Hi there Anon0820,
You posted so much stuff that is sort of peripheral to the whole issue of the abuse of Millionaire Mind that I wonder if you are for real, though I want to believe that you may be truly questioning this stuff. Why, though, do you continue to burden us with all this propaganda?

I can't respond to you privately because I haven't posted 10 posts yet.

Please tell us why you are putting all this stuff on this list because it tends to block dialog and sharing of ideas, etc, because you have to keep moving on to new pages and it is endless.

It would be better if you commented on this material, and quoted bits of it like previous members have done, give us your analysis and opinion. I can't possibly read everything you've posted.

I am pretty upset about what I know about Eker's program, which I learned too late. I also suspect that you lost your boyfriend to this stuff, much as I lost a friend to a cult several years ago and it is quite traumatic.

Please let us know a little more of your opinions and a little less text, please. It's just too overwhelming.

Maybe you could just send us the links (and I hope you didn't type all this out from an open book because that would be an incredible task.)

The post about this woman dealing with her separation is typical of what I didn't expect to find at this "training" but found (!) because it turns out to be that it is a therapizing forum, rather than a business training program. I can't believe I fell for it. You wouldn't believe how much I thought I knew and got duped...

Thanks, Ariadne

PS, I have to tell you that from what I know about these LGAT groups and other abusive groups/religions, etc, they have people stalking these open forums and discussion groups, and so it is healthy to actually question who the participant is and their motives. Sorry, but I have to be honest with you.

If you do a search on Google or Ask.com, you will find nothing criticizing Eker and I am sure he has his web lackeys taking care of that. I happened to know this Rick Ross website from other situations and looked and found you, only because I was aware of the site. It did not come up on a search.

If anyone knows how this can be done, that you can get rid of critical sites, please educate us here. I am confounded. Thanks again. A

ariadne - Thanks so much for replying.

I agree that there is so much stuff and as vague as it is, I've been trying to piece together what really happens in those camps. I am for real. I'm just an individual trying to get more information...more details because my ex boyfriend is hooked onto LGAT's. He went to the Warrior camp a couple of months ago.

I thought by posting all the things I found, I would find answers and share them. Also, I had hopes that maybe someone else would see something that I'm not and fill us in.

Quote

I am pretty upset about what I know about Eker's program, which I learned too late. I also suspect that you lost your boyfriend to this stuff, much as I lost a friend to a cult several years ago and it is quite traumatic.

I am sorry to hear of your loss too. :(

Could you please share with us some of the exercises that are performed in the camps? Could you please tell us why you are upset with Eker's practices. :?:

I agree with you that it is tough to find anything other than 'songs of praise' for Eker. With the vagueness of his website and descriptions of his seminars and camps, I believe this is just like any other LGAT - an unhealthy one where they break you down and bring you back up.

I've seen message boards where people speak of Predicament and 'The Talk' and Laws of Attraction jargon.

[i:33d52a1f0b]Bottom line... what REALLY happens at Eker's seminars and camps?[/i:33d52a1f0b]

[www.blogger.com]


This weblog is buried but I found it with the help of a friend. Eker's band have invaded it but there are still some useful descriptions of what goes on. Take a look.

A

ariadne - Thanks so much for the link. You're right. It does look like it's been tampered with...at least for the 'real' experiences.

You mentioned that you were involved with Eker's seminars / camps. I am totally interested and intrigued in hearing more about your experience.

How long ago did you attend? What made you leave or become aware that Eker's practices may not be 'okay'?

Could you share your experience? Why / how did you attend? Did someone recommend that you go?

Did you do things - the exercises that were 'outside your comfort zone'? If so, can you give us an example of them?


These LGAT's seem to focus on the same type of structure... break you down, then bring you back up... and they call it a breakthrough. :shock:

I went to Warrior Training back in 1999 when Harv was just getting started in his seminar business. I think it was the second or third Warrior Camp he did, and I also attended a monthly seminar series that he spoke at as well for about one year.

I didn't sign a confidentiality agreement, although they probably don't want people putting out spoilers, but I don't think that the effect of any of the processes would be diluted by prior knowledge of what's going on.

Every morning began with Ecstatic Dancing, which was an absolutely wonderful experience - I subsequently bought a video by the creator of Ecstatic Dance (Gabrielle Roth), called The Wave, but it seemed more effective when done with a facilitator, although it's a solo type of dance. I experienced my one and only "divine experience" in my life during the dance, (BTW, I am also an atheist) it was awesome.

The group was split into four smaller groups, and everyone rotated activities on a daily basis. The activities were as follows:
1. We did a very major hike, it was fairly challenging.
2. Sweat lodge - this is an AWESOME experience!
3. Martial arts type session taught by Dawn Callan, of "Awakening the Warrior Within."
4. A leadership type of training that is usually done with corporate clientele where you jump from poles and do other fear-blasting activities.

The entire group also did a firewalk, as well as lots of other activities such as drums, singing, Harv gave talks, etc...

It only cost $500 - for a week of activities such as they were, I considered it an excellent deal (considering the price of the shore excursions on the cruise I just went on :-)

I think that there was some group dynamics going on that I have seen in other groups (I did Landmark this summer - now THAT's probably a cult!) I always feel disassociated from the group - an observer, like an anthropologist observing a bizarre culture.

