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rrmoderator
To whom it may concern:

After being banned from the board fatherof3 emailed me the following:

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"I guess if you have something positive to say you are not wanted. I thought it was suppose to be an open thread but I can see now that it isn’t. No wonder everyone in there is so negative because all you do is kick them out if they aren’t."

And then this email.

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"I didn’t know the rules say you have to be negative and you have to hate to be on this site. Everyone I come across that talks about your website I will for surely tell them my experience and how I was kicked out for being positive."

I have yet to see a peron banned for being positive since I have been on here.

I have seen people who can't follow rules, and are trying to keep the negative from being allowed to stand in opposition to the positive posts that these trolls seem to want to have posted without opposition to them.

I give my sincere, and deepest satisfied approval of how this website will not tolerate the apologist crap in keeping the truth from being shared about Impact, and all the other LGAT's out there.

When positive is shared in a manner that can't stand being analytically analyzed as to wether it is a good, or bad thing for our society. When the very real, and very realistic destruction that is being created by these LGAT's are not allowed to be shared, and addressed by people.

That is not refusing, or allowing for positive to be shared. It is total, and absolute delusion with an inability to face, or handle negative.

Positive, and negative need to be allowed to walk hand in hand. Not seperate as these LGAT's, and their apologists seem to feel.

This website allows for this, and there are those who don't like living in reality as we have seen.

We still have a few apologists still attempting to get our focus off of exposing these LGAT's by bringing up meaningless, and absolutely irrelevant garbage to draw us of track on this website, and this thread (Passionate???).

Let's press on, and expose away.... Bring on the critical analysis and all the negative it brings.

If you only want positive? Go to the LGAT sponsored, and censored websites, and you can read positive till your eyeballs fallout.

It will not be on this website though. So quit trying to make it so.

[quote="RswintersThat is not refusing, or allowing for positive to be shared. It is total, and absolute delusion with an inability to face, or handle negative.[/quote]

Need to edit a sentence on my post. It should have read like this.

This is not refusing, or allowing for positive to be shared here. Which these apologists seem to ignore the total, and absolute delusion that a person is being as they have and inability to face, or handle the negative in what is shared here.

This reads better than what I posted in my post.

I haven't finished reading this whole thread so if this has been said I haven't seen it.

I just want to comment on the question earlier regarding people having different experiences in lgats. I went through this with my sister a couple years ago. Because SHE had a good experience she refuses to consider that the lgat employed covert manipulation. And she reduces my disdain of lgats to my "having had a bad experience". She keeps forgetting that when I was in the lgat, I was having a good experience.

The subjective experience anyone has of an lgat in no way disproves or even addresses the fact that lgats use known techniques of psychological manipulation. Therefore, when someone relates a positive experience [b:46d9586dbe]and that person is without knowledge that manipulation is the name of the game[/b:46d9586dbe], my conclusion is that I am listening to someone who was [b:46d9586dbe]successfully indoctrinated [/b:46d9586dbe]by the lgat.

A successfully reprogrammed subject WILL have had a good experience. That is the lgat goal!

skeptic

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skeptic
I haven't finished reading this whole thread so if this has been said I haven't seen it.

I just want to comment on the question earlier regarding people having different experiences in lgats. I went through this with my sister a couple years ago. Because SHE had a good experience she refuses to consider that the lgat employed covert manipulation. And she reduces my disdain of lgats to my "having had a bad experience". She keeps forgetting that when I was in the lgat, I was having a good experience.

The subjective experience anyone has of an lgat in no way disproves or even addresses the fact that lgats use known techniques of psychological manipulation. Therefore, when someone relates a positive experience [b:0d99854009]and that person is without knowledge that manipulation is the name of the game[/b:0d99854009], my conclusion is that I am listening to someone who was [b:0d99854009]successfully indoctrinated [/b:0d99854009]by the lgat.

A successfully reprogrammed subject WILL have had a good experience. That is the lgat goal!

skeptic

Skeptic,

That's kind of the Elephant in the room. Since Impact Trainings and LGAT's in general clearly use classical conditioning techniques to draw out predetermined responses, how can the people who claim to have had "positive experiences" be convinced that they were not merely reacting to the conditioning? Any answers?

No answers here. Former, could you take one process, say Lifeboat, and tell us what you saw were "predetermined responses" that Impact wanted them to have?

Here's what I think would be a few pre-determined responses, and there may be many:

1. I see that I don't value myself, and I will value myself in the future. I come first.

2. There is something for me to see about myself in how I took on this process.

3. Others don't see my value.

4. I have been living my life in a poor manner.

5. I hate myself.

6. There is no winning - no matter what I do the staff will yell at me.

Are these some of the responses you had in mind?

