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Impacted
Boonetahoe,
>>I promise: I'm way, WAY out of the "program." <<
>>LGATs, including the one I am involved with. . . <<
OK, which is it? What LGAT are you involved with? And how can you claim to be WAY out of the program if you are still involved with one?
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Also, as EXImpact's experience is far more recent, including TIT III, I don't believe you're in a position to make recommendations about their current training.
You could recommend what they were doing 10+ years ago. But that doesn't exisit anymore.
They make a point of sharing how much of TIT has been moved into Quest. They enroll trainees into TIT during Quest.
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>>Just because I'm objective doesn't mean I'm programmed. You can see that possibilty can't you? <<
No. I don't claim to be objective at all. I just share my experience as best I can for what it's worth.
In this moment, and for some time now, I've not felt anger toward Impact or the Bergers. They are, in my experience, criminals. People I trust report not having been paid by them, having been lied to, robbed and slandered by them. There are records to back that up.
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Even if they were selling the Holy Bible, or even giving it away just for shaking Hans' hand, based on their unbroken 20+year record of illegal and unethical business practices I would not recommend anyone buy one from them!
Your recommendation that others go there, even if only because their family is already there, does not occur as anything even close to objective to me. Far from it!
I don't hold you, or anyone, as objective, especially about this stuff. Nor do I claim to be so myself.
(BTW: I am struck that we are discussing objectivism here on the 50th anniversary of Ayn Rand's publication of Atlas Shrugged!)
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>>How long ago did you do the Berger training? I wonder if I know you.<<
From what you have shared, I believe it's highly likely we have indeed met in person at some time there in the past.
But for all I knowright now, you could be Sally playing some sick game here, or one of her many certain-she-is-the-Goddess minions.
Impacted
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Impacted
Boonetahoe,
>>The Great Life Foundation <<
Then you are far from "WAY out of the program."
As far as I am concerned, you lied when you said that.
You are in, at best, the Impact Training from 5 years ago -- like saying you are "WAY out of the program" when, in reality, you left a Burger King to work at a McDonalds (pun intended), or McOrvises.
You are right about the Bergers being sold out through January, but many other dangerous cults attract much higher numbers.
This isn't any measure of "success" that I respect, or hold as an indication of any change in their integrity, or liklihood of furture criminal behaviors.
As for Great Life, I don't know much about them except that they have former (fired) Impact trainers working there, like JJ and Mike Garnder (who I gather has left, but I'll bet will be back) and Deon and others like Anna Lee who trained under Hans and Sally. Don't you also do a firewalk in your Lift-off trainings? Care to share about that?
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I know he Jubacks from TIT II, their claims of being called to "this work" in a pre-existant, marble-roomed, counsel of gods, and descriptions of Hans and Sally as their "one true family," and their sickening sharing, before their breakup, of trips out of Utah that they took together with Hans and Sally -- they are just as slimey; and the Orvis' from the old days. Apparently the excess profits from their various internet Credit Clean Up businesses, and keep the bills paid there?
And isn't your Quest trainer still married to his first (or second) wife, but now living with another woman/other women? I apologize if that's not true and is just dirt Sally wanted him slandered with. But it's commonly talked about around Impact, or at least that's what I've heard.
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Great Life also seems to have recently welcomed any number of ex-Impact TIT III graduates to participate, staff, and work there as employees and bring TIT stuff into your trainings. They're trying to get more TIT IIIers to join them there. "Dump Hans and Sally but keep the best of TIT III."
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That's all I need to know to stay far, far, far away from your place.
Why you would choose to be involved with any of that is, I hope you understand, a significant trust issue, not only for me, but for, I believe, everyone here.
I do wish you well,
Impacted
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Impacted
Boonthaoe,
>>Of course, I would rather have seen that the gal's family who started this post had stayed away from the Bergers, but now that they're there. . . What's she going to do? Divide her family. That's not a spectacular option. <<
Again where we disagree is in your apparent certainty that by doing Impact she would in reality reunite with her family -- and my certainty that there's virtually no chance that would happen.
Perhaps for a moment it might seem it had.
