I wish I could tell you my story but it's just not safe.

Abuser Status in Impact Doctrine

From second hand smoke emitted by mastery level Impactian/Berger adherants I gather that this doctrine says that God is so kind and merciful that he will not permit any of his children to be lost, no matter how evil they are. This is heretical to main line Christianity and especially to LDS doctrine. Impactian logic/doctrine has no room for repentance because they seem to believe that we are already Gods and that Christ had no special powers of atonement that we do not all posess.

The New Testament has this statement of Christ in Matthew 18:6-7--But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in he depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offences cometh!

Brother Berger would do well to read and take heed of Christ's statement here. I don't know if Sally could be called Sister Berger since I'm not clear about her LDS membership, if any. Hans at least was an LDS member in 1990, when the secretary to the First Presidency of the Church called him "Brother Berger." Well, the Bergers and all other abusers still have the possibility of repentance, but only if they reject their own apostate doctrine and believe in the atonement of Christ. How's that for a Catch-22?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2008 11:25PM by Hopeful Soul.

P.S.

Matthew 18 has a lot of good stuff. The intro (LDS version of course) has the following: "How we are to treat our offending betheren --The Son of Man came to save that which was lost--All of the Twelve receive the keys of the kingdom--Why we should forgive." Then verse 18 says: "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother."

So if Hans would join this forum as Hans Berger, those offended could P.M. him in compliance with the above.

It has been awhile since I've been on the forum but its nice to know that Hopeful Soul is still proselytizing with a complete lack of objectivity. I think I would have had a hard time sleeping tonight if I had read something rooted in actual thought.

I completely agree that Impact provides a safe haven for the abusers. The idea that a person who is prone to sexual indiscretion should be encouraged to "Follow their Spirit" is completely insane. I knew several staff members who cheated on their spouses with vulnerable trainees. Impact's course of action was to get rid of the staff members and vilify them. While the adulterous staff members definitely deserved to be vilified, it was incredibly hypocritical of Impact to be the ones to do it since the staff members universally insisted that they were just "Living their Training". Until the sexual line was crossed these people, without exception, were leaders in the group who everyone else looked up to. The bottom line is that Impact creates an environment where it is safe for certain types of individuals to behave in ways that destroy families. Impact empowers these people until they become liabilities at which point they are ostracized and tossed out the door.

I agree.

Love and light to everyone but this throwing around of LDS religion doesn't work for me since I have left. Throwing around religion to me is the same as the Berger's throwing around their 'religion'.

What of the staff members who didn't have to leave and the people who they used did?

I promise I know how to speak English. Apparently, I don't know how to type English and think at the same time.:)

I mean I have heard of staff favorites who manipulated vulnerable people . They actually got to stay in the training and the others were kicked out.

I think talking about religion is OK as long as we are descriptively discussing Impacts religious and cult practices and how they may effect the religious beliefs of trainees, both past and present. But making prescriptive claims about what someone ought or ought not do based on your own religious practices and beliefs or "preaching/proselytizing" is against the the board rules. Am I right?

Dazed, I think Impact only condones certain types of manipulations, and those acceptable manipulations are anything that doesn't threaten their bottom line ($$$$$$$). What turns trainees off, turns them off. I mean, as the groups get bigger, they tolerate less and less as they try to appeal to more and more. Thats how they (we) stayed in control.

I am new to this forum so I'm probably asking questions that have already been asked, but will asked them anyway.

Some questions:

1. During the "quest" training is there any other physical contact besides hugging and hand holding going on?

2. During the "quest" training do you have to disclose personal experiences or "deep dark secrets" to more than just one person. Do you tell the whole group your intermost experiences?

3. Why is everyone completely feeling horrible after the 2nd day of quest training, and then two days later at graduation acting like they are on some major "happy high" and want to sign up for the next stage?

