I have read the rules and the last couple of years of entries. At your suggestion I have just re-read his entries and the responses. I see name calling toward "floatingfreebear" from SeekingTruth (calling his perceptions "crap") and AntiCult (calling his perceptions "bullshit"), but not from him. I note that you warned him early on about staying on topic, but you didn't mentioned that again. I see many many examples throughout these pages of redundency and questionable "on topic" entries, so I don't think that could have been the problem.

I greatly respect the overall goal of the RRI in drawing attention to the subverse power of cults and I was surprised to see what appeared to me to be an informative exchange cut off. As a new participant here, I would like to be assured regarding what rule was broken as it looks like he was just a minority opinion.

lcarter497:

"floatingfreebear" was here as an apologist to spin whatever for MKP.

His posts became redundant.

He also fit the definition of an "Internet troll."

If you came here to spin for MKP endlessly like he did you may be banned too.

I have read this thread in it's entirety and first and foremost I want to thank everyone who has contributed. Now to let you know what brought me here.

My boyfriend of 5+ years and I broke up for three months in December - mostly due to the fact that he had become very hurtful/hateful and resentful to/of me and was unwilling to change/apologize. During our break his best friend told him about the MKP NWT weekend. Apparently his wife told him that either he attend the weekend as a first step toward fixing their marriage, or she was gone - and that their relationship was 10X better than ever since the weekend. My boyfriend signed up as a first step toward self improvement and left for his weekend yesterday afternoon.

He knew I had been researching this organization, and he knew I had concerns - mostly based on what I've read here. I chose not to share the details of what I've read, for the same reason the MKP folks (and his best friend) don't. I felt that for the weekend to have the most impact on him, he needed to experience it. However I did share that I was concerned that he would come back more resentful than before. He laughed me off.

I asked him if he was driving up on his own - nope he was car pooling. I asked him to please let me knowhe got there ok, BEFORE he got out of the car - that didn't happen.

Last night I got an email from his best friend telling me to be supportive and that this weekend was going to be very rough on my boyfriend, but that in the end he and we would be stronger and better for it. My answer was that I remain hopeful and that if it brings us closer together I would be eternally grateful. However I sit here worried if he will actually come back to me, or pull further away.

I guess I am posting to share/document our experience with the MKP - whatever it ends up being. At the very least it will be my contribution to your data on the impact of this group. Thanks for letting me share, I'll be back.

Good luck with your boyfriend.

My husband did the weekend a few weeks ago. I'm deeply hurt and troubled that:
1. The organization requires secrets be kept in a marriage
2. Anyone thinks it would be less "sacred" if it were shared (what does that say about me?)
3. He seems to be untroubled by secrets between us

I have been alternately deeply saddened, frightened, and furious since his return. It's been a barrier to my being able to welcome him home or anything new that came from the weekend to grow. Don't forget that you're having an experience too (this is something that MKP ignores entirely -- I almost want to start a support thread for MKP partners). I hope you deal with secrets better than I do, and that it turns out to be positive for you and him.

Got my hands on the weekend manual, and an answer to why it has to be secret:

Quote
1998 New Warrior Initiation Adventure Protocol Book
All of the processes we do are secret.

It doesn't work to share it with others.

Especially women, they wouldn't understand men's ritual.

NOW I'M PISSED!

At least I know how to use an apostrophe...

Hi curiousnycgirl
I am curious to know how your boyfriend's experience went that weekend, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
I was on the other side of the fence wandering aimless at 35, doing good professionally but my life wasn't what I wanted it to be. Married to my high school sweetheart, was just about to walk away. So I went to MKP without any reasearch and expectation, in a way I've applied "what's the risk"... I was blown away, and I hope it helped me re-prioritise what's important. I compare this with a manual for life - most things do come with a user-guide / manual this day. For me, it's always been a bit difficult to bridge the gap between rational and metaphysical.
I am aware of the controversy surrounding this organisation, and have asked myself seriously if I can see any cult patterns. I believe that, due to the way the organisation is structured, perhpaps the experiences differ from cell to cell, and I belive that two other factors play a very important role in one's experience: the stage of disperation and the pre-set expectations. For me, I was at the point where there was no visible way forward...
If you don't mind sharing your experience of your boyfriend after the training, it would be appreciated...

