Published earlier on this thread has been an item from the LDS Church’s Bulletin on self-awareness groups. I do not recall being published here though a letter to Hans Berger from F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency of the Church. The response from Watson to Berger is self-explanatory when you consider the following introductory remarks provided by Impact just above the letter on handouts given curious potential Quest trainees. The following is taken from that handout:





“As mentioned earlier we agree with the stand of caution that the LDS Church is advocating because it is also our direct experience that there are dangerous trainings being conducted throughout the world. Shortly after the LDS Church issued the first bulletin the founder of Impact Trainings contacted the First Presidency of the LDS Church to supply them with detailed information concerning the Impact Trainings.

Here is the response from the First Presidency: “

(Letterhead of the Church)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Office of the First Presidency
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

March 14, 1990




Hans J. Berger, President
Impact Training Corporation
415 Bearcat Drive (2240 South 360 West)
Salt Lake City, UT 84115

Dear Brother Berger:

I have been asked to acknowledge your letter of March 11, 1990, to the First Presidency.

The Church’s Bulletin item on self-awareness groups offers general information for the use of priesthood leaders and members of their wards and stakes. No groups were mentioned by name in the item. It is the responsibility of each member to educate himself about such matters so he can make an informed judgement whether to associate with such a group, and whether the group’s practices and procedures meet his standards.

In view of the above, it would not be feasible to arrange for you to meet with the First Presidency about your particular business.

I also have been asked to extend best wishes to you, and to advise you that a copy of this response has been forwarded to your stake president for his information.

Sincerely yours,

/s/

F. Michael Watson
Secretary to the First Presidency



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The ball is clearly placed in the court of the local Church leaders in dealing with this issue. There have been many pronouncements by general authorities of the Church on heresy, apostacy, new age religion etc. that predate Impact Trainings. You can review those by going to
www.lds.org and search the Church literature on these words such as heresy, apostacy, new age religion etc.

Surely it is well for "each member to educate himself about such matters." I would add that non-members and former-members would do equally well to educate themselves about such matters. Many have done just that and their contributions are like gold to this forum. Thank you all.

Hopeful



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 05:57AM by Hopeful Soul.

LOL, Hans' Stake President. If they knew his private spiritual practices and rituals, what he says in private about the church and what he has done to it's trainee members, they would excommunicate and black list him and anyone else involved with Impact. In fact, if they would read this they WOULD know. Maybe they have and they just don't give a damn...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2008 12:19AM by exImpact.

They do give a huge damn. Local authorities just choose to "fail to recommend" rather than damn Impact. This has to do with the 11th Article of Faith, allowing agency and freedom of religion in large part. The result is to create a neat little ecological niche of sorts where the parasite (Impact) draws enrollees from the host (LDS Church) in a way that is somewhat unique to the Salt Lake Valley. A meaning of "niche" is a habitat supplying the factors necessary for the existence of an organism or species. The host is not being sufficiently bothered by the parasite to take drastic action. The parasite is not growing or spreading rapidly. In the Church literature there is the analogy of the caravan. Beasts may pester and nip at the heals of the camels, but the caravan moves on with minor disruption.

The comforting truth is that LDS doctrine is antithethical to the core premises of Impact Trainings. Patient illumination of Impact's true nature will eventually cause the parasite to wither. Impact heresy on the mission and role of Christ clearly fosters apostacy of LDS members in spite of the truthiness Impact puts out. This is Impact's fatal flaw when it comes to obtaining any endorsement from the Church and members free of the influence of the "Process."

Hopeful



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2008 01:14PM by Hopeful Soul.

The church's passive damn is worth nothing. Besides, believing in a heresy compromises any claim to belief in doctrine or fealty to covenants. THAT fact makes your quoted article of faith a moot point and should provoke the brethren to take action. Lies of omission abound in the LDS-TIT/Life mastery trainee(er)'s testimony. Impact pumps out hypocrites like there is no tomorrow, LDS or no.

All I can say about damning Impact is "and thus it is."

I have been looking at some info that I found on another RR thread titled "The Secret, The Movie." You can look at the substance of the item on the link to yutube.com or just google on "David Shirmer Secret exposed." It seems that Australian TV did a series last year exposing Shirmer, the only Austrailian to appear in the movie, as a mega-con-man. Impact's "All Grads Training 2007" was built around the Law of Attraction/The Secret. Bob Proctor, another star of the movie, has distanced himself (too late I'm sure) from Shirmer, who will probably find his world soon constricted to a white collar crime prison/resort for defrauding investors. Proctor looks and talks a lot like Hans Berger, but even if they are not related they are birds of a feather to promote such an abomination as The Secret Law of Attraction, which is no longer even much of a secret. Incidentally, Shirmer is the guy in the movie who got all the checks in the mail just by thinking about that.

