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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 17, 2006 06:35AM

Hi all!

I will start this post with the intent to heal myself after being subjected to Landmark's "technology". I hope it also will help someone else.

This is the history of courses I took at Landmark:
- Forum
- Forum in action
- Advanced course
- Self expression and leadership program
- IFLP - introduction leadership program
- Wisdom course
- Communication courses

I was an IFL - introduction leader to the forum for a number of years. Not a very successfull one though. Thankfully.

Money spent - a lot. Time spent - a lot. Mind spent - a lot.

I will take one DISTINCTION from Landmark at a time and dismantle it. Not all at the same time but the post will grow.
All capitalized words are Landmark talk - except headers.

Lets talk about the word DISTINCTION itself. It is supposedly something that means that you can separate one thing from another. In landmark technology this is important since we as human beings tend to mix things together and that causes problem for a human being. It was said that the human being has been constructed in a faulty way. God (he or maybe a she, we were told) simply did a bad job. In the forum we were told that we would learn how to fix this faulty construction. (It was also said THERE IS NOTHING TO FIX, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. This is an example of a mental contradiction used to create confusion in your mind. Part of mind control 101 )

[b:a245b2b05c]HOW THIS COULD BE LOOKED AT [/b:a245b2b05c]
To be able to make things DISTINCT from each other has created a sense of not being within myself. I'm constantly having a DISTINCT outer cult self that is evaluating everything I say and do. "Could I do this in a more effective way?" "Why didn't this work?"
"Am I living up to my POSSIBILITY?" etc etc etc

NB There are other forum DISTINCTIONS that has a part in it. But I try to keep it simple - one thing at a time. The whole workings of the courses is very hard to understand. A big part of it is very manipulative mind control techniques.

[b:a245b2b05c]HOW DO I COPE WITH HIS?[/b:a245b2b05c]
It is very hard to get back my sense of self. This will hopefully come as I continue my healing.

[b:a245b2b05c]OTHER SYMPTOMS[/b:a245b2b05c]
I have a hard time to decide things. What if I make the wrong choice? What if there is a better solution?
Of course landmark taught me about how to make choices. Their way to make a choice is to make a choice free from the past. Don't think about it - just make a choice and live with it. This way of making choises makes people do hasty decisions in very important areas of their life without thinking about it, such as quitting your job, dumping your spouse, investing all your money on the stock market without making an analysis first....It could possibly also be the trigger for a suicidal person to make a choice to kill himself.

[b:a245b2b05c]MY CONCLUSION[/b:a245b2b05c]
It may be useful at times to be able to separate things.
About making a choice - dangerous and should not be used. Think about it and use your past experiences to help you decide. Never make a hasty decision about the big things in life. Don't quit your job while on a high. Don't sign up for another course when under manipulation.
These are my conclusions and I urge anyone reading this to think for themselves.

[b:a245b2b05c]FOR LANDMARK PEOPLE[/b:a245b2b05c]
There are more things to life than being your POSSIBILITY. You can be yourself and have a wonderful life without Landmark - just don't get into deep. Then you will have to go through this reversal process and there is no quick fix for that :cry:

Maybe this will help you - it is not about landmark.
[www.culteducation.com]

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: looking for help ()
Date: January 17, 2006 07:30AM

Wow! What a post!!!!!!!!!! This may really help. Keep em coming! BTW, how long were you involved and do you mind saying what area?

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 17, 2006 01:39PM

Thanks!

I will maybe reveal later where and when and how.

Let's take the sentence above and look at it:

Saying that I will maybe "reveal later...." could be looked at as a bait for anyone reading this post. If you thought it was useful you want to know more. Maybe in the end you will see who made this "great post". This is another part of mind control 101. Keep 'em hooked by implanting messages that keeps the subject under your control to the end.