Regards
Observing Wolf

Hi
Having been a participant, I can't say I've seen or have been made aware of any enforced secrecy other then ensuring the processes are not shared with people that have NOT participated yet by MIGHT be participating in the future... as the weekend will not have the same impact.
This kind of reinforces my theory that the cells migh have slightly different rules depending on where they are located.
I have shared everything with my wife and no-one seems to have a problem with it - moreso, the Igroup (MKP follow-up forum) I participate in is rather family oriented...
I just wonder if it works differently in the Sourthern hemisphere :o)
Regards,
Observing Wolf

ObservingWolf:

Before posting again you might want to read this thread from the beginning.

There is quite a lot here.

Specifically, the analysis of the MKP manual and how it seems to parallel coercive persuasion techniques.

The secrecy at MKP appears to be more about manipulation than anything else.

That is, keeping the participant ignorant of what is actually going on.

MKP is quite "controversial" and has a deeply troubled history of serious complaints, bad press and a wrongful death lawsuit, which was settled out of court.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Based upon its history and the manual examined on this thread I would not recommend MKP to anyone for anything.

Thankfully there are more credible support groups, counseling provided by licensed professionals and continuing education through accredited colleges and universities that offer a safer alternative than MKP.

rrmoderator
Thank you for your reply. While I have not read the entire thread yet, I am aware of the controversy, lawsuit and bad press out there.
I trust your organisation bases the opinions on research and facts, hence I am interested to understand more.
All I can state from my side is my experience and my personal (current) opinion. I am not advocating anything, and me visiting the forums is for understanding more about others experiences with MKP, thus hopefully enabling me to detect (ahead of time) any similar circumstances that could jeopardise myself and my family. I do appreciate people's contribution to this forum - especially if the newcomers are not let into the core of the organisation.
From my side, I yet have to be asked by the men I meet with to do anything - contribute financially, recruit others, keep anything else secret but the processes from the NWTA weekend. This said, it's been only a few months since my NWTA weekend experience, so I guess time will tell.
I will try to read more and post less until I fully understand and appreciate the situation MKP put others in - I merely wish to read others experiences with the organisation. On the other hand, I cannot deny my own perception of the organisation so far.
Kind regards,
Observing Wolf

I actually can say from what I've read (and being no fan of MKP at this point), that it does seem like individual local groups, and i-groups within them, seem to be pretty free to make adjustments as they like. This seems to hold up within MKPs own literature as well. Even the very detailed prescription for every action over the weekend has a few places where people can decide how they'd like to handle some things (e.g. the chicken). And there is a reference in this article:

Quote
http://mensstudies.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/mkp-survived/
Kauth was clearly the most important presence within MKP, but he believed strongly that the programs would only grow if managed under local leadership. While he, Tosi, and Hering had disproportionate control in the early years, they found ways to flatten the hierarchy as the organization expanded. What resulted was a presbyterian polity, something analogous to the United States government’s balance of powers. In 1991 the organization established a board consisting of one voting representative from each center. In 1993 an “executive training director” was appointed to ease the burden on local leaders, and after that numerous “chairs” were added as an executive branch. Certification of leaders was established, as was the writing of the “Governance and Council” guidelines. As one leader of the movement conceded, “To become bureaucratic is inevitable.” By creating a federation that governed both locally and nationally, the MKP adopted polity that had shown itself viable in America.

(Also don't miss the OT Robert Bly quote in this article too.)

Even within this local organization, things seem to vary widely. I've been talking, a LOT, to several of the men involved. When I discuss how upset I am with the process, the feeling of having secrets imposed on my marriage by my husband and this organization without my knowledge or acceptance, the sort of fumbling-16-year-old-boy ineptness of addressing the women who are these men's partners, I get very different responses from different men even within the same i-Group. Some minimize my concern, shrug and say, "It's just details." Others are quite defensive of the "sacred" nature. Still others say, "I think he should tell you, if it's causing you pain. It's just cooler if it's secret, it's not that big of a deal." I've gotten each of these responses from more than one man locally. (These last being my favorite.)

So all that is just to say that I do think that a great deal of the value or harm that comes with MKP is entirely about what those local men are like. The fact remains for me that I think an important part of my marriage is in the hands of people I've never even seen, much less know well at all.

Now we are discussing PIT training, and I have piles more to research tonight. >sigh<