I could say that "Facts are stuborn things," but I admit that is not my original idea.

Hopeful



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2008 07:00AM by Hopeful Soul.

Quote
exImpact
I have a question for all of you regulars (and all of you silent observers): After leaving for good, did your activity with the trainings, more specifically with the TIT (now the Life Mastery Trainings) mess with your spirituality?)

I'm answering ex's question embarrassingly late, but I think it's a very interesting one, so better late than never, I guess. I've surmised that a sudden change in one's spirituality is a very common side-effect from attending any of the trainings, regardless of the person's acceptance or rejection of Impact's ideas.
The person who was responsible for introducing impact to my friend (who in turn introduced it to me) was LDS before attending impact. She had returned from an LDS mission not too long before attending Quest and went through all the trainings through Lift-off. During, or shortly after completing the trainings she left the Mormon church, and is now primarily involved in new-age religious mediums (ie. tarot cards, quantum touch, iridology, etc.)
The friend who originally introduced me to Impact is also LDS (well, we are in Utah, right?) She dealt with the discrepancies between the LDS and Impatian doctrines by bending Impact's teachings to her LDS beliefs. When the doctrines finally grew so far apart that she could no longer reconcile them, she choose her LDS faith and cut off all ties with impact.
I grew up in the LDS faith, and was an active member most of my life. In the 2 years before attending Quest, I would call myself a "closet agnostic-leaning" Mormon. I noticed the differences between Impact and LDS teachings fairly quickly after quest was over, and was shocked to see how easily I had believed while in the training that they were compatible. I was even more stunned at the myriad of other ridiculous philosophies I had accepted while attending, and horrified at how their effective their mind control techniques really were as I witnessed people in my group wholly embrace Impact's dogma. I recalled them tearily "bearing testimony" about the truth behind all that impact had taught them, and how good it made them feel. They said they knew it was true with complete conviction, yet I absolutely knew that what impact taught was dangerous, cultish, and wrong. These testmonies were eerily similar to the religious testimonies I had heard throughout my life as a Mormon. I had previously thought that a testimony bourn with such emotion and conviction only came from someone who was speaking real truth, and that they must have had the "spirit of God" burning in them to speak in such a way. I had also heard so many people say that they "knew" that impact's teachings were right because they could feel that it was true in their "hearts". Again, eerily similar to what LDS members' had say about their religion. As I researched about the various techniques impact used to get such a stranglehold over people's convictions, I noticed more similarities between these techniques and the ones that many spiritual organizations use. There were many more correlations and realizations that I came to, but you get the idea. Eventually I speculated that I didn't know anything about my religious beliefs, and that I had simply "gone through the motions". I had previously felt guilty if I began to question or explore my religion in depth. The social pressure from family to stay faithful was also a component. I had repeated mormon cliches, trite phrases, and "faith promoting" urban legends. I believed because I was supposed to, because my parents did, because my husband did, because my friends did, etc. Essentially, I was a member of "the cult of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints", instead of a church.
I deconstructed my beliefs one by one. I started reading religious-critical literature and now disregarded the guilt I felt when reading it. I no longer trusted my feelings or instincts to be a barometer of truth, because I had felt and seen how easy it was for feelings to mislead. I started reading and analyzing the Book of Mormon (I'd never actually read it from cover to cover.) I started asking other's how they came to believe in each of their respective religions. Most said that it "felt right or good" to them. I looked into scientific explanations for religious phenomena or assertions. I told myself that I would no longer take anyone else's word for it and I wanted to figure out what I believed for myself. (This also spread out to other things, as well. ie. politics, life philosophy, etc). I realized that the way I was raised had a lot to do with my previous ideas about religion.
Eventually, I started to pick out the ways in which religion, school, and other institutions taught or operated, were different from brainwashing or cults like impact. I found that even if a particular organization or belief was not a cult or cultish, that if someone were to treat it as a cult, they could still be brainwashed into it. Reality came back into focus. I would even say that reality came into a sharper focus than it had ever been to me before, because I was trying to free myself of my delusions. However, I still questioned the most fundamental tenets of religion: the existence of God. I wasn't sure if I would ever be able to answer that question, since I didn't trust my feelings. At this point I was an atheist-leaning agnostic.
I continued searching and reading, praying, analyzing. Eventually, I got an answer that I was satisfied with, and I have allowed spirituality and religion back into my life. Of course, my religiousosity is different than it was before. I still have many unanswered questions, questions that I will continue to ask, and hopefully, eventually find answers. I have had some beliefs or ideas that haven't held up through this re-evaluation of mine. I also have had some beliefs that have, and have picked up new ones along the way, as well. Although it is a bit scary to put my beliefs through such a test, I am glad that I did and do. I am no longer a sheep.
I must clarify, though, I, in no way credit impact for the good things that have come out of my experience, just as I would never credit an abuser with any strengths gained from overcoming the experience of abuse. In reality, I learned and grew in spite of impact.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2008 03:08PM by army-of-me.

