that quote looks wrong ~> army-of-me is quoted, not Passionate, just to be accurate.

I agree Army. You stated it clearly and those agreements makes no sense. I'm pretty sure someone would learn forgiveness without needing to make an agreement to be molested. Unfortunately in the training room the newbies eat that stuff up and take it as fact.

Quote
skeptic
It definitely makes NO SENSE! This "philosopy" is seductively convenient & self serving. It is NON-SENSE. It's inherently illogical and contradictory. It causes the "lgat effect" in me: when I try to make sense of the non-sense my head spins. Maybe that's part of the plan: to cause confusion in the brains of the subjects.

skeptic

I liek this new phrase: "lgat effect" :lol: ! Unfortunately,the "lgat effect" is one of the many things that causes psychological causalties, and was one of the things that contributed to my anxiety after I got home from Impact.
As far as the "pre-life contract" concept, it has many purposes. Truly forgiving someone can be a really wonderful and freeing experience. This feeling is the exact thing that Impact wants to create in it's participants. There is no way Impact can get everyone to forgive all that they want to in their lives, in 4 days time, UNLESS they make up a story that magically enables all the hurt to magically (and falsely) disappear. Now participants who have been working for years to life to forgive someone have this "instant euphoria".

Quote
army-of-me
Oh wait... since he did me a favor, I guess I didn't learn forgiveness after all, did I?
...
Also, it is extremely dangerous. It gives abusers a ticket to "fulfill their pre-life contracts". Any and every wrong doing can be explained away with this concept, and in fact people should be thanking the abuser for teaching them life lessons. This is a sickening concept and doesn't even make sense when applied to Impact's own logic. (what's new?)
Again, this subject is one of the most incidious philosophies at impact, and I really feel needs to be addressed, so any logical analysis or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Quote
Passionate
I agree Army. You stated it clearly and those agreements makes no sense.

Quote
Passionate
In a sick twisted way, Klemmer did you a service.

Passionate, do you see a problem here? (If you truly want to deprogram, here's a good place to start.) :)

Quote

Passionate, do you see a problem here? (If you truly want to deprogram, here's a good place to start.)

I'm working on it. Certainly I am rife with contradictions right now. Thanks for pointing it out. I have a long way to go.

Passionate:

Whether you are Otter are not, you have failed to back up your original claim that you came to this board looking for help to deprogram yourself. Your answer to my question "what areas of your beliefs or responses do you think need to be deprogrammed" was that you don't believe the teachings of TIT anymore because Hans has corrupted them but all your other beliefs are fine, the fundamental principles of Hans' beliefs are fine and you consider yourself psychologically healthy. So why do you need deprogramming?

You've pulled a bait-and-switch maneuvre on this board: baiting with a request for help then switching to insulting and advising other people based on Impact philosophy. I am taking you at face-value; I am seeing two faces and taking them both at face-value and concluding that you are not sincere.

Your comments about the billions of hindus is an attempt at argument by intimidation. It is intended to imply that I am insensitive and uneducated about eastern religions. That kind of tactic does not intimidate me and most people on this board are more than wise to that kind of underhand manipulation. Most I am sure also see the difference between prayer and "energy sending" in an LGAT training room.


Final note: in your most recent post you said:

Quote

Unfortunately in the training room the newbies eat that stuff up and take it as fact.

I find this offensive. It seems you still have grandiose airs of being superior to "newbies". The problem is not with the "newbies" who "eat this stuff up" but with the trainers who exploit people by using covert (and overt) manipulation to indoctrinate such beliefs, against people's will and without their informed consent that they are, in fact, being brainwashed.

You are blaming the victim again with this insensitive and arrogant comment.

Perhaps as part of "working on" your contradictions you could read the document the moderator referred you to [i:3b4014e974]before[/i:3b4014e974] posting any more insulting Impact-philosophy-based messages on the board.

Quote

I find this offensive. It seems you still have grandiose airs of being superior to "newbies". The problem is not with the "newbies" who "eat this stuff up" but with the trainers who exploit people by using covert (and overt) manipulation to indoctrinate such beliefs, against people's will and without their informed consent that they are, in fact, being brainwashed.

I agree with you there SaneAgain on Impact being to blame. I wasn't placing blame on anyone when i wrote earlier. What I DID do is state a fact from my observing the trainings many times. The new trainees at Impact eat up the stuff a trainer says. This is what they do. It is not their fault and I never said it was. When I used the term 'newbie' I meant someone who is in the core trainings...nothing more and nothing less. Don't read into my comments stuff that isn't there.

About the deprogramming - I'm not sure how much or what kind I need. I guess a trip to a therapist for a check-up wouldn't hurt. I came here mostly to know if anyone had info on how to talk to friends who have gone throught the training. Rick showed me a page that talked about that and I appreciate that. I read it and am working on using it next time I talk to one of my Impact friends.