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Passionate
No answers here. Former, could you take one process, say Lifeboat, and tell us what you saw were "predetermined responses" that Impact wanted them to have?

Here's what I think would be a few pre-determined responses, and there may be many:

1. I see that I don't value myself, and I will value myself in the future. I come first.

2. There is something for me to see about myself in how I took on this process.

3. Others don't see my value.

4. I have been living my life in a poor manner.

5. I hate myself.

6. There is no winning - no matter what I do the staff will yell at me.

Are these some of the responses you had in mind?

Forget the trying to validate these methods by your desire to look at these things passionate.

The overall, and the most glaring aspect that needs to be looked at in how Impact, and the rest of the LGAT's are operating in their seminars. This is the one aspect you seem to dance around in your posts, and your refusing to address as the bigger issue is why I don't trust your intentions on this site.

I see you as an otter trying to post in a more slimy fashion to avoid being banned. Yet an apologist is an apologist.

Mental health malpractice is what is the baseline destructive aspect in these methods you so desperately want to look at in a positive point of view.

It is being done in seminars, and all thes points you are wanting to discuss are best dealt with inside the professional realm where there are licensed, and trained mental health professionals who will work with individuals for the individual well being. Not to make some company rich from selling New age philosophy crap while doing it in a deceptive manner.

These aspects you want to look at are dangerous within a LGAT format where facilitators, and volunteer staff are unskilled in the psychological realm that helps people become mentally healthy human beings.

Passionate, please quit trying to bring up items that we have already discussed, and tore apart with critical thinking on this website.

Quit with the attempts to colar these LGAT methods as being good. They are not good, and extremely dangerous.

I am very tired of your saying how your agianst LGAT's, and then in your posts you want to gleen the good things from them.

This is not the place to gleen. It is the place to expose.

RS, I haven't seen anywhere on this thread where anyone has talked about the subject I posted about, that being pre-determined responses that Impact gets the trainees to come to. This is mind control at its finest. I suggested a few and I don't see how any of them could be construed as validating Impact or me being an apologist. Having been a part of the staff, these are things I would say happen. This is an open discussion about how Impact does these things.

Mind control is huge with these LGAT's, so lets discuss how they do it.

To address your observations, yes I have not bashed them like others here. Are they trained psychologists? No, ordinary people who like what they are doing and blind to the fact that they are hurting others, or not caring if a few people get hurt along the way because more people come away from teh training with a sense of energizement or change. I said 'a sense' because that's what happens.

And if you want to compare me to Otter, then go ahead. The dude knew what he was talking about, what happens behind those closed doors at Impact. If I recall correctly, you didn't attend Impact. Klemmer may be a clone but is not Impact. Ex and Former have talked about how the TIT series is more structured towards the LDS people in this area, so may be very different than your Klemmer.

As I see it, there are a few huge issues that have been dealt with on this site:

1. How Impact hurts people through their reckless style of psychology.
2. What attracts people to attend Impact.
3. The processes Impact puts people through.
4. How to regain mental health after attending Impact (assuming it was intact before attending).
5. Mind control and re-conditioning.

I wasn't tryng to validate any of these methods in my earlier post, just stating, from an insiders point of view, what Impact trainers and staff do to their trainees.

And yes, I agree that the best way to deal with mental health is through a professional health care person.

Moderator, I have just read some of Otter / beaver / Dynoman's posts and I have no doubt that Passionate is the same person.

He is using the same arguments, the same attitudes, the same turn of phrase, the same general attitude and tone and the same basic technique of making superficial criticism of Impact TIT than propagating core principles of core trainings and ridiculing the statements of people who are opposed to Impact.

He has promoted the following teachings from Impact - energy work, lifeboat process, multiple realities, relative morality (it works for me, to hell with anyone else), questioning the value of therapy.

A few samples:

Otter etc:

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So that I don't get booted here, where can I find a copy of those rules you just mentioned? .

Passionate:

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And Former...if I was Otter I would have been booted a long time ago.

Otter etc:

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Don't you guys want to get back at them now? How can you do that? This forum isn't enough. I'd be like "Hey Hanz, meet my friend Smith and my friend Weston."

I have heard about these groups sucking in people but the rage and brainwashing you guys are talking about is beyond description. If I had that much rage I'd probably shoot myself after shooting Hanz.

Passionate:

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Does nobody here have any suggestions on how to talk to friends who have been indoctrinated by Impact? Interresting stories? I would tend to wrap my hands around their throat and start choking reality into them.