Quote
army-of-me
I, in no way credit impact for the good things that have come out of my experience, just as I would never credit an abuser with any strengths gained from overcoming the experience of abuse. In reality, I learned and grew in spite of impact.

I think from the moment of birth I was an agnostic-leaning Mormon :). Impact's madness kicked me so far through the agnostic uprights, I now see every appeal to religious feeling as cultish. What was it that Lisa Simpson said? "I made a graph which shows that as knowledge increases, happiness decreases. I make allot of graphs."

As for your line I quoted army, it's my point exactly. Even still, I have shadows of Impacts programming. Sitting in class I realized I was reacting to the professor/students and thinking in ways that were similar to my behavior I used to exhibit in the training room. I had to furiously get a grip.

On a lighter note, I will occasionally bump into a TIT grad I used to know, and I am happy to report that I haven't had ONE normal encounter. It is like talking to aliens, not the big black acid lizards, but more like Mork if he wasn't funny. Wait...was he funny?

>> I would never credit an abuser with any strengths gained from overcoming the experience of abuse. <<

Amen to this!

Impacted (and Great Life and all the others that I've seen, heard, read about) teach exactly the opposite.

Not only should you give them credit, you should also:

1) Be grateful to them for the lessons

2) Recognize that the abuser is actually your best friend in the world

3) The abuser is really motivated by love for you (on the "higher" planes)

4) The abuser loves you more than those who treat you with kindness -- more than those with whom you have stable relationships

5) The greatest abuser of all is Satan . . . (who is the "Angel of Light.")

6) Satan is really greater than Christ because he was willing to play a role for our learning that gathered him no glorification. We should be "grateful" to him as he is the biggest "abuser" of all . . .

Eventually it's impossible to have any meaningful discussion with these people because words start to mean nothing . . .

But following this logic through, as Hans and Sally have . . .

So Hans, in order to show is love for you, really does need to "borrow" all your money, never keep his word about paying you back, because this will generate the "perfect" lessons for you, because he loves you, more than you can ever know, and even more than he loves sitting on a beach laughing behind your back at you . . .

BTW: I hear Sally now has "love" for the Great Life Foundation, no longer sending affirmations there that they all die horrible deaths (except for Bruce Soloman who she still hope will choke to death on the after effects of Agent Orange) because:

"Great Life keeps all those @$$holes (like Jayson Orvis and the Jubacks) from trying to weedle their way back in here every few years."

Gotta love her unconditional love and light and forgiveness . . .

I also heard from a friend there she was laughing around the office sharing a copy of Jayson's post here saying NOTHING on the GLF website was a "promise." (If not a "promise," if words aren't "giving one's word" then they are lies.) Gotta admit, I'm in alignment with her on THAT.


--Ed

You know after reading 'eds' message it makes me a bit nervous. Impact seems to keep those who have been abused in the state of looking up to the abuser and not knowing where to turn without them. That is why they continue taking the name-calling, making fun, and yelling.

It seems that it may be a 'safe' place for abusers and molesters to stay because they get a pat on the back and are told they taught someone a lesson. Unfortunately some of them keep 'teaching' all the while thinking they are doing what they're 'meant' to do in the grand plan. Many of them need real counseling and therapy to ever get past those behaviors. I don't feel their needs are being met.

Though I am sure of the possibility of such predators lurking in the Impact wings, I am SURE that this specific facet of Impact's teachings promotes sexual indiscretion and infidelity. They teach being your word, but only so far as you are in alignment with your purpose. What if you aren't "meant" to be with your wife? What if your Bishop has no real spiritual authority over you, so you don't have to tell him about the sexual experience you were "inspired" to have?

What is scary is that some trainees believe everyone in their quest "family" has disclosed all of their personal "history" and is telling the "truth". Otherwise, wouldn't the trainer have kicked them out a long time ago? Your Summit or Lift-Off buddy could be the nastiest of liars, and how would you know it? Your assigned staff coach or co-staff member could be trolling for his/her (yep, saw women do it too) next bed-mate. I saw incredibly horrible people slip through the cracks. I have been not just nervous since leaving, but out-of-my-mind totally brain-fried scared for the trainees and their families. Especially the parents of the kids who take the junior trainings. God help them...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2008 07:44AM by exImpact.