its not at all uncommon for crooks to engage in 'sheep stealing'--they infiltrate legitimate spiritual groups and snap up people who are vulnerable or too inexperienced to identify bullshitology.

Buddist 'big sky mind' is not created from denial or dissociation--quite the contrary. People who are experienced practitioners are the most 'present' grounded people you'll meet.

A real teacher or practice group creates an atmosphere that helps you wake up. You arent so much impressed by the teacher as by what you discover you actually know. Quacks and anesthetics 'put you under'; good situations and people wake you up. And the waking up is a very simple thing. No fireworks, no miracles.

There's a psychiatrist named Carol North who has a unique history: she had severe schizophrenia all through childhood into her early 20s. She fought the disease heroically, but was plagued by hallucinations and voices. She made it to medical school, but was on the verge of suicide by her second year. (The voices would instruct her to flunk her tests or would hound her to kill herself.) By a miracle, North was complete cured when a psychiatrist arranged for her to undergo renal dialysis--it was an experimental treatment. North was one of a handful of people for whom it cured her schizophrenia.

I mention her because North describes what happened to her after her second dialysis. She went home and fell asleep. The next morning, she woke up--and she awakened to perfect silence. No voices. No 'secret messages' vibrating from appliances. No faces or spectral presences haunting the room. It was pure, ordinary human life, with no heavy hidden meanings anywhere. Utterly ordinary, utterly peaceful--and the greatest gift she could have received. She was no longer getting 'special messages' from God. She'd become an ordinary human being--and loved it. (Allt this and more is in her memoir, Welcome Silence. Dr North is now a well regarded psychiatrist and specializes in trauma related issues.)

I mention Dr North's experience because she demonstrates that ordinary lucid consciousness is the greatest miracle of all--hallucinations are just distracting garbage. We wouldnt have been born in this body in this life, with our particular type of brain if we were not meant to have a particuar human consciousness. So why tamper with it, using chemicals or expensive, abusive weekend seminars?

Problem is, most of us are traumatized by the culture and we are used to being numb and dissociated. So we easily fall for crooks like BS and and various LGATs. The classic snake oil salesman's first crime is to con healthy people into believing they are ill, then to sell them a remedy that actually makes them sicker. Thats whats objectionable and thats why I am glad Ricks website and forum are available.

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It was pure, ordinary human life, with no heavy hidden meanings anywhere.

And this is probably where est and Landmark got their "technology" which they twisted into 'it's all meaningless."

When I think back to pre-naturopath and pre-Landmark days, I was pretty happy. The health problems I went to physicians for, I believed, were biochemical, physiological imbalances that, unfortunately, conventional medicine just did not know how to treat - for most women like me, it was birth control pills and perhaps antidepressants. This is why I gave alternative medicine.

There is a philosophy with many "holistic healers" that if a patient comes to them with something that they've had no luck treating conventionally, that there is an underlying hidden meaning for the problem. They pooh-pooh science, referring to Newton and the separation of spirit and body way back when. The therapy craze that began decades ago has also helped create people in perpetual search of answers. While this is not a bad thing, it's become a clinical condition. Every little upset or obstacle becomes a symptom, every headache an excuse for not doing something else.

The naturopath sucked me in - he seemed to be the one with both scientific and spiritual practice behind him. He was an excellent recruiter and I was surprised to hear he did not work for LE, but that would have meant commitment on his part. LE and other "self-improvement" seminars seem like the place to get anwers as well. Their "experts" try and disappear headaches, reduce traumatic experiences to a simple story, and then blame their particpants (more underlying hidden reasons) for not getting it.

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. We wouldnt have been born in this body in this life, with our particular type of brain if we were not meant to have a particuar human consciousness. So why tamper with it, using chemicals or expensive, abusive weekend seminars?

And this is where really screw with people. They DO tamper and then tell you basically the same thing - you're human. Everything we've blamed you for all weekend is okay.