[b:f2fd757796]TO AVOID USING MANIPULATIVE TECHNIQUES[/b:f2fd757796]
I am a bit paranoid about this whole thing and there are some "powerful people" from Landmark that I want to keep in the dark about my identity. Why? Because a common way for cults to silence people is by agressively trying to make a person see that they really are "sick" "mentally ill" or something equivalent. I got a call from an ex-friend with that intent. When I didn't see it his way he started telling me that he was "worried about me" "why do you keep talking about Landmark after so many years" "It's sick" - all this said without compassion. He didn't care one bit about me.

[b:f2fd757796]WHAT'S AT THE END OF LANDMARK?[/b:f2fd757796]
When you have been in your chair for 3 days and get to the day when the truth about life is revealed you will hear this:
LIFE IS EMPTY AND MEANINGLESS - IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING - YOU ARE A MEANING MAKING MACHINE - THERE IS NO HOPE - YOU CAN NOT GET OUT OF IT - IT'S A VICIOUS CIRCLE OF RACKETS AND WINNING FORMULA - YOU ARE BANKRUPT AS A HUMAN BEING - A FAULTY CONSTRUCTION - and on and on and on and on.
Where do you find the solution for this situation? In the advanced course (of course)....GO TO THE TABLES! ENROLL YOURSELF IN THE ADVANCED COURSE NOW! AT A DISCOUNT. (I said earlier that I would capitalize only forum distinctions and headers. Sometimes I will also capitalize the forum leader's voice that I can still hear in my head as clearly as it was yesterday)
This is a stage of the course that could produce an unwanted BREAKTHROUGH. A BREAKTHROUGH in psychosis. I know people first hand that can testify to that.

[b:f2fd757796]FORUM LEADERS WAY OF KNOWING WHEN THE CROWD HAS "GOT IT"[/b:f2fd757796]
The days are constructed so that you spend 3 hours without a break. During those 3 hours it is the forum leaders job to make one or more DISTINCTIONS distinct for at number of people in the room. They have some way of determining when this has been accomplished. I guess it's just a matter of saying I AM THE STAND FOR BREAKTHROUGH or some other landmark "technology" stuff.
I have seen forum leaders coming out of the room for one of the breaks steaming with anger. Usully because someone in the course is resisting THE PROCESS and giving the forum leader a hard time. This of course is a healthy reaction - to be angry. In certain siutations. But the anger that comes out of the forum leader and other leaders in Landmark is not healthy at all. Remember YOU ARE A FAULTY MACHINE.
Usually, if not always, their anger would be unloaded on the course supervisor who DIDN'T DO HIS JOB! (I've seen it firsthand as being the assistant course supervisor)
It is very important that some persons GET IT in every 3 hours lesson. The first ones are the most crucial. They will usually have RESULTS early in the course and other people want to get what they have. So they carry the torch for the forum leader. The forum leaders job gets easier as the days of the forum pass. People that have had BREAKTHROUGHS urge the other people to do as the forum leader says.
This is what Landmark calls leadership. Break people down - give them a bait - make them take it - make them feel good about it - make them sell the course to others - sit back and watch the money come in....
There are numerous ex landmark leaders that are still using this leadership model as a way to make money. Now they get some money at least. Good for them. But are they using manpulative methods to get the money? I would think so...It is usually disguised as some coaching enterprise. The usually teach bottom-up leadership. They say that top-down leadership is old age. "Take our courses and your business will thrive!"

[b:f2fd757796]ARE THE FORUM LEADERS GOOD PERSONS?[/b:f2fd757796]
Deep inside they are. At least I hope so. They are dehumanized by years and years and years of manipulative methods "done" on them and at the later stages "done" to them by themselves and other leaders. When I was training to become an introduction leader one of the manipulative methods was to stand in front of a mirror and practise being excited. You started out with 4 seconds and you should train until you could do a full 2 minutes of faked enthusiasm. A BREAKTHROUGH for anyone completing this excersise could mean you were TRANSFORMED. It was really interesting to see how dull people turned into forum robots. At the time I didn't see this as harmful but of course it is harmful. We all now that all sorts of emotions and thoughts go through our mind when looking in the mirror. We might think - I am ugly or any other bad thought (ALREADY ALWAYS LISTENING). This excersise makes you stop those thoughts. This is a mindstopping technique. After doing this excersise and completing it you will for a long time remember this every time you pass a mirror and your critical thinking will go deeper into recess. Why go back to the bad thoughts?
I guess Tom Cruise has trained this quite a lot ;-) . Since Werner Erhard did a lot of Scientology I guess this technique could come from there. It might come from any little book teaching mind control though.