I think this camp was good for some of the new-agey / flaky people that were there because they are often very timid people, but maybe because they couldn't (wouldn't) complete a lot of the activities, it just reinforces that they can be ineffectual.

Harv has a saying that will get on your nerves after awhile - "How you do anything is how you do everything" - I think that's stolen from Cheri Huber (does that mean that Harv steals every concept from other authors?, hmmm...) :lol:
He also talks a lot (as they did at Landmark, albeit using different language) about how we get invested in our "stories" - that is so absolutely true, and I appreciate being reminded of that once in awhile, when I'm more invested in being right than being happy.

In all, it was a very good experience, and I would definitely go again. I wouldn't say it was life changing, but it was definitely one step forward, rather than one step back.

Feel free to email me if you have any questions, I kept a journal at the time and wrote about what we did every day.

Sounds like another mass marathon training program.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Such programs do seem to have inherent problems regarding their structure and dynamics.

According to the linked paper above there are 13 liabilities of most mass marathon training sessions:

They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.


They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.


They lack clearly defined responsibility.


They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.


They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.


They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.


They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.


They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.


They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.


They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.


They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.


They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.


They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.

And such groups were determined to be dangerous when:

Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.


Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.


Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.


Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."

This is where my confusion lies.

How does fire walking, hiking and dancing help with your finances?

How does Native American spirituality help?

Isn't Harv Eker supposed to be an 'expert' on finances?

Aren't these seminars supposed to guide you in financing your money?


Am I being naive here? :shock: :?:

Hi Anon0820,
That is exactly the point. None of this stuff has anything to do with business or making money. It is a "bait and switch" technique, the oldest marketing tool in the book. They "bait" you in with the pretense of teaching you how to become financially successful and then "switch" to mind control and "groupthink" mode that is tinged with religiousity, magical thinking, and ideas of reference (like psychotic people get!) to get you to do as they say; buy more, more, more! Eventually some will leave and others will get suckered into being on the staff or administration where they sink further into the "cult."

Additionally, they create a "pseudocommunity" for the lonely, those lacking confidence, those with all kinds of mental health problems of different degrees and those who have been too sheltered from life to recognize a really good scam.

They are also very inviting to the unaware who just trust too easily, and who actually have the smarts to realize rather quickly that they have been duped (like me.)
A

There are exercises that 'specialize' in [b:63d9380a96]Psych-K [/b:63d9380a96][/color:63d9380a96]at the Warrior camp.

Someone posted information about this from another post.
[board.culteducation.com]

[b:63d9380a96][i:63d9380a96]Anyone know more about this? [/i:63d9380a96][/b:63d9380a96] :?:

In my opion Enlightened Warrior Camp uses LGAT in a very big way. I attended and came home a very different person.

I signed up to improve my confidence in presentation etc. and came back fearless (I mean fearless) of everything. I allowed myself to be brainwashed by Harvey Ekar's camp. Were other's brainwashed, I can't answer as I have cut off ties to any contacts made that week. (They were very lovely people. The point is it isn't about them or myself, it is about the method used by PP (Peak Potentials) to deliver their content).

We all signed a waver form, and promised not to mention anything about the camp.

I left to go to the camp as a left brain thinking human being, and came home as a right brain person, incapeable of doing basic routine things that I did before I left.

People didn't recognize me. I had been exposed to 10 years of psychotherapy in a 1 week intensive camp. Boy was it intensive, including sleep deprivation, the use of yoga/meditation to empty our minds, and "Leader Control" by the moderator to bring home Harvey's messages.

Normally I go to a conference and hear 10 - 20 good things, maybe implement 1 or 2 and put the others on the shelf and assess them over time.

During this camp, somehow control of what I accepted got passed from me to the moderator. I know this is hard to believe, but this is what happened.

As I mentioned I got what I payed for and more. The combination of emptying the mind (abuse of the great activities of Yoga and Meditation), sleep deprivation (a couple hours of restless sleep each night), being cut off from the outside world (remote location with a locked gate- I realize this when I was leaving), and the use of some weird things like:
Observing a person in our group be attacked (first part of a staged rape)
Trying to smother people and have them try to smother me
Choking other people and having them choke me (some people passed out)
Chanting and drumming
I feel by the end of the week we abused several Native rituals led by our moderator

What happened when I got home?
My family was astute enough to realize what had happened and they helped educate me on what had happened to my brain. From there I spent lots of time with family and friends (time with the ones I love).

I also committed to getting back to where I was before this nightmare happened. Now that I am back there, I can now assess the 30 things I learned, use a few today and over the rest of my life assess the other and take them or leave them.

The people that know me can't believe this happened to me of all people. In the end I found a website with a questionaire on how susceptible you are to LGAT, and I answered yes to all 9 questions (3 or more means you are vulnerable).


[www.caic.org.au]

In my journey through this life, I never try to be the victim, and I am always in control of my own destiny. In this case I lost that control and was a victim of Peak Potential's Enlightened Warrior Camp LGAT approach.

If you know somebody in this situation, get education on how to help them.

This is not an easy article to write, but it is important, as if I knew this before Millionaire Mind Intensive I would not have even gone to it, so hopefully others will gain from my journey.


Below is a website that I found helpful to figure out what happened to me.

[www.caic.org.au]