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Rswinters

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fatherof3
[b:4d452761cd]I would have to disagree with your statement above. I dont think by people coming on here and talking about having a good experience means that they are being insensitive. That is not my intention and i have mentioned how my own experience was completely different from others on here. That is not being boastful just stating that not everyone has the same experience. I feel like you are being a little defensive and need to not be so angry. I am saddend that you had a bad experience and wish you the best but because we all have been to different LGAT's also means that our experiences were different. No LGAT is the same except the mechanics of it most likely. You cant get the same experience unless you have the same exact trainer at the same time. So there is no need to feel like a victim. We are all wonderful people in a great discussion.

fatherof3[/b:4d452761cd]

First off, in case you did not correct it. I am the one you quoted.

Second, You obviously have not read in depth of this website.

Third, every point you have made in this post has been addressed already.

Keep digging, and reading. It has already been established as people are breaking the secrecy that these LGAT's are carbon copies of each other.

I beginning to wonder about your intention on this website. Please open your eyes, and get them of of yourself. Open them up to the destruction in others lives.

This is not the same as buying a candy bar and then find you don't like it and go back and buy another.

Peoples psyches are being messed with, and great harm is being done.

You say it did not happen to you and many others. Well, read, read, and read. It is happening to others, and it is happening with extreme similarity across the whole landscape of LGAT's.

Please for the love of God. Take your eyes off of yourself, and look at the destruction and harm being done.

Yes, I too see the good at a self focused level that has been good. But, I can't see it when I broaden the focus.

Thanks to my soon to be ex-wife. Which how she chose to apply her experience in the same LGAT as me with the contradictions that came from the Klemmer in what was produced in our marriage led to the destruction of it in her application. Versus the remarriage of us from my application of it.

You can read my posts, and get the bigger picture if you want.

[b:4d452761cd]I want to correct myself it was formerimpact that has assisted me. Again i am terrible with names. THANK YOU FORMER[/b:4d452761cd]

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army-of-me
I only hope that someone else can learn from my bad experience with Impact, but without all of the pain I had to go through. Unfortunately several of those I have shared it with say things like: "I don't want to hear anything negative. I only want to hear positive things because that's what makes me feel good inside."
I'm not talking about someone who occasionally filters out negative things because they're having a difficult time or for another legitimate reason... I'm talking about someone who wants to filter out or reject ALL the negative ALL of the time (this could be in life in general, or just censuring one subject like Impact). They are only shortchanging themselves, setting themselves up to be taken advantage of, and choosing ignorance. Thoughts on this?

Army-of-me
I want you to know that i have already learned from your experience. You have saved my soul I was going to go into TIT but after being on here i cant go on anymore. Just remember You can count the seeds in an apple but you cant count the apples in a seed. All of you are doing great and assisting everyone. I wish you would not have gone through what you did but I thank you for sharing all you have. I agree we all need to know the good with the bad or we cant understand things fully. For someone to say they dont want to hear the negative about something is just either brianwashed or unsure themselves. I am LDS but i have read a lot of bad about our church and am not afraid to learn. One thing I know is that God will always give us what we need weither it be a feeling or material. He is the one who will never lead us astray.

fatherof3

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Passionate
I did a search online and this is the only place I could find that posted the truth about Impact. Thank You!!!

I feel terrible. I participated in Impact for several years at all levels and then realized it wasnt what it appeared to be.

I have led many others down this path.

My life is mostly great but I know others have been harmed by my angeling and staffing. Does anyone here know how I begin to talk to them and show them the truth?

I also need deprogamming in many areas. Any success stories on how I can do that too?

What has worked for me is a total denouncing of Klemmer & Associates philosophy in my life. Since this is Impacts thread, then you will need to renounce Impacts philosophy if you follow my suit in this.

Then I began a very in depth look within myself with full critical thinking turned on in this introspective look.

I had to get very honest with myself here. I had to look at what attracted me to Klemmers philosophy in the first place. I had to face the vacuum within certian psychological realms within myself that wanted the quik fix, and short cut to being happy and at peace with myself in many area's of my life.

I had to confront the narcissism, hedonism, and humanisn that exists in us all at various levels. I had to face the aspect of seeing how I am drawn to these aspects without even realizing it.

I had to face the emotional inmaturity that is within myself, and that needs to grow up to be interdependant in our society. Not codependant, nor independent as I tend to lean depending on situation.

I had to confront that I like being selfish, and self absorbed in my life.

Basically, I had to cut loose of all pretense in this introspective look at myself and what drew me to buy into an LGAT philosophy that Klemmer & Associates and Impact are operating in carbon copies of each other.

Basically, I had to let critical thinking be turned on and focused at the source of this problem.

Myself, and what was in me that drew me as a bug to a light.

I hope this helps you.

After the introspective look that this website played a huge part with helping me look at the negative aspects.

Now there has been clarity on what I failed to do on my end, and there is still more clarity to get here.