4. Is it healthy to date someone who is way into impact training and going into the trainer program when the other person went through quest training and decided not to continue?
In other words do the trainers in training keep their views to themselves and not continue trying to recruit someone who does not want to be part of impact training?

5. Has anyone tried to write to their state representatives to get stricter laws in Utah to get rid of organizations like impact training? Besides writing to state legislature representatives, filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, is there anything else we can do to make the public aware of the danagers/waste of money from impact training?

6. Also, besides Robert Paisola are there any other know sex offenders that have worked at impact training?

Answers to these questions would be much appreciated as I have not been through any of the trainings, but know several people who have.

I will answer your questions to the best of my abilities, honestly and without exaggeration:

1. No, not officially.

2. You do not "have" to but you are encouraged to. In the trainings honesty and self disclosure are encouraged in order for the training to "work". Being unwilling to do so can put the trainee on the spot and make them subject to humiliation, ridicule and punishment. At one point during the trainings, trainees are asked to close their eyes while the staff members (save the trainers and possibly the staff captain) leave the room. They are then asked personal questions, ex. "Have you ever been sexually abused, molested etc." or "Do you have an STD or have had premarital sex?" or “Are you homosexual?” and so on. If their answer is yes, they are asked to raise their hands and their admissions are recorded. The reasons for these questions and recordings of their answers are not disclosed to the trainees before or after the process. My understanding was that these results were taken in order to profile the state of the world through the sample of the trainees. Hans and Sally use this information to weed out possible problem people and it is my belief that is recorded for possible blackmail material to be used if the occasion arises.

3. It is a result of the mental conditioning techniques utilized by the program. The trainees undergo "feedback arcs" where they take turns being yelled at, humiliated, insulted and degraded for a few hours after days of extreme emotional stress, lack of nutrition and sleep. They are likewise insulted, yelled at and degraded for not giving "feedback" to their buddies, which is in itself a traumatizing and horrifying experience. Thus, they are broken down and many are reduced to sobbing and even retching. Then, over the next few days, they are gradually built up again as their vulnerable and fractured minds are integrated with Hans Berger's philosophy and personal religious beliefs concerning the meaning of God and His creations and the purpose of the trainee’s previously meaningless lives.

4. I am suspicious and doubt the mental health and emotional stability of anyone who continues in the training at any level. These attitudes are exponentially increased as they progress from Lift-Off to the Life Mastery Trainings (T.I.T).

5. It has been done, and other possibilities have been discussed on this forum. A large, well developed and executed class action law-suit would seem to me to be the most effective way to bring them down.

6. Known sex offenders…no. Not that I am aware of. But I wouldn't put it past such people to use an alias and stay as low profile as possible. Paisola is obviously not the most brilliant of sex offenders, and if he passed through the Impact gates, more subtle individuals must have as well. However, I personally witnessed many acts of sexual indiscretion and infidelity at every level of training participation. Many men AND women comb the ranks looking for the next score. Forgive the crass description, but I cannot find any other words that describe the behavior I have seen.

Good luck, I hope you haven't and continue to not be negatively affected by the madness and moral sewer called the Impact Trainings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2008 01:58AM by exImpact.

4b. Recruiting is not how they see it. If you do not join up, you will be spun off the planet when it ascends into the 5th dimension and into it's Christed state. But love and light to you and good luck with that...

So to answer your question, the recruiting will never stop. You may not hear about it for a while, but I guarantee they will be bitching about you and your "stuckness" at the Monday meetings as they receive more inspiration and guidance as to how they can assist you in opening your heart to blah blah bling blah. If you don't get with it, you may find they they will decide to let you "spin off" and find your own path, as I have heard it suggested to other romantically challenged TITers. An Impact way to say, "Cut them off coldly while professing unconditional love, but only feel good about showing it when they bleat to the same beat you do." I did it to family, friends and girlfriends while I was in the training, and I saw the behavior exhibit in almost everyone in TIT.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2008 03:58AM by exImpact.