RsWinters, I know you've been going through a lot, and I'm really glad that you are on the road to recovery.

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Rswinters
Okay folks. I have just got back from doing something that got me out of my head, and back in my heart.

I have some good news, despite what Klemmer may have told you, you don't have to be "in your head" OR "in your heart". In fact, making you beleive that you have to choose between them or that there is a war between them, is one of their most powerful techniques to manipulate people. The truth is that one isn't complete without the other.
I'll try and explain the best that I can: Logical thought processes are by nature reasoned, orderly, stable, analytical, honest, unemotional consistent, and coherant,. Your "heart" is the center of feelings, intuitions and emotions. This encompasses all feelings: love, fear, hate, anxiety, joy, peace & anger. When you can use "heart" and "mind" together you have the best advantage. If you only use your logic, you would become non-emotional and robot-like. If you only use your heart you'd be naive, irrational, sensational, easily persuaded, moody etc. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but when we can use the advantages of both together we have the greatest advantage. We can be intelligent and loving. Trusting at a safe level. Honest and tactful. Logic will warn us if our anger or depression is getting irrational or out of control. Our "mind" and "heart" are there for us to learn how to use properly, neither are to be entirely overcome.

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fatherof3

I would like to know when most of you went through the Impact training if you are willing to share because I also know that with time companies can improve and they most likely dont stay the same.

Damagedbyassociation and I both attended this summer.

Thanks Sane. I'll do my best to address your questions.

The beliefs in TIT never fully sunk into me. The ones that were so far out I let slip away and they didn't hold any power over me. I did 'go along' with the crowd though as I wanted to fit in and be an exalted revered TIT person. HA! An outsider would not have a clue as to how the core trainees look up to TIT people and almost bow to them. All part of the training to get people to keep giving money.

The staffing I did was out of a sense of duty to the world and part of loving everyone. Someone earlier suggested we love the people we see either in the traings or out of it, hurt or not. I loved some of them right out the door...sending them my energy and letting them know I love them even as they reject this wonderful training process. Now I am loving them in a different way.

The ideals that they teach are somewhat grounded in the Eastern religions...the New Age stuff. Actually its been around for a long time but in this counrty we see it a bit differently. I remember seeing "What the Bleep Do We Know?" after completing the core trainings and thinking "Wow I have just touched the tip of the iceberg in this area" and that quest to see what else there was kept me going back to Impact for more.

I had a mistaken belief that Impact would teach that to me. It ended up being Hans & Co. teaching me their religion and working on every part of my being to convert me to Impactism. Well it worked for a while as they sucked me into their vortex of new fun exciting and energizing stuff. But then I saw it for what it was - mostly made up Hans crap. TIT III is a tool to keep the trainings staffed and enrolling new people. Also its a tool to get others to rise up to that level and keep going in their own training.

army-of-me, I agree with you on the heart - mind thing. One of the reasons the trainees do the stretches is to use them both in the extremes. Impact teaches us to balance the two. That balance will allow us to go about life in the most effective way. I agree with this. Balance is important. Their methods of getting us there may not be the best approach but the theory of balancing the two I cannot discount.

Well, how about instead of using your mind or your heart, why not use your brain? I mean, it controls the heart muscle and all emotional and rational processes occur there. Why is it that the most complicated organ in the world shouldn't get the nod for all the credit. Evidentially it is quite well documented that your brain can do all the things attributed to both the mind and "heart", and these various states of activity can be tracked and documented in the brain through the use of technology. As far as balance goes, yeah, its good I suppose, but I think logic and reason have to come first. Why else do you think this new-age therapy bullshit doesn't work? Emotions first then logic third or fourth even (if at all).

I think if people stopped focusing on balance and started focusing on how to stop being total morons, things would be better all 'round.

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Passionate
Rswinters, thank you for posting about how you are overcoming your stuff and for admitting that you have some deep-seated issues about yourself that were present for many years. I know that people who have problems are harmed by Impact at a greater level than people who are fairly stable before going throught it. Maybe you could look at Klemmer in a slightly different light that you have been - your experience with them allowed you to FINALLY get to those problems, maybe not in a way you would have chosen and certainly not in the training room at Klemmer but you ARE working them out now with a therapist when before you weren't because you were not aware they were problems to even work on. Klemmer awakened them in you...just a thought. Just think of how much better off you will be in 6 months as you clear these issues from your life.

In a sick twisted way, Klemmer did you a service. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see it that way though. I wouldn't want to admit that either if were in your shoes.

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Then I began a very in depth look within myself with full critical thinking turned on in this introspective look.

