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Impacted
and Ward's watermelon that you can suck the life out of then spit on the ground just like they do to Ward and did to Terri and JJ . . .
--Ed
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Espiritu
ExImpact -
I think it's entirely possible for me to feel this way, and also feel that some of the methods used (gestalt techniques, meditation, confrontation) are not, in and of themselves, harmful. I find myself saying "don't blame the process or system, blame the people" for not just Impact, but for many things in this world.
***If a process or system is consistently used as a tool of abuse and manipulation, shouldn't it be held up to strict scrutiny? Good therapists who treat cult victims encourage them to go beyond what was wrong with the cult they just left and learn about the psychology of persuasion and influence so they can learn to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Impact is just another fucking cult. Literally.
Yes, there are terrible things happening in this world. I don't really see these things as evidence that different people's attempts to promote healing and peace are not working. When I say different people, I mean that thousands of people around the world are trying to do the same thing as Impact "thinks" they are the only ones doing. The biggest problem with Impact is that the REAL guiding principle seems to be one of greed and monetary gain, with an added bonus of controlling people. Both the need to possess monetarily and mentally, all that people have, stems from a deep seated fear of not having. So, by virtue of what they are preaching - this is the reality the continue to manifest (one of not having and therefore, creating a continual need to have more). This is where these individuals are not living their message - and in the process they are damaging lives left and right, without caring. But, it doesn't make the message wrong.
***There is a fundamental disconnect in your reasoning that suggests you are still buying into the Impact line. You can't separate the dishonest and unethical motive for monetary gain from the message. It's like those Impacted/mind-fucked people who deny Joseph Smith was a prophet, believe he was a con man, yet still believe the Book of Mormon was inspired by God. They don't believe he translated ancient writings from gold plates but they do believe that Mormon and Moroni were real people who lived and continue to provide them with spiritual guidance. This is not harmless, it is insane. And the fact that thousands or even millions of people believe in a certain "truth" (i.e. the world is flat) or engage in a certain activity (driving drunk) does not make it true or smart.
There's a group that promotes meditation on a peaceful world every day at 11:11. It encourages all people who are on this list to focus and generate thoughts of peace, healing, etc. This is a free thing (obviously) and doesn't involve any mind control. In my opinion, this is a good and powerful force for creating a better world. Like I stated before, Impact has borrowed ideas that have positive merit and are not just ways to suck your soul/mind dry, and then warped them with their true intentions.
***What evidence do you have that this collective meditation technique is a "good and powerful force for creating a better world"? None.
It's akin to prayer. There's research that documents that the power of prayer is a real thing. Prayer, essentially, is made up of thoughts that are intentional, directed and positive. Affirmations have been proven effective in therapy (treatment of increasing self esteem, decreasing anxiety and depression). Just because they were used in Impact by non-professionals doesn't make them "mind control".
***I am unaware of any reputable scientific studies or research suggesting "that the power of prayer is a real thing." Please cite your sources. That positive thinking is a motivating quality is a matter of common sense that is common to the human condition in general and is not attributable to any spiritual or religious belief. Spiritual and/or religious systems (and LGATs) steal ideas from smart innovative people then claim them for their own. Further, the damage Impact causes as fosters co-dependent relationships and encourages behaviors symptomatic of passive aggressive personality disorder is far outweighed by any positive thinking gimmicks it throws in for good measure that have been pirated from other sources.
I guess all I am trying to say is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I encourage you not to discount the value of certain things that were brought up or used in Impact because of your Impact experience. If, for any reason, that these ideas are not exclusively Impact.
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jk.genesisQuote
Espiritu
ExImpact -
I think it's entirely possible for me to feel this way, and also feel that some of the methods used (gestalt techniques, meditation, confrontation) are not, in and of themselves, harmful. I find myself saying "don't blame the process or system, blame the people" for not just Impact, but for many things in this world.
***If a process or system is consistently used as a tool of abuse and manipulation, shouldn't it be held up to strict scrutiny? Good therapists who treat cult victims encourage them to go beyond what was wrong with the cult they just left and learn about the psychology of persuasion and influence so they can learn to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Impact is just another fucking cult. Literally.
