MKP Mankind project, Group Therapy, PTSD, suicides and deaths,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 25, 2010 10:49PM

Suicides and psychological trauma that happen from these mind-crushing LGAT seminars are a terrible fact of this LGAT seminar industry.

Its not a "cause" about MKP, just researching the basic facts about the outrageous deceptions and blatant lies from LGAT groups like MKP, as exposed in this thread and in many other places.
MKP is just another of dozens of these damaging LGAT's which have emerged over the last 20+ years.

Its the direct OPPOSITE of paranoid to look at the actual legal contracts from MKP, which were posted just now for the first time in this thread.
Those contracts were not online until recently, obviously from the orders from the MKP attorney's to try to further protect MKP.

Its madness to not LISTEN when a sect is telling people the serious damage/death they can suffer at their LGAT seminars, as the LGAT seminar costly attorney's have told them to put it in the legal contract, to protect the seminar company.

A father posted in this forum that his son committed suicide after attending MKP.

Death and suicide, as well as serious psychological injury from these seminars happens very frequently. Those who have worked in the field of these LGAT seminars have seen what goes on first hand.

From doing some research into MKP, and from a lot of experience looking into what MKP and these LGAT's really are, a very serious warning needs to go out to the public.

To minimize these "death contracts" in any way for a damaging group therapy seminar like MKP is very dangerous for vulnerable people, who are their target demographic.
That is what the LGAT seminar relies on, their salespeople and members minimizing the seminar risks verbally, simply to get the "suckers into the tent", while covering their ass with these contracts. They all do it as a strategy.

The reality is that people need to read every word of these executed and witnessed legal contracts, and to take them to their own attorney.

No one should ever sign ridiculous contracts like that for an out-of-control unregulated, unlicensed "group therapy" seminar, like the ManKind Project.

When the MKP members try to tell people the contract is just the typical legal mumbo-jumbo, they are using deception, and following the "training" they have received from the LGAT seminar.
The risks are real, people get hurt at EVERY seminar.

So the warning has to go out, in very direct, and strong language to cut through the fog of lies and confusion around groups like MKP, and the powerful techniques they are using to manipulate people's identities.
Those with professional training in these areas can see the exact processes being used by those who founded the MKP system. As proven, many of those techniques came directly from Werner Erhard [] and many others.

Over time by searching the internet, people become aware of these serious warnings about injuries and deaths at the seminar, read the contracts very carefully, and decide not to sign the contract, and decide not attend the LGAT seminar.
There have been many many posts in these forums from people who have decided to not attend these damaging seminars, or have escaped from the endless cycle of these LGAT seminars due to the information provided, in very direct, blunt language, which is what is required to cut through the sophisticated manipulative techniques of the LGAT seminar systems.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 11:04PM by The Anticult.

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Re: MKP Mankind project, Group Therapy, PTSD, suicides and deaths,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 26, 2010 01:46AM

Another couple points on communications:

The only way to really combat these exploitative groups, of which there are many, is through accurate knowledge.
Once a person has carefully researched the precise TECHNIQUES used by these groups on people, which is not easy to do, then its much easier to explain them to friends or family who might be getting lured in by some group.

These groups try to coach their recruits to alienate themselves from their family for that very reason.
But if a person knows the techniques being used by the group, explaining those techniques to their friend can often help the person see what the hell is really is going on.

Some people are money-scam sensitive, to if they can be shown the $ SCAM going down, then they see what is happening right away. From experience, some "men" respond very well to being shown how some group is just after their money, they get that, and just close their wallet, and the group loses interest in them, as they just did want their money!

Some might have knowledge from therapy, and can be attuned to the emotional abuses happening from the group.
Some with a more technical mind, might be able to see the persuasion techniques being used.
Or if a person is in sales, showing them exactly how they have been sold can help.
Those will some legal training, might respond better to that side of it, although of course that can go the other way.

Each person is different. There have been cases where sending someone links to criticisms of the sect is enough. In other cases, anonymous emails explaining the sect's tactics have worked, often it does not work.
Some respond to just being told the blunt facts, backed up with proof directly, for some that backfires.
So obviously is complicated and difficult.