But haven't you seen the same long-term effects I have? Some of her family are likely to become/remain ardent TIT IIIers. Others will not. They will either quit or be thrown out. She won't be as alone anymore, but there will be a pro-Impact part of the family and an anti-Impact part within a year or two.
Hopefully they will all get kicked out soon enough, and they can reunite with her without her having to do the training.
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Really, there's no way the long-term value (and I mean a year or so post Lift-off) is seen as worth $3,000.00 and a month of one's life, by anyone who doesn't keep staffing and enrolling there.
(If it were, then, Where is everybody? You claim only 1 of 100 is anti-impact. But what I notice is 1 year post-lift off only 1 or 2 of each lift off remains involved. My position is the other 90+ percent don't feel they got sufficient value out of it to remain involved.)
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>>In the Berger's minds, you and I both know that they think that they're 100% justified in doing what they do <<
That was not my experience. Maybe you were not as close to them as I was/am. Late night, out of town, over dinner -- they laugh at some of the gullible rubes the get into their trainings. How they could train them to stare at a wall for a day, and their doe-eyed guru seeking worshipers would say, "It's be best training ever."
Didn't they share their disgust, and distrust, of most of their trainees with you?
Or how about how they talk about their own trainers and employees behind their backs?
If you were truly close to them, then you would at least have heard how they rip into Ward and Pamela.
Did you really never hear that?
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Or Hans rip into Sally, and Sally into him (with language that would make George Patton or San Kinneson blush.)
Nope, I don't believe they feel they are noble, Gods and Godesses. My experience is they know what they are doing, could give a crap, and are laughing behind all our backs.
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>>-- and we think we're 100% justified in opposing them. <<
Not there either. Sometimes I wonder. But in their world, as everything is in Divine Order all the time, I'm relatively confident that they must, if they practice what they preach, see me as their best friend.
:)
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I am not 100 percent confident about "opposing them." I'm relatively certain that's not even what I am doing.
I am 100 percent confident that good comes from wholeheartedly sharing our experiences with each other and trusting the best will come from that.
>>I'm guessing that we're not Yoda and that they're not Darth Vader. <<
Well, on the first point we agree.
On the second, we almost agree.
I am certain Hans was never as pure as Aniken as a young man, Vader was never as evil as Hans at his worst, and Sally, as far as I can tell, has always been Jabba the Hut.
Impacted
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boonetahoe
That certainly happens a lot. But, you and I have both seen people go ten years first.
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boonetahoe
That's a huge logical leap. Most people create substantial value and then return to their lives in my experience. This, I believe, is true of most LGATs.
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boonetahoe
Also, I've worked side-by-side with the Jubacks over a long period of time and they're absolutely quality people in my book (despite the fact that they were once Berger-ites.) Weren't we all?
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boonetahoe
That certainly happens a lot. But, you and I have both seen people go ten years first.
I'm calling BS on this statement. Maybe you've seen one year. Unfortunately the pattern of dishonesty in your posts makes it impossible to take anything that you say at face value. I am 100% certain that you have never seen a divided family come together for 10 years before getting divided again by the trainings. The destruction that occurs in LGAT trainings happens A LOT faster than that. People don't even stick around for 10 years. Either they pull out of get thrown out. Let's have a little bit more honesty here...
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boonetahoe
That's a huge logical leap. Most people create substantial value and then return to their lives in my experience. This, I believe, is true of most LGATs.
How have you measured this? Have you done any research on Lift-Off grads after the first year or are you just attempting to mislead the forum again my making another unsubstantiated claim?
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boonetahoe
Also, I've worked side-by-side with the Jubacks over a long period of time and they're absolutely quality people in my book (despite the fact that they were once Berger-ites.) Weren't we all?
I know Steve Juback as well and the guy is a creep. He is every bit as bad as anyone at Impact and he is worse than quite a few. Again your penchant for being dishonest in your other posts leads me to believe that you yourself are probably more like Hans than you would like to let on.
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How many people have you willingly and knowingly lead into destruction? How many pieces of silver have you made by offering others up to be sacrificed? Also, don't pull the "non-profit" card. There are plenty of non-profit companies that still make a lot of money for the people at the top.