When i refer to the "process" I am talking about techniques used - the ones i've referenced in parenthesis. These are legit techniques, that when used properly can help people. I am not advocating for the system of paying for implementation of said techniques by un-skilled, self serving individuals. The process, for example, of beating on the chairs or using a person in the group as a symbolic reference for a family member, etc. that a person has an unresolved issue with is NOT a bad thing. My mom said that this process helped her to let go of anger she held against my father, who was abusive. A more tame example of "don't blame the system" would be something like...when people think welfare is jacked up because so many people take advantage of it...or that politics are corrupt - it's not the system, it's the people within it who are acting in a selfish way who leave that impression
Yes, there are terrible things happening in this world. I don't really see these things as evidence that different people's attempts to promote healing and peace are not working. When I say different people, I mean that thousands of people around the world are trying to do the same thing as Impact "thinks" they are the only ones doing. The biggest problem with Impact is that the REAL guiding principle seems to be one of greed and monetary gain, with an added bonus of controlling people. Both the need to possess monetarily and mentally, all that people have, stems from a deep seated fear of not having. So, by virtue of what they are preaching - this is the reality the continue to manifest (one of not having and therefore, creating a continual need to have more). This is where these individuals are not living their message - and in the process they are damaging lives left and right, without caring. But, it doesn't make the message wrong.
***There is a fundamental disconnect in your reasoning that suggests you are still buying into the Impact line. You can't separate the dishonest and unethical motive for monetary gain from the message.
Why can't I? They are cleary using a message that's appealing to people...we are all one, we are all powerful, we can create peace....these are bad messages in your opinion? Might it be possible that I see beyond all of the smoke and mirrors of the impact people and recognize something that might be worthwhile? The fact that this message is a selling feature to lure people in and rape them mentally and monetarily does not negate the message.
It's like those Impacted/mind-fucked people who deny Joseph Smith was a prophet, believe he was a con man, yet still believe the Book of Mormon was inspired by God. They don't believe he translated ancient writings from gold plates but they do believe that Mormon and Moroni were real people who lived and continue to provide them with spiritual guidance. This is not harmless, it is insane.
Yeah, I agree that doesn't make sense, and it's hippocritical. I don't ascribe to any organized religion for that reason...it's full of contradictions and multiple interpretations to push agendas of men
And the fact that thousands or even millions of people believe in a certain "truth" (i.e. the world is flat) or engage in a certain activity (driving drunk) does not make it true or smart.
I hardly think ascribing to the idea that world peace is possible as the same thing as the world being flat or drunk driving. By the way...the world has been proven not to be flat (whoops, am i stating the obvious again?) and drunk drivers suffer consequences and eventually learn from their mistakes...or die of alcoholism
There's a group that promotes meditation on a peaceful world every day at 11:11. It encourages all people who are on this list to focus and generate thoughts of peace, healing, etc. This is a free thing (obviously) and doesn't involve any mind control. In my opinion, this is a good and powerful force for creating a better world. Like I stated before, Impact has borrowed ideas that have positive merit and are not just ways to suck your soul/mind dry, and then warped them with their true intentions.
***What evidence do you have that this collective meditation technique is a "good and powerful force for creating a better world"? None.
I don't have evidence. Did I say that I did? I will look for some, though. All I can say is it sure is doing more good that wallowing around in my anger, bitterness and pain thinking about how this whole world has gone to crap....I happen to think our thoughts create reality - but you might think me looney for that.
It's akin to prayer. There's research that documents that the power of prayer is a real thing. Prayer, essentially, is made up of thoughts that are intentional, directed and positive. Affirmations have been proven effective in therapy (treatment of increasing self esteem, decreasing anxiety and depression). Just because they were used in Impact by non-professionals doesn't make them "mind control".
***I am unaware of any reputable scientific studies or research suggesting "that the power of prayer is a real thing." Please cite your sources.
umm how about all the people sitting around in churches praying? actually, i will do some research on this and get back to you, because there have been studies
That positive thinking is a motivating quality is a matter of common sense that is common to the human condition in general and is not attributable to any spiritual or religious belief. Spiritual and/or religious systems (and LGATs) steal ideas from smart innovative people then claim them for their own.
