trainers I had had who left over just god-awful stuff. I doubt you did either. I stayed there long after I should have. Long after it made sense.
It's not surprising he's not listening yet either.
Deprogramming takes awhile.
Especially for something like Impact which we know is driven by evil.
Hang in there, friend.
Please.
Impacted
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
boonetahoe
()
Date: October 11, 2007 10:50AM
Quote
exImpact
WHAT perspective? You admit to not knowing them for a long time. YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT. My friend [i:7773516945]killed[/i:7773516945] himself because his family and Impact abandoned their sense by doing everything Impact told them to do. It doesn't do anything! They didn't know anything was wrong because they were on Impact's cloud nine of life, only looking at the good, pretending evil "heaviness" are illusions. We all ignored the warning signs, because he was always saying "it it all in divine order!" It was in his suicide note!!! And this is just one that you never have heard about.
You have NO perspective, you want to see what you want to see. You attack me and not the issues. I am done with the Rick Ross website. There is nothing new I can say that I have not already said and repeating myself has become boring. I wish you all the best, and I hope you pull your head out of your ass someday Boone.
Thank you for the site Rick.
Wow. Should I even reply to that. How tragic.
I don't know what it all means, but you're right -- I've never heard of anyone committing suicide after an LGAT and I've probably personally witnessed around 3,000 doing the training and coming out from good to great.
That's terrible.
I HATE IMPACT!!!!! Yes, HATE!!!
Posted by:
boonetahoe
()
Date: October 11, 2007 10:53AM
Quote
Impacted
ExImpact,
>> I am done with the Rick Ross website. <<
I want to be clear that what I said to Boonetahoe about flaming messages to him was written before your most recent two replies.
I have NO problem with anything you've shared, and AM concerned about the anger and rage you feel.
My heart just breaks over your friend's suicide.
Please stay in touch. Boonetahoe is no different, I think, then either you or I were when we were enrolling others into this crap. At least not that much different.
I know I didn't listen to others who were out of Impact back then. Even former trainers I had had who left over just god-awful stuff. I doubt you did either. I stayed there long after I should have. Long after it made sense.
It's not surprising he's not listening yet either.
Deprogramming takes awhile.
Especially for something like Impact which we know is driven by evil.
Hang in there, friend.
Please.
Impacted
I promise: I'm way, WAY out of the "program." Just because I'm objective doesn't mean I'm programmed. You can see that possibilty can't you?
How long ago did you do the Berger training? I wonder if I know you.
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