Yet, at the same time the introspection has been walked in enough by me, and now its time to hold these LGAT's accountable for their part.

Which is glaring, and huge.

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fatherof3

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formerimpactgrad
fatherof3,

I guess I'm just asking you to "be open" to the possibility that while you may not have experienced the mental anguish that many others on this thread have experienced, you may find yourself realizing in several months that everything that happened behind those doors was completely pointless for you and very harmful for some of the other trainees that went through with you.

Thank you again for a great response. Actually i will tell you that right now i already know that it i was some what pointless for me. Most of everything I heard i have learned from books and experiences. I actually have seen the negaive results. People try to say it is because the person didnt stay but i feel differently. I pray that no one in my group will have to have any harm from any of this and i will do what i can to keep it from happening. I do understand that it is possible because i have read lots and i have learned more then i knew 1 week ago about all these LGAT's from all of you sharing. I hope that my knowledge now will assist in keeping some of my close friends from having bad experiences.
Thank you all.

fatherof3

Are you trying to walk the middle ground of staying involved in an LGAT?

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fatherof3

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Rswinters

First off, in case you did not correct it. I am the one you quoted.

Second, You obviously have not read in depth of this website.

Third, every point you have made in this post has been addressed already.

Keep digging, and reading. It has already been established as people are breaking the secrecy that these LGAT's are carbon copies of each other.

I beginning to wonder about your intention on this website. Please open your eyes, and get them of of yourself. Open them up to the destruction in others lives.

This is not the same as buying a candy bar and then find you don't like it and go back and buy another.

Peoples psyches are being messed with, and great harm is being done.

You say it did not happen to you and many others. Well, read, read, and read. It is happening to others, and it is happening with extreme similarity across the whole landscape of LGAT's.

Please for the love of God. Take your eyes off of yourself, and look at the destruction and harm being done.

First thank you RS for correcting me about the quote. Second I think the same goes for you because all you do is attack everyone that comes on here if they say they have had a good experience. I have opened my eyes thank you for being concerned. I am listening and taking in everyones comments. Plus if you read my last posts you would see that i said other wise. When i said a lot of people i have seen came out okay yes i was wrong atleast i admit it. Eximpact was kind enough to teach me (without being negative) before i say stuff like that i need to wait and see what really happens because even thought it doesnt happen right away several months afterwards is when most people see the affects. My eyes arent on myself and i find that offensive for you to judge me without knowing anything about me. I dont come in here and rip on you because of your beliefs. I never said it was as unimportant like buying a candy bar. I did say however that every LGAT is different from the trainers to the trainees and so forth. I am not saying that any of them are right I just said for someone to talk about a different class shouldnt be comparing it to Impact it isnt a fair comparison. The mechanics are the same yes but not the learning. You are correct i have not read in depth this website i didtn know that was a requirement to have a discussion. When i have the time i will. I am learning about the distruction and harm. I have only seen one person so far that it has damaged out of my group. I AM STILL LEARNING but when you become defensive like you are it makes me wonder what your intentions are. There are better ways of getting your point across then attacking others. I thought you might have learned that from your experiences in your trainings.

fatherof3

I have been dealing with a lot of destruction in my life, and it is definitely having a strong impact on my responses to people saying positive things about an LGAT.

In time this will subside. For now there has been an atomic bomb explosion in my life from an LGAT.

I am sorry for attacking you, and will work on checking myself more so in the future.

At the same time. I do not apologize in the slightest for any attack that I have made agianst and LGAT whatsoever.

If you felt attacked by me. I apologize, and will look at how I post in the future keeping that in mind.

Thats the best I can give you. I hope it is enough.

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fatherof3
...I did say however that every LGAT is different from the trainers to the trainees and so forth. I am not saying that any of them are right I just said for someone to talk about a different class shouldnt be comparing it to Impact it isnt a fair comparison. The mechanics are the same yes but not the learning...

Two more things here.

1. I am sorry for coming across so abrasively. Yet, in this post of yours you showed up with the very communication that you are pointing out in me. Just to point that out to you. But that is okay. No disagreement will be only positive in how it is handled. I am okay with that, and yes there will be negative showing up in my disagreement with you, and others.

2. This quote from your post is completely inaccurate. Which has been addressed on this website, and is why I challenged you with the question if you have read most of it yet.

There is definitely the ability to compare them. Which we have unveiled the deception of these LGAT's being different on this website.

The learning is the same in all LGAT's because the instructors are using the manuals to instruct the students in how to think.

I will work on not being so attacking in my posts. But, they will contain negative. You will just need to live with that.

Okay folks. I have just got back from doing something that got me out of my head, and back in my heart. I am looking at my interaction with fatherof3 in the past couple of days.

This thread has really pressed my buttons these past few days as it stirred up the atomic destruction and pain within my life as a direct result of Klemmer & Associates that we have uncovered lately as being a carbon copy of Impact in training and how a participant goes through the learning and brainwashing process.