[b:f2fd757796]ISN'T MINDSTOPPING USEFUL?[/b:f2fd757796]
If you know what you are doing and to what purpose. But in the above example I didn't know it was a mindstopping technique. Also the bad thoughts that were stopped didn't get away. They remain buried for a while but will come back later. There are no quick fixes that really work. Change of bad thoughts take time. And critical thinking.

[b:f2fd757796]HOW THIS AFFECTS ME IN MY DAILY LIFE[/b:f2fd757796]
It's obviuos that it's nice to meet happy people. Salespersons smile a lot and use different techniques to make you buy their stuff. I trained a lot to sell the Forum. Nowadays I feel resistance to being excited. Memories come back. I feel angry because I don't know if I am faking or if I am really exited. Whenever I am in an interaction with somebody I can watch myself from "the outside". I can easily see that I get what I want by applying the exciting technique in a moderate way. Of course it has to be suitable to the situation - otherwise people will think you are crazy - as in the case with mr Cruise.

nettie

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 17, 2006 03:14PM

Quote
looking for help
Wow! What a post!!!!!!!!!! This may really help. Keep em coming! BTW, how long were you involved and do you mind saying what area?

Hi looking for help!

I just want to make sure my information here hasn't got you hooked on the Forum - it is (in my opinion) impossible to go as an observer. One of the reporters that went undercover knowing a lot about it has told me that he found himself thinking "this is good". He had a system set up before entering the forum to make sure he didn't get hooked. It saved him but you might not be as lucky!

If you try to make a system with only yourself as part of the system you will run a very risky business. I cannot give you a foolproof system. All systems have bugs ;-)

regards
nettti

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: sonnie_dee ()
Date: January 17, 2006 04:19PM

excellent posts nettie, I think the key to really moving away from the hold landmark has on your life is to disrupt and disasemble the language. Everything at landmark is based around the landmark language and they take ordinary words and twist them to fit their meanings and it is incredibly hard to resort back to the old meaning.

I will add my own 2 cents to some of what you have written now and then ias I think it will benefit me to start disecting some things a bit more now as well.

Good luck on working through everything
Sonnie

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 17, 2006 07:30PM

Thanks sonnie for your feedback

[b:18e1762c96]ENROLLMENT[/b:18e1762c96]
This is what Landmark is mostly about. You will have to enroll people to keep having the RESULTS.

You learn it in a few steps. During the first course, "the forum", you just do it. The forum leader tells you that you are STINGY AND RUNNING YOUR RACKET if you don't enroll every person from now on. IF YOU HAVE SEEN A GOOD MOVIE - WOULDN'T YOU TELL YOUR FRIENDS?

In "the advanced course" they teach you the DISTINCTIONS of ENROLLMENT. In the "self expression and leadership program" you complete your knowledge of ENROLLMENT. In the "self expression and leadership program" you get to try on the bottom-up leadership model. Enroll people into your project (which might have a good cause, ie some charity) then enroll them into the forum and then have them do the work on the project. You will get all the credit. If the project during your "self expression and leaderhip program" gets media attention Landmark loves it. They can then portray themselves as doing good in the world.

During all these steps you are constantly pressured to ENROLL people at all times. Harass your friends and collegues. The problem during these steps is that you are not really fully trained (from a landmark perspective) in ENROLLMENT.