But waiting until after people have been indoctrinated in an ManKind Project 48 hour "brainwashing" session, is waiting too long.
MKP is using extremely harsh and powerful techniques on these men, deliberately. They are deliberately using deception and bait-and-switch, to get people to attend, to they can be bushwacked. That is the MKP plan.

Landmark Education, like MKP, also has a waiver full of many of the ways Landmark can harm you.

QUOTE: "I just found this waiver posted on another thread on this board, and my stomach is churning. My boyfriend must have signed this." []

To make their sales numbers, many local Landmark salespeople, will VERBALLY tell people to ignore the waiver, and say that its just legal mumbo-jumbo, and to just sign it.
They will say things that are the opposite to the legal contract, like dishonest salespeople will do.
A great way to counter-act this, is when the LGAT salesperson is telling you all of their verbal BS, you pull out your phone video-recorder, and ask them to state their name, date, and then to RECORD what they are saying that contradicts the contract.
And/or, get them to write it down, and sign it, and to say that the contract does not apply to you.
Then tell them you are going to get it legally notarized at the notary at the mall.


Landmark's "waiver" and Disclaimer Judo []

Landmark and Psychosis...[]

by Landmarks own criteria, most people should NOT take Landmark.

So don't take it.

If anyone ever asks you again to take Landmark again in your life, just tell them to read their own disclaimer that states most people should NOT take Landmark.
That is the perfect way to shut these Landmark recruiters up. Read your own ridiculous disclaimer.

Or tell them to sign on the disclaimer that they personally think YOU should take it. Get them to sign their name on the Landmark disclaimer stating they think you should take Landmark.

This is actually the perfect LGAT buster...ask for the LGAT disclaimer signed by the salesperson personally, stating why you should take it.
They will go numb all over and walk away.

Its tempting to go into some Landmark Intro meeting to "discuss" that disclaimer for about 3 hrs publically in front of the new recruits..

this is the perfect way to get rid of the LGAT recruiters.

Ask for the Disclaimer for the LGAT.
Then get them to cross-out the parts of it that don't apply to you, and ask them to sign it personally, or have their manager sign it.

Then tell them you are going to get it legally notarized at the notary at the mall.

If everyone did that, they would be out of business.
Its Judo, just use their own disclaimer against them.

If they say they don't have a disclaimer, get them to sign a document saying they don't have a disclaimer.
you will never hear from them again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2010 01:52AM by The Anticult.

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Re: MKP Mankind project, PTSD, suicides and deaths, Chip Moulton
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 26, 2010 02:21AM

By the way, this process can be very effective when an aquaintance or "friend" is pestering you about attending the LGAT seminar they are involved with. (PSI, Landmark, Byron Katie, MKP...)

The "friend" repeatedly asks you to attend _____ LGAT seminar, as it "changed their life", as they are programmed to do this, and make sales for the company.

The response can me a hard copy of the current waiver/disclaimer, prices, brochure, and then we'll have a coffee and look it over.
They go...ummm..ok...and contact their LGAT "coach".
After about 9 distractions and misdirections, they might produce the waiver. If not, just refuse to discuss it further. Period.

But once they produce the waiver, and the details, then once you have enough knowledge and training in this area, slowly going through every single point in that waiver with a pen, and marking it and revising it, can not only deprogram you, but can have a powerful effect on them, once they start to perceive the reality of the situation.

Again, everyone is different, but for some at least this method can be very effective, if a person has the proper knowledge and training. And that is only one method, by analyzing the waiver.

It can also work by analyzing the money, like was done here recently for the global sect SGI-USA Soka University, who claim to be a broke charity saving the world, but it was PROVEN recently in this thread they have 900 million in the stock market and real estate. That blew the minds of many SGI followers right there, they had no clue this was going on.

SGI IRS 990 Forms []
SGI war profits? []
The facts and evidence of reality can be enough to collapse the illusions and disinformation from the group.

By the way, this is why MKP conceals their IRS 990 Forms, and plays the "non-profit" card.
Yeah, SGI is also "non-profit" which simply means they get to have 900 million in tax-free investments, and billions invested globally, which they control and the leader can do anything they want.

MKP is also "international", and once a group goes international, then they can move money globally inside their own organization to take advantage of loopholes.