Otter etc:

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One major part of the core trainings is being connected with the world around us and doing something to make it better...
. Impact teaches that the collective whole of humanity can make a huge difference. It teaches that I can do something myself to make it better in my own small way

Passionate:

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The staffing I did was out of a sense of duty to the world and part of loving everyone.

Otter etc;

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I do know that there are people who take Impact to an extreme, shutting out family and jobs to staff, seem to be unaccounable for thier actions and call it a higher calling

Passionate:

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No I wouldn't take it that far...extremes of any idea tend to be a bit weird.

Otter etc:

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Mentally ill people are a whole different breed. I have no training on how to treat them, perhaps Impact does weird things with their minds (that already don't work well)....The more unstabel a trainee, the more potential they have to go off and do something stuid with their "new found power

Passionate:

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I know that people who have problems are harmed by Impact at a greater level than people who are fairly stable before going throught it.

Otter etc:

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Do you ban everyone from this site that has anything but negative and hateful things to say about impact?.....If someone has some valid non-confrontational questions then I will answer them from the viewpoint of someone who isn't here to bash on Impact.

Passionate:

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Do I have to totally bash Impact in every sense of the word to get you to take my request seriously? Bashing, for me, doesn't change my situation.

Otter etc:

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I have been through Impact, and gained some insight, but never became an impact groupy like some bitter ex-members of TIT here.

Passionate:

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the newbies eat that stuff up and take it as fact

Otter etc:

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How long did you eat, drink and poop it before you discovered it wasn't what you wanted it to be?

Passionate:

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I didn't know you were attending therapy before Klemmer. Did your therapist want to say "I told you so" when you went back?

Otter:

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So whos dedicated enough and hurt enough to do it? Anyone here? I may be playing devil's advocate here, but if anyone believes the words they type here and hate them so much, then everyone should contact their State Legislature and

Passionate:

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Surely someone here has some good experience with this as that is exactly what you all profess to want to do so badly.

Otter:

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Through my crystal work, and with the assistance of some friends, I was able to remove it and now I feel clear, complete connection with my God. The energy flow is amazing! Its pure whiteness defies description.

Passionate:

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That crystal of mine was really neat. As was the staff that asked me to carve neat patterns in it. They will be missed...temporarily.

Otter:

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I also said the court thing would probably be a futile approach as there aren't (most likely, at least) any laws they are breaking.

Passionate:

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Unfortunately in this country it is not against the law to run a company like Impact.

I am sorry to waste space on this but Otter aka Passionate is making this thread nonsensical.

I don't mind a rational discussion with someone who is honest about their attitude towards lgats, but this contradictory bash-and-promote technique is nothing but a distraction.

I don't want to waste time on this character but I would like to have some sensible conversation with others on the board and I am having to plough through a lot of noise and junk to get to the relevant posts.


Rswinters said to Passionate:

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I am very tired of your saying how your agianst LGAT's, and then in your posts you want to gleen the good things from them.

Well said, Rs.

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Passionate
No answers here. Former, could you take one process, say Lifeboat, and tell us what you saw were "predetermined responses" that Impact wanted them to have?

Here's what I think would be a few pre-determined responses, and there may be many:

1. I see that I don't value myself, and I will value myself in the future. I come first.

2. There is something for me to see about myself in how I took on this process.

3. Others don't see my value.

4. I have been living my life in a poor manner.

5. I hate myself.

6. There is no winning - no matter what I do the staff will yell at me.

Are these some of the responses you had in mind?

May i answer to that?
The responses the cults are expecting from these exercises are nothing like the above.
You just believe these is rational, do you? and you expect equally rational responses like the ones you listed, don't you?
You just don't see it.
It's emotional. It's subconscious. I guess there would be no point going the long version, so I'll use the short: the predetermined responses are FEAR, CONFUSION, STRESS (one, all or combination of them), later to be piloted into BREAK OF RESISTANCE, SUBMISSION and DEPENDANCE. You'll have a little DELUSION (a peaceful sense of 'getting it' and 'enlightment' which is nothing more than your emotional resistance and psychological defenses cracking down).
Some exercises are lighter, some heavier (like lifeboat), but they're all the same.

Maurice, I agree with you. I was saying the thoughts they might be having, and you were associating the feeling. All of those thought could have those feelings associated with them.

Fear, submission, stress...all definitely meant to clobber the trainee over the head and get them to do it Impact's way.

One prevalent thing that the trainees, while not asked to see but they feel anyway, is the motion to "get it" as you said. If anyone doesn't get it they are treated as an outsider and its their fault (in Impact's eyes) that they aren't getting the results they want. I heard one staff member say on more than one oocasion "Fake it till you get it" like that was going to help the trainee.