This line brought out a bit of curiosity in me. I know in Impact this "getting real with ourselves and getting to the bottom line" was stressed at many times. How is a counselor different than Impact in this area? I don't see that I need a therapist right now but who knows.

I am sorry to disagree. Because to be very frank. I was in professional counseling with the same professional counselor now as I was with before attending Klemmer. Even he tried to steer me from going to Klemmer as I told him a wanted my counseling to be approached from the Klemmer philosophy angle. He did not want to do so, and I quit seeing him and jumped blindly into Klemmer.

I do not thank Klemmer for opening my eyes to this stuff. I would have gotten there in counseling without the huge destruction in my life caused by Klemmers philosphy.

So, sorry can't look at it this way. Klemmer was a short cut in my life that brought more destruction than was needed for me to get to where I am at now in counseling.

Yes, in the end. I will be a better man. But that is in no way, shape, or form due to Klemmer.

Sorry to disagree. But disagree, I do.

Ex,

Interresting way of looking at it. Each of us seems to have a different way of envisioning the heart-mind connection. You seem to be very logic-based. Do you ever use your emotional side in a constructive way? I have seen emotion from you here..anger and such...which may be justified. Are you telling me you don't like emotion and that it doesn't have a big role in your life?

If I were to go about life without emotion then everyone would think I WAS a moron. I suggest the imbalance in the two is what creates a moron or idiot. Too much emotion creates someone who cannot see logic, and too much logic creates someone who cannot feel in touch with other humans on a non-intellectual level.

My mom is a perfect example in my life of someone who is unbalanced. She is pure emotion and wouldn't be able to see logic if it bit her on her nose.

Rswinters, I didn't know you were attending therapy before Klemmer. Did your therapist want to say "I told you so" when you went back?

One thing I am glad about - I never enrolled any family member in Impact. Not even my passionately emotional mother.

That crystal of mine was really neat. As was the staff that asked me to carve neat patterns in it. They will be missed...temporarily.

Now where to start with the people who come up to me and say "I really connected with you in Quest as you staffed it." Smile and say thanks and let them decide their own fate?

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Passionate

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Then I began a very in depth look within myself with full critical thinking turned on in this introspective look.

This line brought out a bit of curiosity in me. I know in Impact this "getting real with ourselves and getting to the bottom line" was stressed at many times. How is a counselor different than Impact in this area? I don't see that I need a therapist right now but who knows.

It is very simple, and basic as you think about how a persons psyche works. We operate on belief systems and there is no getting around this aspect.

If you discover a belief system that is destructive in your life by whatever means. There is not a period of time in changing this belief system to a different one.

Example: If I have a belief system that "A" is wrong, and I am confronted with it being a destructive belief that I am holding. When I am confronted with this aspect and I really get it as destructive, and it is causing me harm in my life. As soon as I get it, and really get it. Wham, in that instant of really getting it. My belief system has been changed to a belief system of "B".

This is where the controlled environments, and the long hours, the emotional breakdown from turning off the emotional resistance and participating fully with all your emotions come to play. Because it is in the wham of self discovery of a destructive belief system within yourself, and it is seen in a way that you really see the destructiveness of it. Your going to change it to something else at that precise moment. That is how are belief systems work in our psyche.

You don't confront a core belief system without swapping it for another one in the same instant.

Guess what, the philosophy of these companies that a participant has been saturated with, and surrounded by for hours, and days on end. Especially as these philosophies that are at the core belief systems become what tends to be replaced as a belief system in a participants psyche.

The funny thing is that people don't catch how they change a belief from one thing to another. It is done on the subconscious level, without even realizing it. Usually it is not even recognized until you run into it causing a conflict within yourself.

The general population doesn't understand this aspect of the human psyche. But, believe me the minds behind these LGAT's do, and they use this knowledge to control, and groom these seminars to take full advantage of this ignorance in people.

A person can not be alive without having core beliefs within themselves. It is not possible. How you read this post, and react to it will be based on your core belief systems. There is no way around this aspect.

In professional counseling how this matter is dealt with is much more proper, and healthy.

A counselor helps you look at your life, and works with you to discover these same core belief systems that are confronted in LGAT seminars. They help you look at the affect it is having on your life, then they work with you to discover where this core belief system was established in your life and why you chose to believe it at the time. Which is very important as many core belief systems are defense mechanisms that at the time worked to protect you, and guard you emotionally. Then they work with you to dismantle the belief system in a critical analysis way of seperating out what is good in it (What it is trying to protect, or guard within yourself emotionally.) Then they work with you to see how your reactions to it with others may be harmful if it is so. Or helping you see how it is good, and may just need to be adjusted for better relationships with others. They work with you to discover what belief sytems you want to embrace in your life, and there is no philosophy floating around in these sessions that are readily available to swap out in counseling when you finally get how destructive a core belief system has been for you. The counselor doesn't even give you any suggestions on what to believe. He has you search within yourself for what you want your belief system to be.