That is why they hire the big-guns like Trip Moulton, and what do you know...he accepts personal checks directly!! Maybe he'll also be a Mentor-Coach for hire too.

Trip Moulton
Chief Financial Officer
The ManKind Project

___________MKP Quote________
"You may also donate by sending a check to Trip Moulton, CFO, 27 Blue Bird Hollow, Eddyville, KY 42038.

Blessings to you all,

George H. Daranyi
Chairman, The ManKind Project
“I bring men to life”

PS: If you donate $250 or more please accept our gift of Journeyman, a film about Boys to Men (and their New Warrior mentors),

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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: anonymous39 ()
Date: June 26, 2010 02:45PM

@Anticult, the stuff that sounded paranoid to me wasn't your research, it was (what I took as) the veiled suggestions that I or possibly @curiousnycgirl were here to spread the MKP kool-aid, for example:

"Its very interesting how some who supposedly know very little of MKP, seem to have a commitment to spreading serious misinformation and de-facto soft-apologetics for MKP, or at least confusion."

"...That is either a dangerously naive, or is something else."

"There have been some outrageous lying and MKP trolling in this forum in various guises..."

It seems to me that in the last few posts your language has moderated a bit, and I personally am more comfortable with it. Just FYI if other people in similar positions contribute to this list in the future.

I'm doing as much research as I can. I have a document called, "INTERMEDIATE & ADVANCED PROCESSES FOR INTEGRATION-GROUPS". It kind of implies that there's a "BEGINNING PROCESSES FOR INTEGRATION-GROUPS", but I haven't been able to find it. Does anyone have a copy? If so, could you contact me off-list and email it to me?


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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 26, 2010 07:37PM


FYI--there have been a few MKP trolls posting here before.

Various groups have encouraged trolling this message board.

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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: Christa ()
Date: June 28, 2010 01:57PM


I don't need articles, I live my life that way. I work in a very male dominated industry. You missed my point. Which was that he listened to these men, who he barely know,s who did not know his son,

The articles in the literature don't just describe this phenomenon, they explain the reasons for it, and occasionally ways to confront it. Some readers of this forum might be interested in that. Part of the reason he listened to these men he barely knows is that they ARE men. The other part of the reason has to do with the powerful persuasion/influence techniques these groups use. There are many posts about those techniques on this site, most written by Anticult.

Agreed again you missed my point. Anticult indicated that someone was making a lot of money - others have suggested the various structures I listed. My point was that I have seen no evidence of all this money being out there.

I have stated since my first post that I was not buying it - and I have since said I agree that MKP is certainly an LGAT - and that I am seeing it as destructive.

I didn't miss your point, which is that since you don't have any evidence MKP makes large sums of money, those sums must not exist, and anyone who presumes they do have money is paranoid. This strikes me as an odd point, because it didn't take Anticult long to find a great deal of evidence MKP is making money. And even if he hadn't (and I admit what he found surprised me; LGATs hide money so well professional investigators have a tough time finding evidence of it) the default assumption with an LGAT must be that they make money and they hide it well. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, especially not when you're talking about an cash and an LGAT.

The broad intent of my previous post, the one you quoted, is to show that whether or not an LGAT makes a lot of money, and whether or not anyone can find evidence, money-- not self-help, spiritual growth, or relationship advice, but money -- is the reason LGATs exist. LGATs are structured to funnel any money they make to the top people, and that's their only purpose. The self-help information they present is camouflage and nothing more. I think it's useful to know that.

Shout-out to Anticult: Never change, bro! First of all, I'm amazed that complete strangers who are here looking for free help would have the temerity to tell you how they think you should be and what you need to do so that they will feel comfortable benefiting from your freely offered wisdom. It's great to know that these new posters are well-equipped to advise others on changes they need to make, but why is it any of their business? It's inappropriate, insulting, weird, and yes, to me, seems suspect.

Your blunt, honest prose is a much-needed antidote to the mushy equivocation most people respond to these very dangerous groups with. LGATs are a serious threat to the health, wealth, and happiness of vulnerable people, and it's important to take a strong stand.

I'm very grateful you share your knowledge here, and I'm aware that the people making comments about you have absolutely no idea how bad this industry is. You're an invaluable resource. Thank you.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 02:01PM by Christa.

