Thanks for all the info. It seems to clear to me that impact training is definitely a place to stay away from. It will be interesting to watch the person that is going through the TIT training. Just one more question. What does the impact training people think about people who are planning on going on LDS missions that are in the TIT training? Or did anyone ever come across anyone who was planning on going?

I'd like to add to my answer to your third question, Utah. The process I cited was only one example of many such processes Impact and most other Lifespring rip-off LGAT trainings use. You can find descriptions of the processes found in many of these programs (they are nearly identical) and come to your own conclusions as to why some people react so strongly to such nonsense.

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I need to make an amendment about the "confessions process" in my answer to Utah. The co-captain stays in the room as well. They do not always record the results of the questions, though I have been in a Harmony/Impact Summit where they did. I have not been in many Summits, and only once as a captain and once as a co-cap, and the second time they did not record them, so I may have been mistaken about that specific process and how they do it every time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2008 05:58AM by exImpact.

Their attitude is that as long as love is the central aspect of your life, everyone is right, so go on a mission if your goal is to spread love and light. They don't want to ostracize their LDS clients. Some of the office staff are active LDS I believe, though it may only be David and Kamber Berger now.

There were a couple of guys that were planning on going on missions after they finished lift-off. They wanted to go into TIT as well and had time to complete TIT 1 before they left, however, the trainers and office staff recommended that they wait until after their missions to go through TIT. After going through TIT myself, I can see why. It's hard to preach that the gospel you're teaching is the only true one on the face of the earth after Impact has brainwashed you into believing morality is relative.

I'm confused what you mean by "Morality is relative". Can you explain.

Commenting on utah's questions 1 and 6. There are definitely self identified sex offenders in Impact Trainings, but the ratio, though higher than in the general population, would be about what you would expect because these are troubled people looking for help just like the non-sex-offenders.

As to question 1 on intimate contact, every body remains fully clothed; but there are numerous uncomfortable situations, finely tuned with lights and music that involve in hand direct contact. The worst one is the act of "flying" about 10% of the training group alternately. A trainee is hoisted in the face up horizontal position overhead by 9 or 10 fellow trainees. The horizontal trainee that weighs 110 lbs. is no problem. The trainee weighing 300# presents a real challenge to those hoisting. It takes hands directly positioned head to toe to keep this heavyweight hoisted for what seems like an eternity. To be hoisted (flown) is definitely easier, if you dont mind all those hands on your backside. There is also ceremony that can best be described as washing and anointings of head, hands and feet. The washings are with warm towels and the anointings are with lotion. I don't think this occurs in Quest, but immediately after in Summit Day of Your Life and at the end of the Lift Off Ropes day and other times. A staff member who mismanages the music and lights during these events can expect quick and strong rebuke from those in control of the situation.

There's lots of hugging. One process in Summit where you are expected to hug 100 to 200+ different people, most complete strangers, and be hugged by them.

Another after ropes where you are blindfolded and craddled on the floor by a group of people.

Almost every time I did that (and as an "Angel" and as a staff member I did this many, many times over they years), there was always at least one or two creepy guys who either had a large, hard roll of mints in their pants pocket, or something else going on.

Many times this issue of a lack of consent for a sexual touch both in the "Tunnel of Love" after Summit, or in "Ropes Service" was discussed in staff meetings, usually in the context of the legal liability Impact could suffer if it "got out of hand."

Some of my friends reported feeling they had been "groped" while blindfolded. Others felt the hugs were prolonged for some sort of sexual gratification in the Tunnel.

I never felt that, but I was only blindfolded that one time. As a staff member I was told to be on the lookout for, and to prevent such things, however. It's easy in a darkended room full of sweaty people with "romantic" music playing for a hand to slip somewhere it's not wanted (or maybe is wanted, often it's husbands and wifes holding each other in the dark.)

Looking back on it all, it's just disgusting and I regret I ever did anything to support any of it.

----Ed

PS

It might serve to consider disclosing what happens in the Women's and Couple's trainings there.

A friend of mine on the South Salt Lake City police force called me when I was involved with Impact to tell me that they had gotten calls with complaints about the nudity and sexuality in the Women's training. Back then I downplayed (lied about) what was happening in there. I've heard similar things about the Men's training.

Couple's is largely a Penthouse forum of sexual discussions and sharing about XXX-plus 1ing the nightly homework; and TIT trips out of state, at least for some, were just shy of, if not actual, full blown orgies.

Most of the staff for the lower level trainings would have experienced that context of where the trainees were going, and bring that kind of energy with them. Hans and Sally each shared with me how Hans uses his sexual energy to train Quest -- and how Sally and he fed that by having "relations" all over the training room that he would remember while training to get him through a challenging encounter -- or how she could remember when training couples or women's. How that explained the smile on their faces when something difficult was happening. I also heard from someone currently at Grape Life how they shared porn videos at a hotel out of state when travelling with Hans and Sally. How porn is "A way of honoring each other . . ."

So, yes, there is resaon to be concerned about perveted sexual energy and practices both there and at Grape Life where they serve up the same posionous stew in their "Couple's Training" as well.

----Ed

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utah
I'm confused what you mean by "Morality is relative". Can you explain.

Impact teaches that there is no right and wrong. Meaning that if you don't think it's wrong to have an affair with someone else in TIT because you believe they're your soul mate then you should follow that instinct and "trust yourself". Of course, when infidelity scandals such as this arise in the training the trainers will preach that what they really meant was to follow your inner voice, unless it tells you to break promises and commitments already made.

Relative morality goes against the purpose of missionaries in that they are trying to convert others to the LDS faith. There would be no point to this conversion if there is no such thing as right and wrong. Because there is no such thing as right an wrong it is commonly believed around Impact that there is no sin. Try convincing someone of the need for baptism if there is no sin.

In further response to your original question, in TIT 1 they teach that Satan is doing us all a favor by choosing to "dim his light" so much that he acts as a force of opposition, thereby giving us the opportunity to learn. Without this opportunity we would be stuck in ignorance. Therefore, we should thank Satan everyday for the gift of opposition he's giving us. While this, on the outset, seems to fit right in line with the LDS view of the plan of salvation, Impact only uses it to diminish the need for the atonement of Jesus Christ. Again, negating the very thing that missionaries are preaching.

The whole basis of the idea that we "deserve" things and don't "need" them is rooted in the fact that Impact believes we are all gods already and are perfect already. They teach that we don't "need" an atonement, we don't "need" miracles because we can create them ourselves and we don't "need" saving ordinances.

Off the record, my beliefs don't line up with either of these views, but that discussion is for a different time and place.