I can go on in detail about how counseling is more healthy than LGAT's. LGAT's get you broken down in facing your core belief systems, and because you have been surrounded and indoctrinated with this LGAT philosophy/beliefs. Wa laa you have a readily available belief system that has been pounded into you with all sorts of positive reinforcement that without even realizing that belief "A" was just replace with "B" and you where oblivious to it as the LGAT has you so self absorbed and giving yourself emotionally. Well, you feel empowered with a more positive outlook on life. Sorry to tell you this, but your core belief was just switched from "A" to "B". Without you knowing it. Welcome to the destructiveness of LGAT training.

Let me just point out here. A persons psyche is a very delicate matter, and in many cases such as my case with my past trauma, and abuse which I never have faced and worked through in my life properly. Professional counseling is the only place that a persons psyche can be openned up in such a manner as LGAT's do in seminars. It is exactly the same way your psyche is openned up in counseling. The difference is hte environment in which is done.

In professional counseling you don't have a groomed belief system being bombarded with extremely positive reinforcement waiting for you to have a self aware moment in seminar that is tailored for participants to experience. It is not planned by seminars when a person has this self awareness happen. But, they know it will happen for most at one point or another in seminar. All they need to do is keep the positive reinforcement of the philosophy/belief system that they are selling readily availabler for your psyche to subconsciously be switched out with what ever self aware destructive belieff system that has been exposed in your self discovery journey that they are grooming in you as you are participating in seminar.

Professional counseling doesn't do this. They help you address, and confront core belief systems and look at their affect upon your life. They work with you on what you want to develop as belief systems. They don't have a ready philosophy/belief for you to switch out.

Professional counselors also help you face the negative that exists in you, and work with you in containing it with learning tools to accept this as part of you, and how to work with other people in a manner that you don't abuse them with your negative aspects.

Its about the difference between balance, and proper emotional health. It is about being in relationship with yourself, and with others.

LGAT's are way out of line in this psychological realm.

Passionate wrote:

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The staffing I did was out of a sense of duty to the world and part of loving everyone. Someone earlier suggested we love the people we see either in the traings or out of it, hurt or not. I loved some of them right out the door...sending them my energy and letting them know I love them even as they reject this wonderful training process. Now I am loving them in a different way.

Well I'm glad you've found a different way to love people. Sending energy is totally arrogant psychotic behaviour, whether you wrap it up in eastern religion or quantum mechanics. By 'psychotic' I mean out of touch with reality. They also teach this zen-quantum-energy junk at Quest and its hugely damaging, especially when they start going into healing light energy and other such nonsense, especially in an authoritarian environment of mental manipulation. It makes people think they have magic powers which they don't have. It makes people believe they are subject to other people's magic powers, which don't exist either. It confuses cause and effect and has never been scientifically proved to have any value at all.

Love consists of words and actions between people who consent to a relationship - where is the consent in "sending energy" to total strangers who may well not want anything to do with it, even if it did exist?

People are welcome to their beliefs but when its covertly indoctrinated as is done in large group awareness training, personally I have a HUGE problem with it.

It seems you support everything done at Impact except a few of Hans' special beliefs? You are promoting how Impact balances the heart-mind connection; what fun and excitement is to be had from quantum mechanic-zen crap and you are trying to make out that lgat did Rswinters a SERVICE??? That its okay for people to have their lives, relationships and emotions totally skrewed up because it makes them "get real" with themselves? You're suggesting Rswinters would be at fault for failing to see the value of Klemmer?

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In a sick twisted way, Klemmer did you a service. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see it that way though. I wouldn't want to admit that either if were in your shoes.

it seems to me you are here to promote the trainings while paying lip-service to a few minor problems with Hans' personal philosophy.

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I know in Impact this "getting real with ourselves and getting to the bottom line" was stressed at many times. How is a counselor different than Impact in this area? I

Characteristics of Impact vs a counsellor:

1. They are not qualified
2. They are not accountable
3. They are not legally bound to confidentiality
4. Their purpose is to exploit, not to heal.
5. They work with a cookie-cutter approach designed to elevate their own status at maximum profit and minimum time investment rather than provide a genuine service to the client, at an individual level at a pace suited to the client's individual needs.

Why are you really here?