[b:18e1762c96]MONEY BACK GUARANTEE[/b:18e1762c96]
These above mentioned courses (along with forum in action) is what they call CURRICULUM FOR LIVING. There is a money back guarantee after you have completed that "curriculum". I have never heard anyone getting their money back - because if try that they will run this on you;
YOU MADE THIS CHOICE - IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE RESULTS FROM THIS CURRICULUM YOU WILL BE OUT OF INTEGRITY WITH LANDMARK AND YOURSELF - BY ASKING FOR YOUR MONEY BACK YOUR LIFE WILL START "NOT TO WORK". This is not the exact wording. The result that no one gets their money back is accomplished by any means possible, using the forum "technology".

[b:18e1762c96]THE TENTH ENROLLEE[/b:18e1762c96]
To become fully trained and begin your way up the ladder and become a leader in landmark you will have to take the "introduction to the forum leader program". This is where the real indoctrination starts - you start to train yourself to become an image of a forum leader. You train by really getting down to identifying how ENROLLMENT works.

One of the measures for being accepted into the leadership of landmark as an introduction leader after completing the course is to have CREATED 10 enrollments. I was stuck at 9 and I had one person on the hook. After a lot of talking and pressure on that person he enrolled. I was accepted as introduction leader. That 10th person killed himself by hanging 2-3 years after doing the forum and other courses.

I have of course no proof that his suicide was caused by his participation in landmark. This is of course a very delicate matter. I talked to his girlfriend who reported that he became increasingly violent after taking the courses. They split up. They had 2 young children. He ended up in depression. Depression is a dangerous sickness since suicide is common among depressed people. Who/what caused his depression?

nettie

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: Dynamix ()
Date: January 17, 2006 09:54PM

Nettie, that is the saddest story I have ever heard. I cannot believe that this black hole of an organisation is allowed to exist.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: Ether Dragon ()
Date: January 17, 2006 11:40PM

Thank you for your posts, Nettie. I find your entries very interesting, and I'm looking forward to reading more. Just so you know, I'm sending these on to my wife whose attending follow-up meetings and doing the group-conference calls post-Forum. She had originally signed up to attend the Advanced Class, but had lately been leaning towards quitting Landmark. After attending her meeting lastnight, however, she's showing renewed interest in LE.

She's ever-eager for me to attend the Forum myself, or at least go to a "special" group session that will allow me to see what its all about. Essentially, she refuses to believe that I could understand Landmark without attending the Forum myself, a belief no doubt inspired by Landmark's saying so, and my refusal to accept them as a purely benevolent entity. As such, I've relied a great deal on testimonies from people like yourself, who have been on the inside, to show her that my concerns are well justified and informed.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: looking for help ()
Date: January 18, 2006 12:25AM

Again, thanks Nettie and Sonnie for your posts!
What is it with these "conference calls?" When I first heard the term, I thought conference call as in business. I mean NOTHING was allowed to interfere with these calls. Finally I realized the calls consisted of reading to each other over the phone. I think this is MAJORLY weird.
BTW what is "BEING OUT OF INTEGRITY?" That is really taking liberties with the English language. I have been hearing a lot about "neuro linguistic programming." Is this what the Landmark programs use? Does anyone know any good research on this?

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 18, 2006 12:20PM

Quote
looking for help
Again, thanks Nettie and Sonnie for your posts!
What is it with these "conference calls?"
When I first heard the term, I thought conference call as in business. I mean NOTHING was allowed to interfere with these calls. Finally I realized the calls consisted of reading to each other over the phone. I think this is MAJORLY weird.

BTW what is "BEING OUT OF INTEGRITY?" That is really taking liberties with the English language. I have been hearing a lot about "neuro linguistic programming." Is this what the Landmark programs use? Does anyone know any good research on this?
I guess it is as you said - they take a normal business practise and redefine it to suit them. That nothing was allowed to interfere is the normal way for how a landmarker acts. That's exactly what BEING IN INTEGRITY means. She has probably COMMITTED herself to these conference calls. If you have COMMITTED yourself and don't do it then you are OUT OF INTEGRITY. When you are OUT OF INTEGRITY your life will start to "stop working" . There is also the concept of BEING YOUR WORD and a lot of other pieces of the puzzle. All of these new ideas make these conference calls seem to be a matter of life or death .

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