I'm in tears right now reading all the threads about Landmark on here. I'm so glad I found this board because I thought I was going crazy.

This was one of the kindest, most loving and most loved people I have ever known. He got involved with Landmark and he's a completely different person and has made it pretty clear he has no use for the pre-Landmark people in his life.

I was hanging on because I thought he needed a steady link to his past, but I've been hurt too many times and it's just too exhausting for me at this point.

What are the odds of him coming back down to earth? I have never been this worried or upset about another person in my life. I just want to shake him.

ConcernedandSad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm in tears right now reading all the threads
> about Landmark on here. I'm so glad I found this
> board because I thought I was going crazy.
>
> This was one of the kindest, most loving and most
> loved people I have ever known. He got involved
> with Landmark and he's a completely different
> person and has made it pretty clear he has no use
> for the pre-Landmark people in his life.
>
> I was hanging on because I thought he needed a
> steady link to his past, but I've been hurt too
> many times and it's just too exhausting for me at
> this point.
>
> What are the odds of him coming back down to
> earth? I have never been this worried or upset
> about another person in my life. I just want to
> shake him.


Dear ConcernedandSad,

I'm very sorry for your situation.

If you can get your friend to read the book Outrageous Betrayal by Steven Pressman, there's a chance. [www.publishersweekly.com]

You can also get this person to watch the 60 Minutes investigation into EST founder Werner Erhard from March 3, 1991 -- there are copies floating around on the Internet.

News summary of the broadcast at [www.culteducation.com]

More info about Landmark Forum at
[culteducation.com]

and
[culteducation.com]

and
[culteducation.com]

Hi ConcernedandSad,

As a Landmark graduate myself I hope I can offer advice on how to approach him. The kinds of questions you can ask that will have him respond to you and open up to you.

1. What is most important to you in life?
2. What is the biggest thing you got from the Landmark Forum?
3. Who am I to you?

Listening to the answers may be difficult at times, but getting inside his world is how you will find an opening to move forward and get him back in your life again.

I don't advise going toe to toe and trying to "fix him" - this will get him defensive and close off the relationship. He probably wishes you understand him. And understanding him doesn't mean agreeing with him - it just means showing you understand where he's coming from and you accept who he is, even if he's changed. Once he feels heard, you have an opening to let him know how you feel, and I bet he will listen and understand then.

I wish you all the best, and I hope you get him back in your life! If you do get stuck, do please post here again - he is obviously important to you, and I will do what I can to help you get him back as your friend.

He has been a victim (don't use the word "victim" around him) of a semi-(or not so) sophisticated progam of mind control, influence, and persuasion that is designed to turn him into slave-labor, unending wallet-grabbing "enrollee," and recruitor for the group. It's a money-making scheme that more or less taps into the innermost desires, hopes, and dreams of certain not-very-skeptical people who wish to improve themselves or their lives. Certain others see a path to superiority, dominance, or power-tripping. Through various techniques, they manage to bypass the usual cynicism one might have of some old hat pie-in-the-sky snake-oil salesperson. Their schtick is so pathetic, I'm amazed they're still in business. That "Socratic dialog" stuff is just so much veneer over a shabbby, foot-in-the-door-to-door sales "training." Just as divorce turns many perfectly nice people into monsters, Landmark turns many (sort of) normal people into self-centered jerks.

Bad news...It can take years for people to unwind themselves from these dangerous programs. Their critical-thinking skills have been disabled. Depending what he started with, he may or may not tire of the nonsense. He has to build up his own critical mass of doubts before anything you say will mean anything to him. The programming is like a "mind-virus." You may be able to chip away at it. Good luck.

Ellen

I think he's officially "gone". I'm absolutely devastated. Trying to detach and focus on other things.

How often do people come out of this?

When my ex husband called me out of the blue yesterday and then texted me a pathetic, rambling apology for the past 25 years of neglect, abuse, name calling and violence I was certain he was jumping off a bridge, so I contacted our daughter who said, "Dad is just doing some 'cult' thing. If he's apologizing for being an idiot, let him, it might be the only apology you ever get. Besides, he's seeing someone who forced him to do it or she wasn't going to ... um, you know, have 'relations' with him."

Okay, enough is enough.

My ex is my ex for a reason, but he's been doing a fine job getting healthy on his own. He quit drugs, drinking and began surfing to get in shape -- then found a job with benefits, and I was with him through the entire journey.

I was his cheerleader, and for a few years I supported him financially because he was struggling with legal issues and various criminal charges because, well ... he's violent.

But he was still my darling dummy.

He had his own mind, his own heart and he was funny. Irreverent and in spite of everything we'd gone through, he was my best friend and the father of my children.

This phone call last night?

