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boonetahoe wrote
>>I'm NO supporter of Impact. In fact, exactly the opposite. But, the lady who started this thread wanted actual, experienced feedback<<
>>I'd suggest you consider doing the basic training and the first level of TIT. <<
You have just recommended she give over $3,000.00 to Hans and Sally, as the price of "keeping her family together."
That's just nuts, given what you claim to know about them, their company, your experiences in TIT, the long-term value of their "trainings," and your claim of personal relationships with their trainers.
I guess the short version of my question to you is, why would you recommend that? Do you really believe that Quest to TIT 1 is really worth 3,000 of her dollars and 25+ 12+ hour-long days of her time?
Then double that for her brother.
Add in any other family members who have not done the training.
Add in any others in her life who she will be pressured by them (or, perhaps, feel an inner desire) to enroll.
Add in the other mastery trainings she will be expected to sign up for (can you be in TIT 1 as a woman and not also do the inner woman trainings without feeling, or being made to feel, uncomfortable?)
Yes, I think it's worth it. In my experience, for every one person who hates the training (even Hans' and Sally's) there are hundreds who loved it.
Again, I would recommend almost ANY OTHER training first before Hans' and Sally's, but if her family's already doing it there. . .
Why does any training (or anything in this life) need to be all-good or all-bad. Is it possible that Impact's a mixed bag?
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Your recommendation above is for a cash flow in the tens of thousands of dollars to Hans and Sally.
If she enrolls others between Quest and TIT1, as she will surely be pressured to do, then your recommendation above is for a cash flow, over time, as those she enrolls also enroll others, into the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of DOLLARS.
Isn't that a rather high price that her family now demands of her to remain connected to them?
And how come that is required of her when Impact says they are about creating healed relationships? Working marriages? Loving connection to others? Transformed lives?
First of all, I don't think that Impact claims to be about family unity. I've heard Hans and Sally preach that family members who aren't "getting it" as "Workers of Light" should be sidelined. I've watched them counsel divorce, estrangement, etc..
But, those who heed their words are the kind of people (typcially) who needed someone how to tell them to live their lives. That's not nearly the majority of the trainees.
I'm not suggesting that she put herself in Hans' and Sally's hands. I'm merely suggesting that the training can be experienced and enjoyed without drinking the Kool-aid.
Hans and Sally don't have that kind of power except in cases where people voluntarily decide to give them that power.
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How come her graduate friends and family aren't creating this on their own in their lives and hers, without the demand she also do Impact? without having her report feeling isolated? abandoned? condemned? less-than?
How come the ones not involved at Impact can't seem to experience that with their loved ones who have done the training? Didn't they get anything from it?
How come it seems that they are now able to only unconditionally love other graduates?
This is a great point. LGATs in general (all of them including the one I'm involved with) do a noticeably poor job in coaching their people to communicate with their non-graduate friends and family. In the case of Impact, the problem is greatly worsened because the Bergers actually preach separation and "cutting free" of people who aren't in synch with their training (which basically is limited to TIT3 graduates.)
But, I emphasize my original point that you can do this training without becoming part of the organization. It's easy and lots of graduates do it. In fact, relatively few graduates go on to become groupies.
I'm saying "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" especially when the "baby" is her family.
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How come this woman you claim you are now trying to help is now expected to fork over a month of her life and $3,000.00 plus in cash to have what her loved ones were promised THEY would create in THEIR lives by doing the training to IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Again, good point. At the same time, her family must have had the seeds of exclusion and this inclination to bond to extra-family organizations BEFORE they went to Impact or they wouldn't have bonded to the Bergers as they seem to have done. Her family had this weakness (assuming it's a weakness) before and she didn't abandon them. Why abandon them now when they're most "at risk?"
If she's strong enough to see past the Berger's pitch, she could help calm her family's fervor and moderate their cultish inclinations. Why isn't that a possibility? There's no way they'll listen to her from outside. Why not wade in, take what works from the training and discard the rest?
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Of course the ultimate logical end of the recommendation you propose is that everyone on the planet would have to do Impact.
You know I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, knowing what I know, if my whole family did Impact and if I was staying out of it and it was creating division in my family, I'd just go ahead and do it. There's not that much to lose ($3,000 and a month is not that much to sacrifice to preserve a family.)
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And the reality is that rather than create a "working world" what Impact in fact creates is an us vs. them, army-of-light vs. unenlightened, superior vs. inferior, win vs lose, winners vs. losers, in-the-cult vs. evil, broken mess of a world.
I'd urge you to reconsider your recommendation about how this young woman can create a working family.
Based on what you have shared, you must know that her loved ones will likely get kicked out the back door after at most a few years of being stuck in this cult.
Another good point. That's something to throw into the mix. But, is she happy sitting out from her family for that time?
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Especially if they prove unable to enroll anyone else in their family, fork over any more cash or in some other way produce a direct benefit to the Bergers.
The best thing she and others can do is to stay away; be a stand for "having it all" (including having all the time and cash they would otherwise be giving to Impact for, ultimately, nothing), and make it perfectly clear that despite all their "advanced training" and "enlightenment" her loved ones remain utterly impotent at being able to "enroll" her.
They will be grateful, very grateful, to her later for it.
Don't you think?
At least that's my experience, and what I've seen time after time there.
So, boonetahoe reflecting on the above and on whatever you may have learned from other things you have read here is this still your recommendation?
>>I'd suggest you consider doing the basic training and the first level of TIT. <<
Impacted
PS I will agree with you that there are some "feel good" moments in the Impact trainings that I have many times wished everyone on the planet could experience -- from being lifted into the air on the fingertips of a dozen other people after the stretches in Summit, to caught in a cradle in a trust fall with the perfect music playing, to leaping from the perch on the ropes course.
There's just no way, looking back on it all, I feel it's worth anything near $3,000.00 from my friend's pockets; or a month's worth of their time, or, especially, the risk my friends and family or anyone else on the planet might get sucked into the crystal worshiping, mantra (decree) chanting, sexual-energy charged environment that the TIT 1, 2, and III and "graduate mastery" trainings are.
In addition, there are many processes in Quest -- as well as some in their Guest Presentations -- that I have seen do far more harm than good. Risks I'm no longer willing to recommend to others or in any way be associated with.
You're right. It's a close call. I'd still do it. If you add up the possible personal benefit to her to the idea of bringing her family back together -- if it were me, I'd do it.