I have been very much in the attack mode these past couple of days. I will never apologize for attacking an LGAT, but I will apologizing for doing it so intensely that I blow over other people such as fatherof3 has pointed out he felt I did to him.

I don't care if I feel if this is correct, or not. The fact is fatherof3 felt that was doing so. In my book this means that I will be accountable for behaving in a manner that made fatherof3 feel this.

So, I will from this point forward keep what fatherof3 shared about my posts only being fatherof3 and will try to be more assertive without attacking in my posts.

Please understand though. I have been really having things heat up in my Professional Counseling as I am dealing with the destruction in my life. It has been extremely painful this past week in what is being addressed in my sessions, and my counselor is telling me this process will most likely take another 6 months to work through.

But, finally I am dealing with the source of stuff that made me ripe for the picking by Klemmer & Associates as I allowed myself to be led down this deceptive path of promising the golden carrot as I walked it.

It is very painful to walk the path that I am walking emotionally. Yet, as I am dealing with the stuff that is being addressed in counseling. I know it is what needs to be dealt with in me.

It only took my life exploding on the atomic level in my forties to finally wake up and deal with the emotional garbage that I have ignored my whole life long.

It is time to stop avoiding the pain, and to step into it and deal with it.

There is no other way, regardless of LGAT's pipe dream philosophy on changing the meaning which leads to denial, and delusion with leaving me in a place of abusing others as I mirror how I have been treated without correctly identifying the abusiveness of it relationally.

So, Thanks to all of you. This past couple of months as I have vented my experience around Klemmer, and have interacted with the other LGAT posts have been extremely healing for me.

Thanks

Rswinters, thank you for posting about how you are overcoming your stuff and for admitting that you have some deep-seated issues about yourself that were present for many years. I know that people who have problems are harmed by Impact at a greater level than people who are fairly stable before going throught it. Maybe you could look at Klemmer in a slightly different light that you have been - your experience with them allowed you to FINALLY get to those problems, maybe not in a way you would have chosen and certainly not in the training room at Klemmer but you ARE working them out now with a therapist when before you weren't because you were not aware they were problems to even work on. Klemmer awakened them in you...just a thought. Just think of how much better off you will be in 6 months as you clear these issues from your life.

In a sick twisted way, Klemmer did you a service. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see it that way though. I wouldn't want to admit that either if were in your shoes.

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Then I began a very in depth look within myself with full critical thinking turned on in this introspective look.

This line brought out a bit of curiosity in me. I know in Impact this "getting real with ourselves and getting to the bottom line" was stressed at many times. How is a counselor different than Impact in this area? I don't see that I need a therapist right now but who knows.

Passionate Wrote:

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I did a search online and this is the only place I could find that posted the truth about Impact. Thank You!!!

I feel terrible. I participated in Impact for several years at all levels and then realized it wasnt what it appeared to be.

I have led many others down this path.

My life is mostly great but I know others have been harmed by my angeling and staffing. Does anyone here know how I begin to talk to them and show them the truth?

I also need deprogamming in many areas. Any success stories on how I can do that too?

Hello there, it looks like the Impact people are away for a while so I will welcome you on their behalf - I haven't done Impact, but have done very similar trainings in my part of the world. And I am curious :)

I don't have advice for you but I'm sure others will when they return. May I ask - in what areas do you think you need deprogramming? In your beliefs and thinking patterns, or your emotional responses, or a combination? And which beliefs or thoughts or responses in specific are you concerned about?

Its sad that you should feel terrible about leading others down the Impact path. I am sure most people who encourage others to do trainings and who staff do so with very good intentions; the problem in my opinion lies with the trainers and few others who are aware of the dangers and the lies and continue regardless.

One thing to bear in mind is that as a staffer or assistant you are really still a participant or delegate because the processes you go through while assisting are partly designed to further indoctrinate and control [i:6d773e75a2]you[/i:6d773e75a2], not only the new delegates. Its also fair to remember that you were manipulated into your role as a staff person and into recruiting other people for the benefit of the trainers and owners of Impact; it is also valid to look at the manipulation practised on people (ie yourselff) while they are staffing and the damage and dishonesty of that in itself.

Most of the discussion here is about the effect of the training on participants but it also affects the staff and assistants, often putting them in a position of having to deal with problems and emotions that they are not qualified to deal with; I am sure that can't be healthy and I would really like to hear other people's thoughts about this. I know rsWinters said he found it more disturbing assisting on a lifeboat process than taking part in it, are there any other thoughts or experiences people can share?

I read an interesting description of the training routines practised in scientology, and it describes both the auditor (coach) and the pre-clear (new trainee) in terms of what the process does to each - an auditor is only a trainee at a higher level, also subject to the processes. Scientology is not an lgat, but I think the same principle applies. Staffing is part of the training.


May I also ask - you said Impact turned out not to be what you thought it was - can you expand on that - what you thought it was, and what it turned out to be?

Anway, welcome here, I am sure the Impact people will return soon :)