He sounded like a zombie. It wasn't him and my heart broke.
I stared at my ceiling all night and realized that this woman he's seeing is a fraud too.
I won't give additional details but I feel as though there is a sickness in my soul and I'm really worried. I'd like to point out that my feelings have nothing to do with hopes of rekindling any romantic involvement -- I've been married to an awesome dude for five years and he's concerned about the ex too.

My ex and I have adult children and grand children -- and this woman (seriously damaged and deceptive) is influencing him to start another family? He's 55! She is telling him to change his career and buy a house on the beach? He's a truck driver for a large city for pete's sake, he doesn't even have a high school diploma! That he was able to land this particular job with a great salary, health insurance and a retirement plan was a miracle and we (his family) were so delighted and relieved. Sure, start another family if you can afford to raise it, but he couldn't manage his first one until a year ago!

Because of this "Landmark" seminar series, I have lost three friends. One to suicide, one who is such a zombie that he can't attend functions without getting sick and now my ex. I care because my children were just getting close to their father and I fear we've lost him for good.

-----
I've spent the entire morning reading about cult recovery, what I can do to protect close friends and most of all, our kids.
It seems that there isn't anything any of us can do, and this place (Landmark) is taking a great system of self introspection to a level of toxicity that no one seems to know what to do about. I have a feeling that a great deal of censorship is happening by this multi million dollar zombie factory out on the net because in spite of my personal experience with how detrimental it can be, there's not much of anything by the way of criticism, or true experience that is anything except "lightly" negative.

Evidently you either "get it" or you don't. And if you "don't" then ... there by the Grace of God you go.
I wish I had an answer for you -- but I'm concerned and sad too. At least we know we're not alone. My biggest fear is that my ex will off himself. He has threatened to do it so often in the past that his "left of center" newly established self confidence might send him out there to actually accomplish that.
I'll keep a light on for him, but I can't do much else at this point. I think I've lost him.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Dear Concernedandsad:

Your friend was up against an entity that has decades of experience processing
thousands of subjects.

Under no circumstances should you let yourself go to an introductory evening.

They have dealt with thousands of distraught friends, lovers, spouses and
know how to process you.

It isn't being close minded to refuse to let a drunk drive you home, its
prudence.

So don't go to any introductory seminars or events no matter how sweet or
persuasive your ex may be.

No one mind, however brilliant can outthink them.

Why?

LEC is not just words. One's body and sleep rhythms are affected.

Even the physical environment is set up to have an effect.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Trolls showed up immediately, a clue how important this discussion
was.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Another good page

[forum.culteducation.com]
Some advice.

If anyone offers you advice here on this message board, whether in posts or
by private messaging (PM), do a search on them.

This message board goes back 13 years. Look up at the task bar and you will find 'search'.

Once there, put the name of each person (including me) into the search slot
and select 'all dates' so the search covers the entire span of this message board.

Here is an example of how to do a search.

[forum.culteducation.com]

If you ever get any PMs that seem odd or not right, send the copy of that PM
to Rick Ross, owner of this website and moderator of this message board.

You can reach Mr. Ross here:

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2015 09:21PM by corboy.

ConcernedandSad:

This board does have a long history of Landmark supporters posting here in an effort to spin something positive about Landmark, despite its horrible history of complaints, labor violations, bad press and personal injury lawsuits.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The factual history of Landmark speaks for itself.

Your ex may move on or he may become a Landmark junkie, taking more courses and submerging in the Landmark subculture.

But keep in mind that Landmark is a for-profit privately owned company. So they want money or free labor. Your ex may eventually get that and decide he has had enough. That is, that he is unwilling to keep paying for his supposed enlightenment or become a "volunteer" worker.

You can share the information that's online about Landmark, est, the Forum and Werner Erhard with him. Erhard created the training and it didn't apparently work out that well for him personally, though as a business scheme it seems to have made him and his siblings quite rich.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This report run by CBS "60 Minutes" is very revealing.

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

After this show was televised in France, Landmark left the country.

There is a chapter in my book about LGATs and one chapter specifically about an intervention to get someone out of Landmark.

See [www.amazon.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2015 09:35PM by rrmoderator.

BlueCollarGoddess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least we know we're not
> alone. My biggest fear is that my ex will off
> himself. He has threatened to do it so often in
> the past that his "left of center" newly
> established self confidence might send him out
> there to actually accomplish that.
> I'll keep a light on for him, but I can't do much
> else at this point. I think I've lost him.
>
> I'll keep y'all posted.



Absolutely, at least we're not alone.

This has truly been the most bizarre thing to witness. It's starting to sink in that it's real and it's so upsetting to me.

ConcernedandSad:

Many people that due the Forum end their association with Landmark after completing that training, despite Landmark's efforts to sell them on paying for more and continuing.

Hopefully your ex may be in that group.