The more I understand, the more I hate them.

conning basically healthy people into believing they are ill with something only the snake oil salesman can fix. Real healers will focus on YOUR strengths, no matter how ill you are, and try and teach you to activate those strengths and achieve some mastery in relation to your condition.

Crooks and cults will focus on your alleged weaknesses, no matter how healthy you are. If you're not confused, they make sure to find a way to confuse you, because your confusion empowers THEM and you stay stuck in their orbit.

I just glanced at the firfst part of the Thread on the Landmark Forum and I totally agree -- Landmark Education is evil, exploiting the weak and inhibiting free thinking. They pretend to help, but all they are after is more sales, and this is very blatant. Go to Church, stay away from Landmark Education for your own good.

Having participated in Landmark Forum and their Seminar, I can testify that Landmark Education is nothing but a blight on humanity. It is the lowest of the low. It's nothing but a pyramid scheme targeting the weak, and nothing but a sales, sales, sales, for the benefit of owners of Landmark Education. Thanks Rick for standing up to these scums of the earth.

Hi guys:
I made a post in this thread...

Psychosis after a Tony Robbins Seminar??

about how, in my view, a bunch of Landmark Lackeys have sortof highjacked the Tony Robbins webboard, and use it to very subtly (and not so subtly) promote the dreaded Landmark.
Maybe i should have posted that post in this thread, but regardless, please have a read, and let me know your opinions on this type of thing.
Thanks!
Coz

I just spent about 30 minutes reading all of these posts on here. It seems there is some intelligent reasoning and thought to most of the comments. Much of it is bullshit too.

I took the Landmark Forum in November of 2000. It was an incredible experience at the time... AND I can still say that it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life.

I believe it's important not to draw all of your conclusions about life from some seminar or "forum". BUT Landmark showed me many things. One big thing I learned was how to listen without clouding the message someone is trying to say with an attitude. We all do it though. If you are in sad mood.. everything around you seems sad. The fact is you choose your own possibilities... If you say to yourself "I'm creating the possibility of being happy".. and mean it (don't lie to yourself).... You will find that in a few weeks you'll look back on that comment and see that you actually did open up some opportunities to be happy. Much of what I learned at Landmark is awesome stuff.

Since the Forum I've been really open to so many possibilites in my life. Instead of being stuck in a life full of excuses and complaints I do my best to see through negativity. I truly believe that we are meant to learn and grow and not suppress. If there are people at Landmark, or teachers at a college university, church, or anywhere else who are suppressive people.. then yeah, stay the hell away from them. No school, or religion is perfect. Also, I will say that Landmark is definitely not a cult. I know there's been a-lot of talk about that on this board as well.

If you do the Landmark Forum go in there with an open mind, and draw from it what you can. Don't make it the end all be all.. or some quick fix to your problems. After seeing all these posts, I think that much of the complaints are very ignorant one's.

Go to the Forum and see for yourself. I recommend it to everyone.

P.S. Please note.. I am simply someone who took the forum. I don't claim to be some authority on what they teach.

P.S. P.S. I feel like laughing right now just imagining that some well meaning person (or jerk) is going to now take what I said and turn it around in this post. Please feel free to think what you want.. Just don't persuade me or others to fall into your negative way of thinking.

All the best,

Terrance

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Go to the Forum and see for yourself. I recommend it to everyone.

This is EXACTLY how Landmark recruits.
They encourage "suckers" to go down to the "free meeting", and then the Landmarkians go to work on you, running all of their techniques and patterns.

Do NOT go to the Forum.
No one needs that nonsense.
I prefer to KEEP my "critical thinking faculties" thank you very much.
Landmark is a disgusting scamola.
Have a nice day.

Coz

u were empowered in terror and it made
u feel better. thank u for posting

I'm reading about everyone telling their story -- but I'm looking for help. How can you talk to a person who is involved in landmark and get them to find themselves again. Over the last few days I have spent countless hours going around in circles and not getting anywhere. I need some real help here~!