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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: curiousnycgirl ()
Date: June 28, 2010 08:09PM


Thank you for your insight and various corrections (and slaps) of my inputs. As I have said previously I will limit my input going forward to my personal experiences.

Based on my personal experience I have yet to see evidence of large amounts of money being collected/amassed by MKP - perhaps we have different views of the definition of the word large when it comes to money.

Yes I am on these boards looking for free input and advice, yet I am feeling extremely belittled, invalidated and at times patronized. Clearly your participation here is merely to give yourselves a soapbox from which to hear your own voices. Rather than to help others who are actually experiencing negative impacts on our lives from these damaging organizations.

Were you to actually stop belittling those of us who are less knoweldgable you would see that if anything we are proving your points.

All the best to you

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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 28, 2010 08:32PM


No one has "belittled" or "invalidated" you.

But your last post was a personal attack, which is against the rules.

Frankly, you seem to be in denial. And when someone tells you something that you don't want to know you become upset.

The bottom line is that MKP is an LGAT with a deeply troubled history of complaints, bad press and alleged personal injuries. The wrongful death lawsuit linked to MKP was settled out of court, which is deeply damaging information about MKP.

MKP makes money and Bill Kauth is paid money.

The critical analysis of the MKP manual on this message board demonstrates that the group knowingly manipulates its participants through what can be seen as coercive persuasion techniques.

If you wish to continue to engage in denial about these points, perhaps this message board is not a place that will make you feel good.

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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: curiousnycgirl ()
Date: June 28, 2010 10:11PM

Moderator -

Thank you for posting my last reply, despite your feelings that it is an attack, for which I once again apologize. Perhaps I am feeling overly sensitive due to what's going on in my personal life and that has made me feel attacked here, however in rereading I continue to feel that we have gone off topic in suggesting others are poorly informed (guilty - that's why I came here), definding MKP, and/or in denail.

I would very much like to find more evidence, in order to gain greater understanding, of the most egregious things you cite in your post specifically the history of complaints, bad press and alleged personal injuries. Every time I google these things a lot of stories about the same incident comes up - or stories written by journalists who "snuck" into the weekend for the purposes of reporting and/or laughing at the silliness of it all (their words not mine).

The issue of money is at best tertiary to me - the issues listed above are the heart of the matter. I totally and completely agree that the wrongful death lawsuit is a tragedy of tremendous proportions - and what I am reading here, especially the analyses of the MKP manual certainly lead one to believe that this group is guilty of some of the very worst manipulation of it's participants one can imagine. So where can I find more of these facts? This group appears to be targeting a very specific portion of the population and engaging in very dangerous activities.

Below is a copy from a post above:
"But waiting until after people have been indoctrinated in an ManKind Project 48 hour "brainwashing" session, is waiting too long.
MKP is using extremely harsh and powerful techniques on these men, deliberately. They are deliberately using deception and bait-and-switch, to get people to attend, to they can be bushwacked. That is the MKP plan. "

But what is the purpose of the MKP plan? What are they trying to achieve with their bushwacking? I've heard first hand accounts of how this group has saved some marriages and has damaged and destroyed others. Is that their plan? To eliminate certain women from the lives of MKP men? Surely there must be more to it.

Perhaps the reason I am having trouble is that I am reading a lot of opinions with very few facts. I am confident that the folks who are postiing here have formed their opinions based on very specific facts - I guess I am asking that they help ME find these facts as well. I am not denying they exist I am simply trying to find them.

This board is the only site I found that gave other concrete examples of the effects of the MKP on real lives. Which is why I came here and why I thought I could perhaps contribute by relating how this group is having an impact on my own life. Unfortunately so far I have not contributed anything unique or terribly valuable I guess - and I've certainly stepped on a few toes - again apologies.


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Re: Mankind project
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 28, 2010 10:27PM


The facts are there, but you either have chosen not to deal with them and/or try to spin them in whatever way you can to minimize them.

This is essentially engaging in denial not dialog.

And denial is not the purpose of this message board.

This message board is essentially here for people hurt by controversial groups and movements, some called "cults."

MKP has hurt people and remains controversial.

If you have read everything here and consider it "a lot of opinions with very few facts"--maybe it's time for you to move on.

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