I'm sorry...are you saying you have to be smart and innovative to think positively? Or, that it's just common sense to do so. If it were really common sense, then there would be far less depressed people in the world. Oh, and there wouldn't be a need for cognitive behavioral therapy.
Further, the damage Impact causes as fosters co-dependent relationships and encourages behaviors symptomatic of passive aggressive personality disorder is far outweighed by any positive thinking gimmicks it throws in for good measure that have been pirated from other sources.
Ok, I left Impact and did not become co-dependent on them. Instead, I am 20 yrs married to my husband who didn't go through the training. I hold a Masters degree in counseling and am a very positive person...with a happy life.
I guess all I am trying to say is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I encourage you not to discount the value of certain things that were brought up or used in Impact because of your Impact experience. If, for any reason, that these ideas are not exclusively Impact.
***What baby?
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formerimpactgrad
Hi Espiritu, welcome to the thread. For some reason I stopped getting email notifications of new posts on the thread otherwise I would have responded more quickly.
Hi former. Thanks for the welcome...
I think its fair to say that some forms of new age meditation/practices are less harmful than others. I have even known people who seem to have experienced long term benefits from engaging in structured new age activities. That being said, Impact is guided by a group of people who exhibit sociopathic behaviour that allows them to think they are above their followers (While in prison Ted Bundy discussed his role as a "predator" and how it made him more than human, in my opinion much of what goes on at Impact is motivated by a similar desire for power).
I couldn't agree more. When I have referred in previous posts the the "process", I guess what I am really referring to are the practices that these sociopaths have stolen. There is NO MERIT to a cult - which, I believe Impact is. I have always had issue with the idea that this is somehow "secret" information that only a "selected group led by by charismatic leader" can guide you to. That's balloney!!
The issue that I have with the movement as a whole is that because "Life Coaching" is so poorly regulated it seems to attract con-artists much more easily than other fields that have more barriers to entry. I could go and start a training tomorrow and my business plan would be successful as long as I kept getting people through the door because there is no quality control built in to ensure that I am actually doing more than simple mental conditioning. If I call myself a "Life Coach" or "Personal Improvement Trainer" my lack of credentials, life experience and education is a non-issue. In fact, my lack of these attributes may even be a benefit because I could make up an entire history about myself that would be extremely difficult to verify (which is exactly what Hans and Sally have done).
This is where it lies with us, the consumer...or seeker...of personal "training". Thank God there is a place like this forum where individuals can become familiar with what really goes on in this "training"
Due to the alarming lack of structure in the movement I have a hard time believing that the good that is done in these retreats/trainings outweighs the bad. Financial markets used to allow investment houses called "bucket shops" to operate unregulated. These bucket shops provided a kind of investment opportunity to the masses while at the same time maintaining relationships with many company insiders (since insider trading was legal at this time). These relationships allowed the bucket shops to enter into contracts with their patrons, then contact insiders and make stocks go crazy on command thus robbing the patron's of their invested capital. Eventually the government began to create trading laws to make the market much more equitable but it took an extreme amount of regulation and even the outright ban of certain kinds of companies. I think the new age industry requires similar extreme action before its truly fit for human consumption.
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Espiritu
This is where it lies with us, the consumer...or seeker...of personal "training". Thank God there is a place like this forum where individuals can become familiar with what really goes on in this "training"
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Espiritu
I hear what you are saying about the good outweighing the bad. I suspect that my postings about what I actually gained (through my own accord) while attending Impact is seen as some kind of "see, they really did do good things" type of justification or encouragement to attend. It's not meant to be this. Instead, it's more of a "See, it's possible to move on from this experience without being totally damaged." I encourage anyone who wants to experience personal growth to do their OWN reading, attend SMALL groups run by a PROFESSIONAL therapist and follow up with individual therapy.I am not sure if New Age ideas/philosophies can be regulated any more than churches or organized religions can, though - since they are mostly about spirituality