It seems that I have a bit of a different view of Impact. Although I see that they have a product that harms people, I look at some of their teachings in a different light that most who post here have. Is that ok? Is my opinioin on it any better or worse than the next person's? Most here seem to find fault in what I say and discredit me for it.

army-of-me wrote:

Quote

We were all beings of light and unconditional love. Since we were already perfect, it was impossible for us to learn anything. So I decided that I wanted learn forgiveness. So I decided to ask my Dad to sexually abuse me on Earth. He was reluctant but, for my sake, agreed to it (*gagging*). Well, on Earth, my Dad sexually abused me and now I have the chance to learn forgiveness but I'm having a hard time forgiving my Dad for the horrible things he did. Then one day, I attend Impact Trainings and they "remind" me of my pre-life agreements. Horray! I no longer have to forgive him, because he did nothing wrong, in fact he did me a favor, right! Oh wait... since he did me a favor, I guess I didn't learn forgiveness after all, did I?
This concept, in Impact's own terms, is an "avoidance tactic" from REAL forgiveness of an actual wrong, something someone did to you after succumbing to their wekanesses and selfishness.
It is extremely damaging. It places blame back on the already suffering victim, and gives imaginary control, and takes away the only control many vicitms have, which is the choice to forgive or not, and move on.
Also, it is extremely dangerous. It gives abusers a ticket to "fulfill their pre-life contracts". Any and every wrong doing can be explained away with this concept, and in fact people should be thanking the abuser for teaching them life lessons. This is a sickening concept and doesn't even make sense when applied to Impact's own logic. (what's new?)
Again, this subject is one of the most incidious philosophies at impact, and I really feel needs to be addressed, so any logical analysis or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Hello!
I have attended Quest, Summit and most of Lift-Off before I decided it was getting just too much...(I had a life...I didn't need another one!)
I whole heartedly agree with army-of-me here. I was abused by my step-father as an adolescent and to think that I made an agreement with this #@!!** man and it was my 'fault' that it happened to me is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. My job is to learn to forgive him, not excuse him. And certainly, not to have anyone like him think it was OK because of a previous so called agreement! Geez, it's hard enough to forgive the abuser and yourself without making him out to be some sort of 'hero', and adding a "what was I thinking?!" when I supposedly 'agreed' to this in the first place! The idea must have been created by an abuser to be able to excuse his/her abusive behavior. How convenient! :twisted: We're supposed to say "I get it", here....NOT!
I witnessed several others who had a hard time with this concept, but eventually succumbed to this absured idea thru many tears and arguements with Justin, Pamela and Terri. I shook my head many times and kept my mouth shut most of the time. When I tried to make a comment they always twisted it and turned it around to fit their agenda. I also witnessed those who had done things that are morally 'wrong' be praised for 'keeping their contract and being such a good example!!:roll:
Anyway, I just had to add my two-cents in. I can only 'hope' (there is hope, right? :lol: ) that what little I got out of Impact won't come back to bite me later. And I hope those of you that have received any form of harm from them that you will recover and be a stronger person despite Impacts' efforts to program you to their way of thinking. My heart truly goes out to you.
I am going forward - one day at a time!

Army-of-me wrote:

Quote

When originally posted about "heart/"mind", using your whole brain was what I was generally getting at, but it came out a littel different I guess. That's why I put "heart" and "mind" in quotations and used the words logic and emotion instead. I wanted to point out that Rs had used a typical LGAT phrase (get out of my head and back into my heart), and to point out that there wasn't a war between them. Ultimately, I think all the parts of your brain tend to all be working at what they do simultaneously, so pretty much everyone is always being emotional to a degree and reasonable to a degree, and remembering to a degree, and processing sensory information to a degree and so on and so on.
Anyway, enough on that.

I liked your original comment in its context and I really appreciated it, that is one of the mushy teachings I wasn't aware was still in my mind and it helped a lot when you pointed out that its not either-or. ex's comments on the subject also helped. That's what I really like about this board, at least once a day someone says something apparently simple that alerts me to conditioning and ideas I wasn't aware had seeped into me and were causing problems.

Thanks army and ex.

Thanks too to everyone who posted about the Lifeboat; when I hear other people's experiences it takes it out of the murky nightmare corner of my mind where my inquest experiences live and brings it out into the open where it can be honestly examined next to similar experiences and exposed for what it really was and hopefully diminished into oblivion!

Sane Again wrote:

Quote

Thanks too to everyone who posted about the Lifeboat; when I hear other people's experiences it takes it out of the murky nightmare corner of my mind where my inquest experiences live and brings it out into the open where it can be honestly examined next to similar experiences and exposed for what it really was and hopefully diminished into oblivion!

I thought my experience was bad enough...I, too, was totally bewildered, with all the confusing instruction and yelling, it was very hard to 'know' what the heck they 'wanted' me to do! It didn't seem to matter what you did, it was wrong, incorrect, 'not-working'. My plan was to make sure a certain someone in the group got onto the lifeboat, no matter what. Of course, it didn't matter what I did, that wasn't going to happen with any amount of effort I made. The idea that I was not allowed to make a decision that made sense to me was very frustrating. Apparently it's purpose was make any feeling or thinking on my part unimportant, and to succumb to their twisted way. I felt, and still do, that it would be 'OK' to sacrifice yourself for the sake of someone you love. Afterall, to quote someone they were ALWAYS quoting: [i:8a6b6b892b]"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."[/i:8a6b6b892b] John 15:13. Apparently, you can only quote from Him when it served their purpose.
You couldn't win....hmmm...I thought Impact taught to create a 'win-win' situation. In my experience with them it was always a 'lose-lose' on my part and a 'win-win' on theirs. It's amazing how happy that always made them! :roll: